Hi, same old story about low self-esteem due to ADHD and having coping mechanisms to get through life. Following marriage, things took a downward spiral especially after kids, and now we're living like separate strangers whose sole purpose is to live for the children. It's tragic when we were supposed to be partners but I've continually hurt her with my emotional outbursts that it feels like I'm an emotional abuser and perpetrator, and she's the victim. So she's putting her walls up and making herself impenetrable, so she won't be hurt anymore in the senseless loop.
She has ADHD too, but I guess she has learned to cope with it way better than me.
Any one else is in the same predicament, and how do you get out of the woods on this one? I have already sought professional help but the appointment with the specialist is many months away. Need to find an interim solution and I'm desperate to save my marriage, or at least have a fruitful marriage with my wife.
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Is your appointment with a Marriage Counselor? Is the appointment for you and her ? If not you need to make a appointment for you and her with a marriage counselor.
and the marriage counselor should understand ADHD otherwise they may take a neurotypical approach that you could control those flash outbursts if you only wanted to. We know that is not true for ADHD but if the counselor doesn't and your wife doesn't - the chances of success go down in my opinion
Even when a person has ADHD. They have to learn how to live with it. They cannot blame everything on their ADHD or other issues. Please do not misunderstand. I know having ADHD makes things more difficult. But that does not mean there is nothing they can do because they have ADHD. Having a issue(s) does not mean we are not responsible for our behavior.
Yes, I agree. Having an ADHD diagnosis doesn't give a pass for bad behavior. A diagnosis gives some understanding, and points in the direction of help that's available.
For anyone, no matter how severe the ADHD, there can be improvement. It might require medication, counseling, coaching, and accomodations...but it will take intention, effort and persistence.
It's also important to interview the marriage counselor, to find out what their stance is. There are actually marriage counselors who are not focused on trying to help save a marriage, but rather will focus on trying to end a marriage as amicably as possible.
Or, in the case of a licensed marriage and family therapist that I consulted when I was trying to save my marriage, some can actually act to hasten a divorce. The therapist spent 45 minutes of my 50 minute session with him trying to browbeat me into being the first one to file for divorce, instead of answering any of my questions about how to try to save the marriage. It was abusive behavior on his part.
I now know that you have to INTERVIEW the marriage counselor first, to find out what they believe. The advice that I later received is to ask in that pre-counseling interview, "who do you see as the client: the one spouse or other spouse...or the marriage?" According to that advice, the best answer is that "the marriage is the client."
I agree it is vital to have a marriage counselor that realizes how important marriage is. There are priests (Episcopal and Protestant) that are also educated and trained in marriage counseling. They realize divorce is very rarely the answer
I’m sorry to hear you’re in this position, I myself am in a similar position, my ADHD is impacting our lives and our marriage. I know the specialist wait is ridiculous. I’m sorry I’m not being a lot of help, more than anything I’m trying to say you’re not alone! Hang in there friend.
This was a major stressor on my marriage as well. Somehow we muddled through in spite of 38 years of outbursts that my wife couldn't understand. I guess raising our daughter glued us together in the earlier years, but somehow, thank my lucky stars, we hung in. I also traveled extensively for work which reduced friction, I guess, but also closeness.
After retirement and many more shared activities, we repaired the relationship. With the diagnosis of ADHD last year things became even better. Even with my first very low dose of medication I was able to gain that couple of seconds that allowed me to almost completely stop the outbursts and inappropriate reactions. Plus, with the awareness that this is ADHD and not hostility or lack of love, we both understand the flashes for what they were.
I hope that you can find tips, techniques, support, medication, whatever that allows you to manage down the outbursts and that the counseling helps you.
I found it important to frankly acknowledge that the outburst is inappropriate and hurts my wife. I am proving that I am attempting to eliminate this and that has gone a huge way towards a very happy marriage now.
