For me, executive dysfunction is probably one of the most difficult symptoms of ADHD to convey to others. It just sounds so bizarre and unreasonable.
I was thinking about this the other night, and I had a thought about an experience I think most people have encountered that has some similarities to executive dysfunction.
It reminds me of the sensation one gets when there is a word you're trying to remember that feels like it's on the "tip of your tongue." That sense, that no matter how hard you try to remember it, it's simply out of reach. You can't will yourself into remembering, guilt yourself into remembering, even threaten yourself into remembering it. And of course, most of us are familiar with the scenario that after you've stopped trying to force yourself to remember, you will suddenly remember it sometime later (for me, this period ranges from, not long after, to never).
I also experience another kind of executive dysfunction that isn't as clear-cut. And I think this kind of executive dysfunction is probably more common. It's the experience that as your mind approaches the point of activating and choosing to perform the task, the incline of that path grows rapidly until you're facing a vertical cliff, putting it completely beyond your reach. This is somewhat worse, because you can expend a tremendous amount of energy trying to scale that cliff, and in the end you're exhausted without being any closer to starting the task.
This is my attempt to bridge the gap between the neurotypical experience and the one we have as people with ADHD. I'd love to hear your feedback, the more specific you can be, the better. You may have your own way of explaining this, which I would also love to hear!
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mmcaulay
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I'm fortunate that writing is one of the things that "comes naturally," to me. At least in terms of the initial splat on the screen or paper. Going over my writing for mistakes, awkward phrasing is completely energy negative for me, though.
If the post is short enough, I usually have enough residual energy from the first pass, where I just throw down my thoughts, to do some clean up, but not always. I have several "nearly complete" articles I've written on things I'm passionate about, but haven't been able to pull myself together for the editing phase.
One thing that is actually helping me is AI. I use ChatGPT and now Claude as a kind of editor. Editor in the sense of someone who checks your work for more than just typos, grammar mistakes, etc.
At any rate, I hope, as more AI tools are developed, more will be available to mitigate some of the things you struggle with. I'm guessing you've heard of the dyslexia font, but I thought I'd share it, just in case you or others hadn't heard of it. dyslexiefont.com/ I know some folks with dyslexia who swear by it.
The degree of difficulty varies for everyone. In my case, due to dyslexia, I need to concentrate a lot just to write my own name without making mistakes) For writing texts, I use "blocks" from previously saved texts that I have written.
To learn a foreign language within an hour, I have to take medications for attention because of my ADHD.
To motivate myself, I started recording my feeble attempts to learn the English language on video and posting them on YouTube)
Wow. I'm so sorry. I am glad to hear you've been able to use AI to help with some practical things. I work in the field of building programs that use AI as a core part of their functionality. You've given me something to think about, in terms of a specific issue AI might be able to help with.
I don't know what language you speak natively, but it's my understanding there are many quality speech-to-text programs that would allow you to say what you want without having to type it (we're looking at this for my 10-year-old son, who also has ADHD). I know there are some limitations when it comes to languages spoken, though. Sorry if this is lame advice. It's hard to put aside that part of my brain that wants to help and fix things.
Wishing you the best, and if I do end up finding something that might help, I'll send it your way, if you're ok with that.
"ADHD is a disease of Intention" Dr Russel Barkley..Its not that we dont Want to do something, or that we are incapable of doing something, its the fact that the rise in incline of that path to doing something quickly becomes a Wall and we cannot see over it or around it. Then the very idea of acheiving the intention, rapdly becomes SO Overwhelming, we sit at the bottom of the wall, bash our heads against a few times, get frustrated with ourselves and then "OOOH! Shiny Thing!". It is possibly THE most difficult challenge I face everyday, 100 times a day, from waking till sleep, every important decision, every minor task, its utterly crippling and the overwhelm is growing just considering it (which of course leads to the unregulated emotion, the lowering of self esteem, the negative self talk and "OOOH! Shiny Thing!". You have put it eloquently, thankyou for your explanation 👍
One of the adaptations I've made to get through my work day is to arrange my day around the kind of energy impact the task has on me. Some things are energy neutral, I don't totally enjoy it, but it provides enough feedback energy to balance out and be self-sustaining. I'm also very fortunate to have a profession I truly love. So there are parts of my work that are actually energy positive. That is, I get more energy out of the task than I put in. Then, of course, there are things that are completely energy negative. These come in varying degrees (I suppose the whole energy thing is a spectrum, itself), some of which could easily end my day.
