A new approach

After learning that the mets in my liver were "mostly" garden variety prostate cancer, we discussed several treatment options moving forward, and decided to try a monthly injection of high dose testosterone, then allowing the T to return to zero before the next dose , having to confuse the cancer and finally get the PSA to decline. Most recent PSA was 4937. Remarkably, I continue to feel fine, pain free and plenty of energy, good appetite through 22 cycles of various chemo. Will test PSA again in 2 weeks and have fresh scans in a month before another T injection. Anaybody else try this treatment?

21 Replies

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  • called BiPolar Androgen Therapy...good chance it will work

  • Good Luck, You are much braver than I.

  • thank you for sharing G, I am starting my 6th round of Taxotere on Tuesday will have a blood test and see what's happening with my psa , PSA has been rising slowly , showing signs of not working so well anymore, I am interested in your case because you are slightly ahead of me, I too will be trying another chemo drug soon and then it will be on to experimental territory and test trials, so.. we must continue to fight, I still have a few good day's here and there, that make it worth the fight.

    thanks again, it's good to hear from you.

    take care.

  • Good luck you are a brave soul.

  • I got 4 months of good results from bipolar androgen therapy - reduction in size of lymph nodes, stabilization of bone mets, 80% drop in PSA. BUT, liver mets continued to grow during that period, so be sure to monitor carefully.

  • Thanks. We plan to rescan at the end of the first month to see if it has impact on liver mets.

  • regarding BAT -

    yikes. PSA from what to what, if I may ask. And where did you get it done.

    did you stop because you felt that you got enough benefit, or feared that you were pushing it too far?

  • Most recent PSA was 4938. Previous was 3660. Stopped chemo (docetaxel + carboplatin) because liver Mets were growing while lymph was shrinking and bones were stable.

  • oh sorry. I was asking Nijon. I thought my comment was right underneath his and I didnt need to say that. Wrong I guess.

  • My PSA went from 258 to 55, ALP had a similar drop. But, scans after 4 months showed ny liver mets were growing and PSA started inching back up. So, we switched to docetaxel. I'm being treated by Dr. Mark Stein at Cancer Institute of NJ. The BAT trial is based at Johns Hopkins.

  • Njjon (oh new jersey, Jon)

    interesting! Did you go to Johns Hopkins? Talk to Denmeade or hear about the theory behind the treatment. Many people, as you know, say it is dangerous, as it may/will reinvigorate cells that are dozing off.

    Any comments are quite welcome.

  • I know my doctor (University of Washington/Seattle Cancer Care) works with another oncologist here who wrote one of the articles about bipolar therapy. He was previously at JHU and participated in the study. They would not have recommended me for the therapy if I had any pain.

  • there seems to be an unofficial conenction between Seattle and Johns Hopkins based on people who have moved. The Plerixafor phase 0 study, based at JH, is also being done in Seattle. Low key. I'd recommmend you talk to your Seattle doctor about it, just out of curiosity, and for the fun of it.

    No pain because it just might have made the pain worse? So I assume it might make anything worse. symptoms come late to prostate cancer I thought. The whole BAT is a little hard to figure, but getting some results, so there's that.

  • I did not go to Johns Hopkins. I did read several articles that have been published about BAT, and the theory behind sounded interesting. I was part of a trial of Enzalutamide vs. BAT. I was initially randomized to the Enzalutamide arm, which, since I had been treated with Abiraterone, proved, not surprisingly, to be a waste of time due to cross-resistance. When I switched over to the BAT arm, I got immediate positive results on blood markers, but as I noted, when we did scans several months later, my liver mets had progressed. So, no cure-all, and I suspect they will learn more about when and when not to use BAT.

  • We will scan at one month. Since my liver mets were growing on prior treatment, that is a concern, especially since stains indicated some neuroendocrine cancer.

  • I think you must still have your prostate. There must be a lot of prostate cells creating PSA and dumping it into the blood. I wonder if the PSA levels are by now more a measure of the fluctuation of the leakiness of the prostate gland than a count of the number of active prostate /cancer/ cells.

    I wonder what the PSA blood level goes to in a healthy person after a biopsy.

    Is there some way to "re-seal" the prostate. ... HIFU, SPACEoar, glue

    The thought would be that a leaky prostate also releases more CTCs.

  • Gecrellen:

    Please keeps us posted on your progress.

    And good luck.

    Joseph

  • Update...it has been a challenging week. For the first time since diagnosis 4 years ago and sailing through many treatments, including Zytiga, Xtandi, and 22 cycles of various chemo with no pain or fatigue, I have had quite a bit of pain and stiffness in my back and hips since Monday, along with a couple of short bouts of nausea, plus I believe the lymph tumors in my neck and groin are growing already. Doctor says to keep monitoring, but thinks we stay the course until I get fresh blood tests next week. At least Advil helps alleviate the pain without narcotics. Unless he PSA takes a huge drop or scans in 3 weeks show great improvement, I expect this will be only a 1-month experiment.

  • Hi thanks for the update. I am sorry to hear about the pain issues. I have my fingers crossed for you. You are a true warrior.

    Best regards

    Bill Manning

  • I feel obligated to report that conditions have changed again. The pain I experienced last week is gone, and I once again feel normal, looking for other alternatives in case the blood tests tomorrow and/or scans in two weeks indicate BAT is not working.

  • Good news

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