In the past, the rejection sensitivity aspect of ADHD would cause me to justify my outburst based on feeling attacked or criticized. Since my wife knew that she wasn't attacking or criticizing, she described it as having to walk around on eggshells to avoid triggering me. Now she understands both the RSD and the emotional disregulation. She is still not okay with the outbursts, but knows I am committed to slashing or eliminating them.
wow. I can’t believe you just described the small progress we have been able to make in our marriage. What you said is exactly what helps. He expresses his desire and shows up some times with thoughtful and heart-felt apology to me for what is being done to me. No defending himself. No blaming me. No saying it’s the ADHD. No. He takes responsibility and nit just says it - he will sometimes stop his reaction in the midst. And rewords or used gentle tone. I see he is trying. That goes a loooooong way. Also his medication was an issue as he didn’t want to take any. But now he manages the ordering and maintains daily doses as he sees benefit and acknowledges. Thank you for sharing here. Wives need to feel safe. Outbursts are scary and no one feels safe in that household. We all do it. But we all wish we didn’t have to deal with the ugliness. Parenthetically, Some have proposed it is a dopamine fix to be outraged. I don’t know if that is universal as opposed to ADHD. I do feel energized but in a negative way. Anyway. Good job!! And good luck to the OP.
What would you suggest a husband to do to make their spouse feel more understood in light of such outbursts? I worry greatly that my wife feels similar to how you may feel, and your line of "Wives need to feel safe" really struck a chord with me. Thanks for sharing your story.
ADHD doesn’t make you emotionally abusive, if she’s telling you that she feels you are emotionally abusive, you need to take a good hard look at that. Get a therapist and dig into that. There’s a difference between having emotional outbursts and disrespecting your spouse’s boundaries and humanity
A psychiatrist decided that I suffer from Bipolar 2 after describing same issues and gave me Lithium which actually works after a period of adjustment.
* This will probably include medication (since most people with ADHD can be treated by one or another medication).
* Counseling or therapy to help deal with emotional issues. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can help (has helped me). Talk therapy has also helped me, but in combination with CBT and mindfulness practice.
* ADHD coaching can help, too.
Both spouses might need individual counseling, as well counseling as a couple.
I also recommend a couples' coaching program. The best one I've heard of is called Marriage Helper (check out their website and YouTube channel, to decide if you think it would help you). Their workshop supposedly has a much higher success rate for couples than most marriage counseling.
Besides that, there are other marriage intensive programs, like one affiliated with Focus on the Family (if you are a Christian couple, this might be meaningful for you). There's one that's Catholic oriented, called Retrouvaille, which also has a good reputation for success.
Each of these programs costs a few thousand dollars to attend (plus travel expenses), but the investment might make a big difference. However, I don't know of any that has a focus on ADHD.
great advice! I was going to post similar comments. MARRIAGE HELPER is amazing! So much free help too! I unfortunately slacked off on doing the work! All over the place trying and never sticking to anything!
But you have the knowledge that you gained, and you know that help is available. Programs like Marriage Helper has give you tools and knowledge, but it is up to you to do the work.
However, even a small change is an improvement over no change at all. The results generally won't appear right away.
So, keep at it. Recognize something that you want to start doing differently, and use the "When-Then" approach. Tell yourself, "when (this happens), then I will (do that)". By using an existing cue for a change you want to make to your behavior, you are putting psychology to work for you.
(The "When-Then" approach is hour "habit-stacking" works to help establish new habits.)
Just make one small change at a time. Don't sweat it if you don't make a new habit right away. Be patient with yourself.
Also, like they teach at Marriage Helper about the PIES, do it for you! Make changes because you want to make them for you, not just for your partner/spouse. It's that interest in being your best self that will help your ADHD mind to get on board with the changes.
☺️ thank you for commenting. I’ve not heard of the technique you mentioned But it makes sense to try. My boggle struggle w depression/adhd is being so scattered. It’s hell! Even doing things I WANT to do, I get sidetracked. I’ve never been someone who has a routine nor ever coming up with one. Even w marriage helper I would start reading or watching video next thing I’m off doing something else Forgetting I was doing something else. Hard to lift yourself up with positive thought when your know that it is not true. I WISH I could have someone with me alllll day and literally live my day with me and keep me on task, teach my brain to work better and how to love myself! My daughter and husband are not interested in any of my stuff. They don’t care to try and understand what and why this has happened or what it feels like to live in my brain.
I feel like giving up a lot but I try to tell myself tomorrow is a new day.
I’m sorry I’m just rambling. Up way too late to be doing this. Thank you again tho on your comments and advice 💕
Are you on ADHD medication? I've found medication to be the best help for working memory.