I've found that starting the day with an energy positive, or at least neutral task, can help me jump start my day. I use those tasks that are particularly energy positive to provide a kind of momentum and surplus to tackle an energy negative task right after. Now for a controversial bit. I've been programming for 30 years now. I've finally accepted that when I'm in a low energy state, it's literally better for me to do something I like for a while, even if it has nothing to do with getting my job done, than to try to tackle tasks that I know will result in executive dysfunction.
I've found that by using timers or alarms to remind me to wind down my pleasant activity, I can take what I've gained and pick some task that isn't horribly energy consuming, which would have blocked me before. This daily dance has allowed me to deliver high quality work at a rapid pace. I don't know if it works for everyone, but I do think it's important to stop trying to work the way people without ADHD function, as our brains just don't seem to work that way. We need to figure out our own "how" so we can accomplish the "what," of our daily obligations. So, I encourage people to explore ways of engaging in things they actually want to do in their work day. I also think there are some interesting videos out there that can provide some practical advice, as well as reframe the issue a bit, to help us work in ways that benefit everyone.
Thankyou mmcaulay, that is hugely helpful! Not only the logic and video, but also the (reiteration, "so easy to foget!") Point about needing to do things differently to the expected norm and essentially, the futility of trying to 😬 I am still "very young" in my diagnosis, I have a lifetime of "neurotypicaly created and defined" BAD habits to break to become a more effective, focussed and settled "Me" and falling back into routines (that dont work for me!) and not remaining mindful of the absolute Need to deal with things differently, is far too easy, which if course demotivates, creates "the Wall", the overwhelm, the shame, then the dysfunction. I teach that "All behaviour is communication. Behaviours are not always universaly appropriate, but are communication all the same. Behaviours we call Challenging, are challenging to US, so WE are the seat of the challenge, not the behaviour.Ergo, change perpsective/ situation/ geography/ environment, the behaviour becomes more appropriate and less challenging. So what is the communication?".
The same thing can be said of the "Normal" way of doing things, it is challenging. But by changing perspective/approach/expectation, the challenge subsides somewhat.
I need to be more vigilant in keeping this at the forefront of all my thinking (both for me and as a parent). Breaking habits, especially bad ones, is definately challenging! A work in progress, I should start issueing Coins "365 days Neurodiverse", one day at a time eh 👍🧐
So happy to hear you find it useful (and a good reminder of the things you already knew).
I'm 50 now, and I was diagnosed about 3 years ago. So, I'd say I'm also "young" in my diagnosis. These years have honestly been tumultuous, but I've really tried to throw myself into accepting the truth that I must allow for the fact that I will do things differently. And that I need to be skeptical about "productivity" advice, as most of it relies on a neurotypical mind.
I'm still dealing with the guilt of always feeling like I'm working on the "wrong," thing, but when I look back, doing it the way I've discovered 100% producers better results at a faster pace.
Peace and wisdom in finding your own way of working,
Executive function problems are fundamental to ADHD.
I'm sorta sensing that you think we minimize that condition. On the contrary, that's fundamental to the condition. People talk about it all the time on this board.
So say more. I'm not sure I'm getting your point. Meds, therapy, reading, coaching--all of those are about improving our executive function. Also frankly, we have to do a lot of shameless trial and error to minimize our weak executive function (in my experience).
I was only diagnosed about 3 years ago. And I certainly didn't mean to imply anyone in the community is downplaying the condition. As I work to explain these things to others, even in work situations, I try to find links between what most neurotypical people experience and the true nature of what we face. I've often been good at analogies, so I thought I'd share this recent idea and get some feedback. I recognize that I've only recently become aware of the nature of the issue, and while I'm learning as fast as I can, I wanted to see if what I'm suggesting makes sense and might be helpful.
