My daughter is 26 and was recently diagnosed with ADHD. She did OK in school and went to college. No one ever suggested to my wife or me that she might have ADHD, but I'm not too surprised. She's currently going to a therapist, and that's who diagnosed her.
She's been working part-time as an office assistant at a company run by a friend of mine. She doesn't like it. But it's the only time she gets out of the house and interacts with people IRL.
Her dream is to get a job in an area that is extremely competitive and, I'm sorry to say, I don't think that's going to happen. But she's still trying.
She's living at our second house, paying utilities and a token amount of rent.
I'm worried we're enabling her to not work full time.
I don't have the heart to completely cut her loose financially. I think she'd sink, not swim.
Any advice?
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Fett
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I think you might benefit from going to a family therapist (specialists in family dynamics) for wisdom on how best to reach your daughter. Your daughter has a role she's playing in the family system. That role is triggering you most likely (understandably so). But it's nearly impossible to see all this without a really good therapist.
I don't think you need to go long-term. But a dozen appointments with an excellent family systems person ... will help you get clarity and really understand how to anticipate her reactions. You might even bring her along (after you discuss with the therapist).
Likely your daughter is hyper-sensitive to any appearance of a negative judgment from you. And unfortunately you can't fake this. She probably picks up judgment just in your body language--you don't have to say tough words to trigger her.
Hang in there. Tough situation. You're not enabling--that's too simple. I would say think in terms of longer term goals and progress, three years from now, what is realistic to expect. Five years from now, what is realistic to expect.
Aside from this career that she wants (animation), I'm not aware of any goals she has. Also, not many interests. She plays D&D in an online group (she has no friends IRL). She spends almost all her time drawing pictures - she's enjoyed that all her life. It's all anime/fantasy characters.
OK, so she is a real loner. Might be some insight there that allows you to reach her more and might give you some help in knowing how to help her.
Social anxiety--that's what I hear young people talking about a lot these days. Any chance she has that? Also, any chance she is on the spectrum? Some people on the spectrum (not all of course) have trouble connecting with people. Given how much a loner she is, I think you can safely and forcefully push away any fear that you are "enabling" her. Enabling is when you're "helping" someone who doesn't really need the help and the person would kick into gear without your help.
Well it's a myth that withdrawing support magically kicks people into gear such that they instantly reinvent their personalities. Lots of folks simply sink. This is a tough issue for parents of drug-addicted children. Some "help" is really "help"! And it's OK to help even as the person is trapped in their addiction. Lots of time the parent is just trying to keep the person safe and alive (the streets can be extremely dangerous) long enough for the person to be ready to change. Doesn't sound like your daughter is like that. So I would say the idea you're enabling her is just inappropriate.
Has she been in therapy long? You see any changes for the better? In her insights or confidence or mood? Again, I say think in terms of helping her grow such that in five years she's more independent or ten years more independent. But get to know her insides and out really well. That's what will give you the real leverage in helping her. Standard preaching of "be independent" simply does not work.
Yes, a loner. And social anxiety - she's on a med for that. She says it helps, but it hasn't resulted in her getting out more.
She tried one med for ADHD but it made her jittery. She's cautiously trying another (she's been directed to take it only when she "needs" it; problem is, it takes hours to kick in, so unless she knows ahead of time that she'll need it, it's too late).
Therapy has been going on a couple of years. I don't see a difference. But it's been her choice to keep going, so she must find value in it. I hope that value is real, and not just the therapist leading her on.
Your insight into "enabling" is helpful. I'm a bit of a Type A, so it's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that she "can't" work 40 hours/week. But I said it myself in my first post: if I cut her loose, I think she'd sink, not swim. So at least part of me realizes she needs the help.
Hi, sorry to hear about your daughter; definitely some similarities here. May I ask, what is the medication she takes for her social anxiety? Would you say it helps? Thanks.
If she says she's getting something out of therapy, most likely she is. Part of what she probably needs is healthy self-acceptance.