I've been prescribed stimulant and non-stimulant medications, and both have helped me with my working memory issues.
My working memory seems to be at least 3 times better than it was before I started ADHD medication. It's helped a lot for me at work, for paying bills on time, and with taking care of my kids.
(I still struggle with motivation. It goes up and down a lot. I can get a lot done at work, but have continued to have problems getting up on time, getting out the door on time, and with getting chores done after I get home from work.)
I’ve been on depression meds for 17 years now. Added Adhd meds few years ago. After doing therapy and working with psychiatrist to get meds right I decided to go elsewhere and get tested to figure out what exactly is wrong w me. With hopes of getting treatment and meds that will be best for me. Next week I get results. I’m pretty anxious about it! Had hope before but now the reality of truth is kinda scary!
Can I ask how lack of motivation is for you? I literally can sit on couch thinking of the to dos, even ones I WANT to do and I sit sit sit… try to write thoughts down, or pay a bill, clean out emails… avoidance tasks… sadly my house shows years of that sitting and avoiding! Horrible!
My experience with lack of motivation seems much like yours, when it comes to maintaining my house. (Right now, I have a pile of dishes in the sink and on the counter beside it. You'd think I had a family of 5 in my house, but it's just me, plus the two kids I have 50% of the time. I also have a small fish tank that I need to change the water in, but couldn't bring myself to do all weekend...and laundry that I washed last week that needs putting away.)
When I'm at work (at my job in IT Desktop Support) I get a lot more done. I can be very motivated and timely for some things, mostly the small, quick tasks...but also wanting that seems like an interesting challenge. However, it's very hard to find motivation to do regular, mundane tasks. It's also hard to do things that I've already tried before and struggled with, even though I'd already done most of the work.
It's much easier for me if I'm working alongside someone else, virtual "body-doubling" doesn't work for me. I make a great team player, but I'm not sure great at working solo.
I'll work tirelessly to help other people any day, but I can't muster the energy to take care of more than my basic needs when I'm on my own.
yep we both are living with similar struggles. I too used to have the full sink also! I have actually conquered that issue! I mean not pristine daily, but very little in there. I had found a website called FLYLADY… she helps people get their homes in order… I definitely failed befofe I even started! Shocking right?! Haha. But I did take some simple tasks and try Sink was my focus. My mom always said the state of the kitchen sink sets the mood for the day… it kinda does I’ve realized. So baby steps and focus on just one task… empty sink… trust me it takes time but so worth it.
I noticed if I rinse off dishes before leaving in sink it doesn’t feel like HELL to deal with. That’s how I started to change.even if doesn’t go in dishwasher RINSE IT GOOD. Then I started to wash little things that really doesn’t need to go in dishwasher.. like after buttering toast.. tiny squirt soap use hand real quick sit drying rack or towel. Always hand wash good knives. You get my point… I noticed that the washed items sitting on dry mat and rinsed dishes made the situation feel better. Even tho basically same as before… it’s a change in mindset. In evening I tried to start putting things in dishwasher. Since dishes are rinsed it goes quick! Rinse sink, wash counters down. Tidy up if you’re feeling it. Definitely Put new towel and dishcloth out every nite. It’s feels great to see that fresh towel in the morning. Weird I know but it’s just a sign of accomplishment! Anyway I focused JUST on the sink and dishes mainly. At nite and like is said quick hand wash of things… you will gradually see the change. Now… rest of my house?!?! 💣 lol but damn I’ve got an empty sink and fresh towels!! Hahah
Have you heard of ADDitude.Com? Great site that has helped me a lot to understand allll the quirks, struggles, etc of ADD. Oh I too am always late! Told my daughter mark my words I WILL be late for my funeral!!!! Ever heard of time blindness? I was shocked to read about it! Never imagined anyone else being like me!
Ok I have rambled on too long. Shocking, but I forgot what you wrote that I wanted to respond to! Ugh!!! Sorry if too detailed about the sink. But I do hope that maybe it could help you. Baby steps!
- Difficulty maintaining attention longer than 5 minutes, unless I was very interested in the subject at hand, or I was in hyperfocus.
* DISTRACTIBILITY
- Very easily distracted by almost anything, and once distracted it was hard to turn my attention back to what I was doing before the distraction caught my attention.