I've read so many comments and heard so many people, just not get how executive dysfunction is possible. They can't imagine there is a space between deciding you really want to do a thing, and being able to activate yourself to do it. For most people, this is seamless. And unfortunately, because it can sound like a more simple lack of motivation, I've found that colors their ability to empathize and understand that in a number of cases, the wall is literally insurmountable. Looking back at my life, I'm now 50, it's become abundantly clear which areas in my life were insurmountable. I worked for so long on these things to try to form good habits. But for these specific things, I found that no habit or rhythm was formed. Every time felt like the first time.
Some of it is really strange. I've been a programmer for 30 years, yet no matter how hard I try, I cannot memorize precise programming syntax. Thankfully, about the time I started, tools became available that are similar to autocomplete for writing, that allowed me to use what I could remember, the gist, and have it fill in the blanks.
So, I apologize for my lack of clarity. You may still find what I'm saying incorrect, which is important to hear.
Here's an analogy I stumbled. I have a buddy who since his late 70s has been noticing (unhappily) that he can't organize his day as well as he used to, that he forgets his priorities during the day and that it takes him a lot of time to figure out logistics of travel and so on.
He knows I have ADHD, and I told him that he was describing declines in executive functioning, which does typically decline as we get older. The funny thing is my buddy (in his early 80s) still has higher executive functioning than I EVER had in my life. When we talk on the phone (yep we're friends who still have telephone talks) he knows exactly how much time he has on his schedule to talk to me. Me, as soon as the conversation gets interesting, time and future tasks just disappear from my brain planner. My planner goes to sleep.
I had a relative who was suffered a stroke. I got into her apartment afterwards. A total mess. It was clear that she was having trouble coping and organizing her life. Overall cognitive decline AND definite decline in executive functioning.
I was talking to my wife about the first analogy I gave about having a word or phrase on the tip of your tongue, and one of the things we agreed on was how common the experience was. As well as the general sense of powerlessness that goes along with it. At least, in that sense, it feels very much like what I go through when dealing with executive dysfunction. I'm completely powerless to "make" it happen. I think I need to refine it a bit, and perhaps do better at highlighting the emotional aspects of it, but I do hope, as I learn from everyone, I'll be better equipped to share what we experience.
My real hope is that in time, we can diminish the stereotypical misunderstandings about it and improve a broader degree of empathy for those dealing with ADHD, or other "invisible" conditions.
Oh my goodness - the vertical cliff ….expenditure getting there - without actually doing anything towards whatever…I so relate!!
I’ve often said I make going over a molehill look like climbing Mount Everest - it looks pathetic to both me and the outsider. On the surface - at the time - even I can’t get my head around why it’s such a struggle - it doesn’t ‘look’ logical. This is probably the problem which both disables and infuriates me the most.
And, unfortunately, often guilt inducing. The self shaming, to see if that will be enough to "make" it happen. While I was only diagnosed about three years ago, I can look back at my life and see how much difficulty ADHD caused, and the difficulties I caused for myself in trying to overcome it.
I'm finally starting to come to the place of flat out acceptance. There are just some things that I will not be able to do sometimes (and some things I just can't do. My memory causes certain issues that I've never been able to overcome). I'm doing much better at stopping myself from wasting the energy when I begin to recognize the signs it's going to be one of those times.
From what I can tell, in the medical profession, there still seems to be this bias that with the right tools and willingness to dig deep, you can predominantly overcome this. I wrecked myself trying for most of my life. And maybe it's true for some people, depending on their symptoms and severity, but I've found these treatments lean towards the "average," instead of the personalized care I think is required for the neurodiversity that exists in humanity.
I'm learning to let go when I see the pattern and try to find something that is energy positive to do. It's not easy, as the guilt can be intense (I'm also a people pleaser and overthinker, which seems to magnify this effect). But I've decided, at 50, I'm done. I need to focus on doing my work the way that works for me, so I have the energy for my son and wife. I've never really been ambitious career wise, though I've thankfully had a pretty good career as a programmer. But now more than ever, I'm growing in this area of acceptance, so that I can do other more productive things. Far from perfect, but it's loads better than it's been for the majority of my life. Good luck in your own battles!
I’m 48, and the last months I’ve decided I’m done too.
I’m now seeking to live a daily life that I can do comfortably - I’m sick of trying and striving with ever decreasing results - and feeling rubbish and demoralised in the process.I found out about having ADHD 10 years ago - I thought I’d be able to live a more full life than I have - even though my mental health is light years from where it was. For which I’m truly grateful. But I am done trying to ‘improve’ myself further….because it never ends, and I’m never going to get or be where I wanted to.