And good therapists will try to (in their quiet and unintrusive way) get the client to some self-acceptance (genuine not fake and inflated or based on resentment) AND some acceptance change is OK and that there is a path out there for her to find towards more independence.
Credit to you: it's the hardest task in the world for a highly driven parent to work with a child who is socially anxious and so on. An ultra-charismatic, outgoing buddy of mine had a kid with catastrophic social anxiety. Another buddy had never had an unhappy day in his life and has a kid with serious depression. Both of these guys had to work their behinds and brains off to get their minds around their kids' issues. But they've both done it.
You sound a really good person, concerned, worried, probably quietly critical--and yet you're not destructive.
Seriously, though, if you want to gain some real insight and leverage with your daughter (not magic of course) go visit a family systems counselor.
If your daughter is interested in art and animation, supporting her in exploring this might be the key to a building a stronger relationship with her and helping her to find her own pathway to success. Your acceptance of her as an artist might also help a lot with the anxiety. Our parents approval means a lot. The pathway to success in the arts is a winding one. As a parent of a creative child, you probably need to learn to be able to see different measures of success than what you are used to. The 40 hour work week is not the only model of productivity and income is not the only arbiter of success. You want her to become financially secure and independent, sure that is fine. She may or may not find that financial security from income from her artwork, but if she is an artist in her heart, she needs to be supported by her inner circle in that - emotionally & conceptually. Art is a difficult arena full of judgement and for an anxious person, it’s important to have someone outside yourself who believes in you. Following creativity can be incredibly motivating.
She may be imagining herself as an animator or comic artist professionally and that may or may not happen for her, you are correct that these fields are competitive, but there are other ways to make money as an artist. She might not be aware of all the options yet, and she is describing what she is thinking of as a successful pathway. She might find a great career that is tangentially related to her artwork, like becoming an art therapist or working in an arts nonprofit or teaching, but she won’t find it if she’s not able to explore this world at all. Think about that “shoot for the moon you might land on a star” thing, or whatever that expression is.
You are already supporting her financially at the moment, so maybe this is a good time to help her find an arts/animation related internship, assistantship, or entry level job so she can start building skills and relationships in an arts field. To get the ball rolling. Look around your area, are there local artists or designers hiring assistants? Look for art based nonprofits, museum internships, printing presses, screen printing studios, graphic design firms, publishing studios, art galleries, even art supply stores or animation or comic stores. If the work is even a little related to her interests, she might enjoy it more. Even working the reception desk or in the development office of an art related place might be more interesting than the office of a company that is in a field she’s not interested in. She may also meet other people who share her interests and it might help her with her social anxiety, and she might find some mentors who can help her find her way professionally.
She may also eventually decide to move artwork into the “hobby” category of her life, but holding down a job to support a beloved hobby is sometimes a better motivator than working to impress parents or to fit into a societal mold.
Trying to jam her into a type-A box won’t work, she’s never going to suddenly start excelling in an environment that she can’t relate to just because it’s what is deemed successful by normal standards. Especially if she has ADHD. She needs to have her own motivation and your approval and acceptance of her creativity might mean more than you think. See if you can meet her where she is and try to enter her world a little, you will have to let go of some of your ideas of what “making it in the art world” looks like. Many artists and creatives work multiple part time jobs or short term full time projects/gigs. It’s not an easy life or a “normal” one, but it can be very rewarding and fulfilling.
Other things you can do that will resonate with her more once she sees you as supporting her identity as an artist: teach her about budgeting and saving. Those part time gigs don’t usually come with benefits unfortunately.
This is excellent advice! I especially love where you said. “Even working the reception desk or in the development office of an art related place might be more interesting than the office of a company that is in a field she’s not interested in.” What a GREAT way to start! 👍🏻
Your post caught my attention because I had a two hour long conversation just today with my older sister about this very topic! She is an experienced high school lead special education teacher (30 years) who has helped countless kids transition to college/services after high school. I am concerned about the future of my 16 yo daughter (adhd / social anxiety disorder / anorexia) after she graduates next year.