* WORKING-MEMORY PROBLEMS
- If I was going to the store without a written list, I could only remember 1 or 2 things; add a 3rd thing to my list, and I'd forget one of the other two.
- For every 10 minutes in conversation, I should typically change topics 5 times, and usually couldn't remember any of the previous topics.
* TIME BLINDNESS
- Often unaware of the passing of time, how much time it was taking me to do things, or how much time I lost while distracted by something.
- Constantly running late to almost everything.
- Misjudge the amount of time it takes to do things.
- "Fluid" sense of time: 5 minutes could feel like an hour, or an hour like 5 minutes.
* PROCRASTINATION
- Much difficulty getting started on things. ("Task-initiation" problems.)
- Spending a lot of effort "preparing" to do the thing, instead of doing the thing. Or, doing all kinds of less important tasks instead of the one I need to do.
Also, constant struggles with:
*TIME MANAGEMENT
* ORGANIZATION
* PRIORITIZATION
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In addition of Inattentive ADHD, I have had ever trait of a similar, often comorbid condition known as Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT):
• Daydreaming excessively *
• Trouble staying alert or awake in boring situations *
• Easily confused *
• Spacey or "in a fog"; Mind seems to be elsewhere *
• Stares a lot
• Lethargic, more tired than others *
• Underactive or have less energy than others *
• Slow moving or sluggish *
• Doesn't seem to understand or process* information as quickly or accurately as others
• Apathetic or withdrawn*; Less engaged in activities*
• Gets lost in thought *
• Slow to complete tasks *
The asterisks mark my particular struggles before starting ADHD meds. The one without an asterisk ("Stares a lot") is the one thing I'd trained myself out of, but it took a few years to do so.
Adderall didn't relieve much of my SCT symptoms, but atomoxetine has treated them very effectively.
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Altogether, medication has effectively treated about 80% of my ADHD and SCT symptoms. I still struggle with developing new skills, even though my Inattentiveness, Distractibility, Working Memory, and Time Blindness are much, much better (nearly at a neurotypical level).
wow it’s like describing me!!! And yet it’s soooo hard to get my husband or family to understand that this IS real! Not lazy (well maybe I am lazy too don’t know!)
I apologize if I asked before.. but what meds do you feel helped you the most? I’ve tried multiple along w depression meds and I’m not sure what will do it, but I still can’t live normal. Been stay at home mom for 17 years… one child, 17, besides not feeling dark depression like most of those years and having desire and DO things (slowly but partially done), life pretty muchseems the same.. wonder if can ever live “normal” again?
I take atomoxetine (a generic of Strattera). My doctor first put me on Adderall XR, which helped me only half as well as atomoxetine does now.
Now, most of the time, the way time passes for me seems much more consistent. 5 minutes usually feels like 5 minutes; an hour usually feels like an hour. (When I hyperfocus, I can still lose track of time.)
Other ways that atomoxetine works for me:
* I am not distracted as easily as I was before
* I can usually maintain my attention on the thing I need to focus on
* My most notable improvement is with my working memory and short term memory, which used to be heavily impaired, but now are much more like a neurotypical person's capability
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I still struggle with motivation, skills, and habits.
I think that part of the reason I do is that I've been going through a mild depression for the last few months. I'm taking an SSRI for that, and it's helping a lot with the depression symptoms, but I still struggle with motivation.
I've had problems with procrastination, prioritization, organization and time management all my life. These issues of mine are because of poorly developed skills. Now, I'm continuing to struggle with them because the old habits are so ingrained in me... it's hard to change the way I've been doing things for decades. (I'm now 48, was diagnosed at 45, and started on my current meds at 46.)
My ADHD symptoms has impaired my development in these areas, because my attention was previously so hampered.
I've gotten help from counseling and coaching, but I know that I won't change unless I put in the work... And I've just been lacking the motivation to change.
So I find myself in a similar situation to OP. However, after years of therapy and multiple opinions from psychiatrists, therapists, and couples therapists, I keep hearing that my spouse may suffer from BPD (borderline personality disorder). I feel ive improved tremendously since my ADHD diagnosis regarding outbursts, but I still get that way from time to time when I feel like I'm being gaslit and pointed to as the source of all our relationship issues. I even wonder sometimes if I have BPD.