I’m realising I need a very basic programme to run my life. There’s the things I like, can do and am good at. This is what I want to settle with. I’m being quite ruthless with the things/ dreams I’m letting go of. I’m quite certain this is the way forward for me now even though it feels counterintuitive. I’ve taken enough land to live in. It might not look much but it’s been hard won.
I suspected I had ADHD for many years - but was officially diagnosed at 60 - which has been very helpful especially with giving myself a break for those days when my functioning doesn't make sense... 'why can't I do.....'.
One of my sons was dx in his 30's and takes medication which has significantly helped him - and my ex-partner has undiagnosed ADHD - and I would say that ADHD significantly contributed to my divorce.. we had different types of ADHD and our lives raising six kids (with varying ADHD types in them as well) was exciting, chaotic and challenging - full of adventures and creativity (our halloween costumes were amazing..the birthday cakes and parties.. well, think 'phantom of the opera cakes' and Harry Potter themed parties with our own radio controlled basilisk and helium balloons with magical lights inside)... and the art and music and conversations were /are something we all love. Not many families can keep up with a many faceted fast paced conversation like we have. So there were many positives.
I don't take medication cause of high blood pressure. And... I have a masters degree in counselling. Once I paired the ADHD with a retropective on my life.. and applied many of the cognitive processing strategies specifically with ADHD in mind, it was so very helpful - and looking back I found that I had been working around many of the day to day issues - some successfully and some not. I could write lots.. but here are my current day to day and previous work strategies (off work at the moment).
I have at least one good hour after a strong cup of coffee in the morning. So I schedule things like visits, appointments, chores in the mornings. Any 'writing' gets slotted in here. If I have a good day (more physical or thinking energy) then I consider it a bonus. If I have a bad day (can't even put a dish in the dishwasher)... I try to let myself off the hook.
Recyling is a nightmare for me.... I buy large construction garbage bags.. and throw ALL GARBAGE in them and take them to the dump (live in the country so I can do this)... I don't allow the environmentalists to shame me about this.. it is how I cope with getting garbage dealt with. These same environmentalists (lol.. my collector/hoarder ex is one of them... would save every piece of garbage.. and fish out the things I would try to hide at the bottom of the garbage..lol.. one of our ADHD marriage fails). I have stressed for many years about a messy house and boxes of 'things to take to the recycling depot' on my porch/under sink etc. so this is my work around.
When my kids were in school we had a blue box in the kitchen JUST for school newsletters permission slips etc... every few months (lol.. maybe six months).. I would take the bottom paper out and recycle.. this way I could easily find the most recent ones if we needed.
Lol... more than once I have tried to drop my kids off for school on a PD day...
I had a policy NEVER to sign any school things my kids brought to me within half an hour of leaving in the morning. If needed.. I could phone the school and give verbal permission.
For housework or projects, I have found that wearing headphones and playing certain soundtracks (hans zimmer epic movies like intersteller, lion king or old musical scores, julie andrews sound of music) on repeat can give me focus to get a project/housework done. I have sometimes listened to the same soundtrack for many hours. Works like a charm.
My husband could do dishes any time of the day. Not me. I had to have one day a week to do housework. For dishes... it worked best if we all did them right after dinner.. otherwise whoever was on dishes would still be there at 9 at night.. we took turns choosing the music and turned it up and ALL SANG to it while we were doing the dishes.. had to be a singable track..i.e. abba, spice girls, les miserables, taylor swift 'red', lion king, beauty and the beast.. old beatles or stone.. you get the idea... but.. many times.. dishes were done in the morning berfore the kids got up.
I try to have a place for everything - when I am hyper focused.. my projects are often about organization ... spices, plastic containers in the fridge that have a purpose ... one for lettuce, one for carrots.. etc.. I put everything in jars... this saves old packages of things in the cupboard spilling everywhere.
I go in to work on a sunday when no one is there to do paperwork. And, if you have a non-ADHD colleague that can help you with getting some of the routine paperwork things done - enlist their help if you can... maybe trade off other things you are more suited to do..for example.. I work best in crisis situations.. and can put together a group on the fly.. .