The two things I can give you are:
1. She said that if my daughter ends up living at home and either working or doing part time school, to make sure I incentivize her working. Let me explain. She said rather than have her pay things like rent (the big bill) to make her responsible for the bills of things that are really important to her (because if she stops paying rent am I really going into kick her to the curb? Probably not).
Rather, she said, bring it closer into her view. Have her pay bills for the things that are important to her (clothes, phone, toiletries [sanitary products!], makeup, shoes, gas, car insurance, etc.) —— much of which she can go without but are things she probably wants to have. The idea is to have her see the very real connection between having creature comforts or not and how can she get them - by obviously having money. And how does she get this money? By working! If she doesn’t pay for those things then she simply doesn’t have them.
2. I also recently bookmarked this article that I found from additudemag.com which is a great resource. One sentence reads: “In short, parents should nudge but not push, support but not coddle,” which is the advice I think you are looking for.
You sound like a supportive father who wants to effectively help your daughter. Kudos to you! She’s lucky to have you! Best of luck. I will be in your shoes in less than two years.
Hi Fett, you are in a very common predicament with your daughter. By clinical definition- “ enabling” is something we do for others that they CAN do for themselves. “ helping” is doing something for others that they can not do for themselves. When we help others we feel good. When we enable others we feel frustrated, unsettled, etc. so i guess the question here is rather or not your adult daughter is capable of functioning as an age appropriate adult. If so and you still financially support her then that is enabling.
ADHD is a neurological disorder in which we struggle with executive function, and focussing on things we dont find interesting enough. Being financially dependent on family far into adulthood isnt a symptom of ADHD, Absolutely not. That is a huge indicator that her ADHD is not being properly managed. Because those of us with properly treated ADHD can be really fabulous in a career.
People can get very attached to their therapist sometimes bc they feel comfortable and lets face it- who doesnt want to talk to the nice accepting professional who builds us up when we feel life is tearing us down?!?! everyone loves that!!! But remember that the whole point of therapy is to learn healthy ways to think and function in life. Good therapy leads to functioning well in life without needing a therapist. Im assuming your daughter has ADHD bc you are in this group. That being said- if your adult daughter did not enjoy ir get some perceived benefit from therapy for whatever reason- she wouldnt go. period. I see this alot in my occupation- it looks like you and your daughters perception of the “ endgame” is different. I dont know anything about her except what you wrote- but you seem to be saying that your idea of making progress in therapy would show up un ways such as, your daughter would have friends, less anxiety, ability to be financially independent from you, realistic career goals, etc etc… is that correct? because honestly, that IS the definition of progress so you are completely justified in looking at this situation the way you are. But being justified in thoughts and perceptions doesn't change your situation.
Are you clear in your head what your boundaries and expectations for your adult daughter are? ❤️
"Are you clear in your head what your boundaries and expectations for your adult daughter are?": No, I'm not. I'm still at the stage where I don't know what reasonable expectations would be.
tl;dr - your daughter can absolutely be a successful in a competitive world with proper treatment, education, and support.
she sounds a lot like me before I was diagnosed and medicated or even knew what ADHD really was. ADHD can be incredibly disabling without proper support - medication, education, therapy, coaching and evaluation for other disorders such as anxiety, depression, learning disorders, chronic fatigue, etc.
Please do not confuse difficulty with everyday tasks with inability to have a full, successful and rewarding life. Think of it like diabetes - very debilitating, even deadly, without ongoing treatment, education, or lifestyle changes, completely managable with it.
Is she on the right medication and getting proper education about ADHD from therapist? if not she might benefit from some sessions with an ADHD coach. does she have access to a support group for young adults with ADHD? if she likes interacting online, she might find Reddit useful if she's not on there already, lots of helpful ADHD forums there.