I bring it up because some marriage counseling techniques admittedly do not work well and can inadvertently hasten negative feelings in a relationship. It wasn't until I had a side conversation with our latest couples counselor that she said to me that yes, there are certain assumptions made in methods such as "relational life therapy" or other common modes used my the likes of LMFTs. In order for these to be effective, there has to be some realization and understanding of the neurodivergence of both spouses.
I don't look to blame my spouse for my problems here. Not at all, I have plenty to work on. But it has caused some negative habit reinforcement for my spouse by me spending the majority of our dozens of sessions apologizing for my behavior and explaining what I was thinking and avoiding "objectivity battles." In isolation, this is all terrific advice, but if there is never any give and take in terms of relationship responsibility, it can have devastating consequences for the non-BPD spouse.
I recognize how difficult the RSD attributed to ADHD makes patience with a BPD partner that much more difficult. One appointment with a specialist may not solve all your troubles, even after waiting months. And that is scary and frustrating when you're feeling the way you are about your marriage today. Your spouse may also have ADHD, so at the very least, it may help you guys to understand what happens in the brain (science leaning) and/or why you feel some strong feelings because of your ADHD (more in-therapy examples to relate with). Don't expect tons of symptom overlap, I thought I'd find quite a bit more understanding just by learning trademark symptoms.
If your spouse cares about you and your marriage, then you'll have a shot to find your new normal together. Understand your own limiting traits, and work together on a different strategy for problem resolution than what you've tried previously. If I have a tough time trusting my spouse to come up with a time-efficient plan for a day's errands, then I should avoid creating situations in the future where this is the de facto state. If my wife feels she can't trust me to follow through with the simplest of tasks like swapping laundry to the dryer, how can we make a situation work where I am not required to remember to do this action? Is there a different way we can work together to meet the ultimate goal we share in common? This becomes all the more true if you have children in the mix and must trust each other to take care of things after only being told one time.
I'm curious if anyone else has experience with having ADHD and then also a neurodivergent spouse with ADHD or some other condition which challenges the relationship. Just lovely to hear if I'm truly alone or if there might be additional resources people have found helpful in such a situation.
You're definitely not alone. I do think that neurodivergent people are often drawn together.
I know that my ex-wife also has some form of neurodivergence. She has been diagnosed with anxiety or depression at times, and I strongly suspect BPD. (Knowing what I do of her childhood behavior, it's very likely that she would have gotten an ADHD diagnosis based on current diagnostic criteria.) She also recognizes her OCD tendencies, but doesn't have an OCD diagnosis.
I really feel for you. When I'm off my elvanse my emotions run free and anything small thing can send me on one. Luckily my partner of 7 years sees the signs and tells me to go for a walk or upstairs to lay Dow for a bit. But others I've been with in past just didn't understand at all and left me. People don't understand you can't control these outbreaks. And sometime I don't know about you but I like the feeling of being angry. It's like I'm stimulating my adhd with anger instead of a stimulat. I do hope you find a way of sorting your issues out Iver via medication. Exercise like gym and even doing contact sports can help. I've been where you are and I'm so lucky I have a partner who doesn't let my outbreaks faze her. It took till I was on x2 70mg elvanse per day till I could control myself fully and I won't ever look back. I'm so calm everyday now bar the 4 days I take off elvanse each month due to tollorance build up. All the best to you my friend hope it's works out for you
First, congratulations and give yourself a lot of credit for recognizing that you have outbursts. You own it, and you sincerely want the help. That’s a huge thing. Secondly, it takes two of you to work together. You say your wife has her “walls up”. Is that the total silent treatment? That too is a form of emotional abuse. I’m not suggesting that she is an abuser, there isn’t enough information to form an opinion. I only brought that up as a point of discussion in case it might be something to consider, if it was happening. Please know, I’m trying to reason things out to be helpful, not to be mean in any way. I would like to gently suggest perhaps trying online counseling until you can get face to face. Marriage counseling is needed, as you say, and to make it work, it would be wonderful if each of you could become stronger individually. I am only giving you my thoughts because you asked, not saying what is right or wrong. My ADHD gets me into trouble with being very impulsive at times, and saying things the wrong way -at least perceiving that I do, or not explaining myself well, so I tried very hard to get it right, my meaning, that is. I wish y’all the best, and please let us know how you are doing.
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