I NOW know.. to put a note at the top of a piece of paper during a meeting NOT to talk too much and I've been a supervisor/manager for years and am often in charge of these very meetings. Once I knew I had ADHD and read up on it.. I realised that at around the 45 minute mark in a meeting I am up behind my chair.. or talking too much.. so I try to be mindful of this now.. I schedule short meetings or have an out after an hour.. and so on.. but being aware that long meetings can go badly for me.. is important.
It took me many years to understand I have to do this.. but I have most bills on automatic payment. Even if your credit card bill varies.. set it up for a minimum payment - you can always add more if you want or need to.
Amazon is not your friend. Well.. maybe sometimes.
I do all my laundry at one time.. usually once every two weeks. I have several laundry baskets... one is for clean laundry and that often just stays there and is never taken out and folded or put away. One is only for underwear and socks. If I can't do laundry.. I can sometimes do just that one.
I have HOOKS not hangers for the coats and clothes I wear most often.
I have a spare car key - that I make myself put back if I have to use it (works for being late for appointments and not being able to find your keys at the last minute)
Keep baskets in your car for junk.
I have soaker hoses and timers for my garden.
read Sari Solden's books on ADHD..even if you are a man. I cried for hours after I read her book.. all those years of shame and dismay and beating myself up. I now have a more positive outlook on my superpowers and my superfails.
My son pointed out that I leave every cupboard door in the kitchen open (lol.. even the fridge) .. I now try to pay attention to this and shut them.. I also try to pay attention to the things on the floor that I step over.. I'm just unconscious about this, but now I try...
And.. best of all.. since my diagnosis.. I let myself have 'squirrel days'.. these are the days where I let myself be distracted.. go down information tunnels on the internet... do what ever I feel like doing.. even sitting on the couch.. or no dishes.. no shame days. As far as I can tell.. shames blocks the good neurotransmitters in your brain .. making your access to dopamine worse..
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to share your accumulated wisdom. Some of these things sound, oh so familiar. I'll check out the book, as I tend to be more from Venus than from Mars ;).
It's also been a great relief to be diagnosed. To finally have some perspective on why some things were just not possible.
I'm also an overthinker who's lived most of his life in the future, constantly running through scenarios. It's only been in the last year or so I've been able to bring my focus in and stop trying to keep track of it all. I always felt the need to reach out and "touch," these future events. Like, I always needed to check in to make sure nothing had changed or needing adapting to. But it destroyed me. I found I emotionally lived through thousands upon thousands of worst case nightmare scenarios. I thought that's what I had to do to plan. And the compulsion was pretty strong. Now I bring my focus in to the day, sometimes even the moment on bad days. I focus on my only responsibility right now is to breath. I don't have to do anything else, right in this instant. That has been very freeing for me.
I think much of the shaming out there simply comes from people not being able to understand the difference between what they were told were bad character traits (which they can sometimes be for neurotypical people) and the neurological reality of people with ADHD who can't resolve those issues.
And, of course, those issues are really about others expectations. You should do this. You shouldn't do that. Most of us have been raised to feel guilty in those scenarios, and certainly project guilt on to others when we see it. "Why can't you pull yourself together like I had to and just get on with it." I think this is exacerbated by some cultural tendencies to refuse to accept that we aren't all fundamentally the same. And that other people's difficulties (and successes) are all down to the character of the person, rather than, often unseen, hurdles (or help) or outright barriers in those situations.
We all need to have more grace for each other. Accept that we can't see what the other person's reality is. I truly believe, if we can help society move towards a more empathetic world view, all of us with "invisible," conditions would be far more accepted and accommodated.
My biggest message to others is that you can’t work harder and just magically fix those things. My husband was expressing frustration today about my waiting to leave until the last minute for an appointment. I had an alarm set for 10 minutes before I needed to be backing out of the garage. I still left late. Why? Because I was having a fun conversation with my MIL and didn’t want to stop the conversation. Sigh. I definitely have trouble task shifting from a preferred activity. I finally made my husband watch Dr Thomas Brown’s excellent video on ADHD. It explains how people with ADHD aren’t trying to be this way and truly can’t control this issue. He also explains that we are inconsistent, so sometimes we do certain things better and others worse. That really frustrates our peers, because they think, “if you did X on Monday, why can’t you do X today?”
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