There's some great ADHD podcasts too (for both of you), I really like Translating ADHD and ADHD Essentials. Also the most recent ologies episode interviews Russell Barkley, the leading expert on ADHD for several decades. on YouTube have her check out How To ADHD.
Your budding artist may have a very difficult time initiating the actions to pursue her career. Even putting a basic resume or application (for anything - any paperwork at all) can feel like an impossible task. Perhaps you can help her with things that require online research, or dense reading, or many parts or steps. Or if you cannot, help her find someone who can help her with these kinds of tasks with patience and compassion.
Is her house messy? Visual overwheln can be exhausting, overwhelming, and depressing. Even if she wants to clean, she may not be able to by herself at this time. What often helps me is having another person do it with me so I don't get stuck in trying to make decisions or get lost in rumination. Also meds helpbme a LOT with this specifically.
Eventually, with support and education, she can and will learn to do these things on her own. But for now maybe support her with things you can do that she can't, so she can do the things that she can and wants to do (animation). Not permanent, just helping her transition into life as an independent adult.
Speaking from experience, we ADHDers can take a bit longer to learn life skills, but we are notoriously good at artistic and creative endeavors. Your daughter may indeed excel far beyond yours or her expectations if given the opportunity to thrive.
Hi Fett. Don't give up on her. Obviously you know the situation better than anyone, but I don't think "tough love" ever works well unless it's recommended by a professional who knows the situation really well and has some good reasons. If she's trying and she's happy, maybe there isn't as big a problem. I know it can be hard to watch someone struggle to fit into the square box that our world calls successful adulting, but there are so many different ways to be happy in this life. Probably loving and supportive parents who love her are better then a successful career or being engaged irl. If she doesn't have a home base of support, she probably doesn't have much to build on. As an undiagnosed ADHD kid, I was subjected to some tough love and it just resulted in a lot of friction and pain. I came around in my own time (much later than many of my friends) but I'm in my late 30's now and doing very well with a successful career and a family of my own. I think ADHDers have to grow at our own pace and as long as you can see her trying and interested and engaged, I know she can do it.
It's hard to understand what "can't work 40 hours" could possibly mean, but it's real. It's not laziness even though that's how other people see it. For me, I physically shut down and the weight of despair and frustration is so crushing that there is just no energy left to do the work. This happens less now that my symptoms are being managed, but there are days when I still experience it. For me, it happens when I have too much on my plate and so keeping my focus on one or two things (and a ton of symptom management mainly in the form of a lot of exercise and recovery from said exercise) is important for me.
As far as not having any goals, having ADHD means experiencing failure constantly and learning not to hope or expect too much because the disappointment when you fail or make a mistake gets exhausting to deal with. Also, I've noticed in myself that I thrive when I keep my goals and dreams small and short. Maybe get interested in her week and help her have some short term successes that may seem small to you but can build confidence.
Big long term things like a career in animation are really tough to do with adhd. I can't tell you how many times my dad tried to teach me how to break up longer term projects into pieces and set deadlines/ markers/ milestones. I could never do it. I still cant do it. I work one day at a time and craft the life around me to support that. I'm late all the time with my work and still can't finish the majority of my projects, but I focus on one day at a time and I've been able to create a life that I can live with and the people around me can live with.
Your daughter is worth sticking with and being there for, now matter if the pace and direction of her life doesn't look like other peoples. Help her appreciate herself for who she is and she will grow into something amazing in her own time. I am sending good vibes to you both.
I'll just add on here that your daughter really probably needs the long term therapy. For one, she's working on the past and getting over past pain and rejection and failure and isolation. Two she's working on the present and she's trying to adjust for the future.
Those are three different tasks--each of them huge. And when you don't have great confidence or self-awareness, making constructive change is really hard.
You might benefit from someone else in her life--someone she feels comfortable opening up to--might be a woman. Does she have an aunt or former teacher or someone like that that she trusts?
My sister chose the the tough love/I don't believe in ADHD approach with her youngest child. He bounced around living in various siblings and relatives homes. He stayed with us for 2 years and we got him into therapy and found him a low stress job and he did pretty well. My health issues took priority and he had to move on to other relatives, none of which worked out. He ended up homeless, staying at halfway houses (the first which his mother took him to!) and eventually living in the car that we gave him. His mother still refuses to help him so my other sister took him in and now he has a job he likes, but doesn't make enough, and has student loans that he hasn't paid so his wages are garnished. He cannot afford to and won't be approved for an apartment because of his credit rating. He is basically not capable of living by himself. We got him setup once with his own apartment, but he failed measurably. He is going to a psychiatrist for his ADHD and other meds but sometimes can't afford them. He hates asking for help or divulging what his diagnosis is. I suspect he make be on the spectrum. He's still driving my car that we pay the insurance on. So he's made progress, but he will never be the 'normal' that his mother would like. It's been painful to witness my sister be so cruel to one of her own. I have a son who has many of the same issues, ADHD, OCD, RSD, severe anxiety, etc. All the good stuff that comes with ADHD. He went to music college and did well in most classes but could not turn that into a good job as the music industry collapsed around him. Then the woman he had a relationship with that he ended informed him she was pregnant with his child. So he 'did the right thing' and moved in with her and her son by a previous relationship. It did not go well. He moved home a couple of times and eventually moved back and they got married. Now he is unable to work and harbors a great deal of anger. He is in denial about his conditions and just wants it to 'all go away'. We have been helping him and now them all along. She also has ADHD and says she's on the spectrum so now the two of them are trying to raise 2 kids. So, as you can see, my wife and I have been where you are a couple of times! So I empathize and sympathize with you for sure. I'm thinking about retiring, but am not sure we can afford it with this going on. The major difficulty is finding anyone in the health care community who really understands ADHD and it's tag-along co-morbidities. He attempted to take the 6 hour psychiatric evaluation test and got so frustrated he gave up. Seriously, asking a depressed, anxious ADHDer to take a six hour test!! Presently he's on Ritalin, Wellbutrin, and Gabapentin which is helping but he really needs an ADHD specialist therapist and maybe a neurologist but is not really into throwing a dart at some names to pick a provider. He's done that numerous times and none of them really worked out. He tells me he's going to try the test again with the hopes this may help him move forward in the medical system so we're at least a little optimistic! So after that long diatribe, the bottom line for us is this- try to learn as much as you can about ADHD and it's co-morbidities and try to get her to do the same thing. You're on this forum so I suspect you're already doing that! Give yourself credit for it. This is like having another job. Accept your child for what she is, and help her become the best person she can be within the boundaries of her conditions. This is the hardest part. We all have dreams of what we want our kids to be. Accept that that may not happen. Be the source of unconditional, unwavering, love. Always look at her through the lens of love first even if your mind wants to go back to what you were taught. We've found that this is the most important part. It's not easy sometimes as we're dealing with someone who has a brain that we can't possibly understand fully. Hug her, tell her you love her, try not to criticize as she probably has RSD (rejective sensitivity dysphoria). Make sure she knows that you are there for her-no matter what happens. We are parents forever-that's part of the deal when we sign up. I tell my son that I cherish every conversation we have, even if they're raging arguments. I really try to stay calm so I don't add any negative energy to the situation. Have patience, Look with love always, and keep trying! Don't ever give up on her like my sister has with her son. I wish you the best as you navigate through this to a better life for you both.
Your daughter sounds a bit like me when I was younger. I had mild social anxiety (but I didn't know that term in the early 90s, so I thought it just came with being an introvert). I managed to mostly overcome my social anxiety by working in a full-service retail store. (That strategy of intentionally working with the public might work for some people, but not with others.) Due to my introverted personality, I still feel uncomfortable in crowded places, but I think my social anxiety was mild to begin with.
As far as her interest in art and animation goes, if she was one of my kids, I would encourage her to follow her dream, but make sure she is aware that it's a competitive career field. It can be hard for an artist to get into the animation industry. She may have to work in other fields while looking for opportunities to do paying and career-building art or animation work.
To build up a career portfolio, you might suggest that she create an online presence for herself, whether it's her own website to showcase her art, or an existing web platform for artists (there have been several over the years; one I know has been around a while if DeviantArt, but it would be up to her to decide whether & where to showcase her art; this might give some good options alternativeto.net/software/....
I have a son who is currently 19, attended college for one year, then said he's taking one year off. (He's also into anime, and wants to be a screenwriter.) His life has gone through all these changes in the last 5-6 months:
* started playing tabletop D&D
* started dating a girl in the same gaming group
* got his first job (part-time)
* had his first argument with his mom ever, and that same day moved out and moved in with his older sister
* got a second part-time job...and recently lost it
* supposedly went to the DMV to take the written test and schedule the behind the wheel test (at his sister's insistence of "if you're going to live under MY roof, you're going to GET YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE!" -- his mom and I have been prodding him to get his license for two years already)
* has been talking with a coworker and taking over their lease, but he would have to get a roommate, and since he
At least he got out of the house, but his path right now is rather aimless, ...well, other than his relationship with his girlfriend, that is. (Ah, to be so young and carefree!)
(I'm the only person in the family who has been diagnosed ADHD, and my grown son is extremely similar to me, so I am sure he has ADHD, too. Inattentive presentation. -- I suspect that all four of my kids have ADHD, covering all the three presentations. I'm beginning to suspect their mom is sub-clinical ADHD, Hyperactive-Impulsive presentation, because she definitely is impulsive.)
I'm 24 with ADHD and did well in school, and have experienced working both full time and part time from my parents' home. Working full time for the first time is really difficult! She hasn't needed to do so much time-management and balancing different aspects of life before, and it can take a few years to really get the hang of it. So I hope you will take my advice. It sounds like she needs this time to work part time. I think she would want to work full time when she feels able to manage it and finds something more enjoyable and fulfilling. It would worth having a non-judgemental, open conversation with her asking if she feels she could manage working more hours.
Actually, I would've thought going to college would require more time management and balancing than a regular job. Getting to classes when every day is a different schedule and no one's telling you when and where to go, is really challenging. (I know because, 35 years later, I still have nightmares about it!)
I know what you mean, but for me, having that timetable scheduled for me each week with live lectures and deadlines was much easier, although did require time management. It's also different because I mainly had exams and not coursework so that was easier to manage. Whereas with a job you get some direction but you're left to your own devices without immediate deadlines or consequences (depends on the job obviously!)
Yeah, but ... in college, I had roomates who would remind me to do basic things. Seriously, I think I graduated college, only because my roommate was always up on the paperwork and would get me to do all the paperwork he did. In grad school, I completed my course work, but didn't graduate in the spring. Why? Didn't complete some paper work required ... Not sure I knew that paperwork was required ...
Job world is much higher pressure in some ways and tons of paperwork and rules and inflexible deadlines and your best friend isn't beside you to remind you to fill out forms. I don't think I submitted a single paper on time in college. And I don't remember getting penalized once. In the workworld, I was always catching heck from my bosses for busting deadlines. My work quality was excellent, but my bosses didn't feel they could rely on me to get it done on time.
Similar situation here! Daughter, 26, got a degree in animation but wasn't able to find a job in that field. Seems to have lost passion for art. Works in retail since graduation She and her fiancé live with us since last year. They're getting married in a few weeks but today's housing situation has kept them from finding a house of their own. She was tested for AD/HD but it came back negative. I was shocked, since I have it and she demonstrates the EXACT same symptoms as me. She talked about getting therapy for depression/anxiety, but never set it up. Her mom and I just try tobe supportive of her career decisions and mental state. Difficult to know where the "line" is, so as not to overstep. I wish your daughter well. Therapy sounds like a great idea for her, IMO. Don't give up! Best of luck!!
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