PSA production

[Aussieguy1]

If you see a decline in your PSA measurements from taking prescribed and or supplemental treatments, are they impacting the cancer or just altering the PSA production?

I am on Active Surveillance for Gleason 6, two cores with 80% adenocarcinoma, PIRADS 4. Last PSA 6. If I take a supplement such as curcumin for example and it lowers my PSA, is it perhaps masking the changes that could occur regarding the cancer cells?

Thanks

Ian

[dadzone43]

I do not think the answer to your question is known. This has been a topic of some debate on the forum: does curcumin actually lower PSA production/kill cells/reduce prostatitis inflammation or does it just mask the biochemical test. That said, I daily take a turmeric/ginger tea and Pomi-T supplement every day. Doing no harm, may be helping, PSA undetectable.

[Aussieguy1 in reply to dadzone43]

Thanks dadzone43.

I asked because I bought it up in conversation with my urologist and he said to avoid any supplements that would alter my PSA reading.

But curcumin was something I was seriously considering.

If my urologist is correct about supplements and avoiding them to stop interference with the PSA results, shouldn’t men on Active Surveillance be warned of this?

Also wouldn’t taking supplements change the PSA readings of guys with metastatic disease?

Anyway thanks for answering my post.

Great that your PSA is undetectable.

[Punic56 in reply to dadzone43]

New here so sorry for jumping in late. I think we all get too fixated on PSA score. Healthy prostate cells express/shed PSA and there is always some in the blood. PSA is just the canary in the coal mine... They monitor it so if there is a sudden increase it COULD be something dangerous and then you get probed and prodded to find out... as you are on active surveillance presume they have found something and now they are monitoring it. In that sense the PSA has done its job and is less relevant. It's the MRIs and biopsies that are the important part of active surveillance. I take turmeric, drink pomegranate juice etc. I don't think any supplements 'mask' PSA anyway. Just my two cents. 😉

[GeoffNoLongerAS in reply to Punic56]

I was on AS for 11 years (as in past tense unfortunately). I agree with Punic and like his canary in a coal mine appraisal, quite accurate.

I do believe PSA has a continuing role, most importantly the change in PSA as well as the velocity. In my case it was steady at 3.0 ish for a number of years. Then it began to slowly increase beginning to gain steam until it was over 7 approaching 8.

I assume you have tracked your PSA. Has it increased over time? What is the velocity? There are calculators online that can help calculate. During my AS i charted the PSA and kept track of the velocity.

Good luck going forward and it all works out. Even though I had to end AS and seek treatment, I have no regrets being on AS for 11 years.

[RMontana in reply to GeoffNoLongerAS]

Hello, please consider a pelvic MRI to see if you have any metastasis in your gland...I had a PSA of 4.1 and 1/3 of my prostate had tumor; NO ONE knew and two Urologists did DRE before it was discovered via MRI and found nothing...because it was growing on the inside / upper portion of the gland where (NOW I find out)...you wont detect it with a DRE...

Then...PSA levels of 4.0 as a safe threshold (NOW I find out) are meaningless...it goes back to the original 1980's discovery linking PSA to PCa; know how it was selected as the upper range of 'safe' PSA range (this floored me)...the researches simply added 2 standard deviations to the existing mean and called that "safe." That's it...they did not adjust for age, for family history, for baldness (yeah, check that one out)...nothing. There was NOTHING scientific about the 4.0 PSA; it was a SWAG (let me know if you need that acronym defined)...

Looking back I should have had a multi parametric MRI done at a PSA of 2.0...the HECK with velocity as well...my velocity going to 4.1 was never outside the bounds either...I felt totally safe inside my 'passing DRE-below 4.0 PSA' cocoon...the results for me?

1/3d of my gland had a tumor with a whopping Decipher score of 0.97 out of 1.0...extremely aggressive cancer genome...if I am causing some concern please forgive me...I only wish someone had thrown a bucket of ice water on me about 2-3 years ago...I would not now be post RP with a full bought of IMRT RT, having had a EPE, Bladder Neck Invasion with PNI...but, follow your own judgement for sure...just that, an MRI is non evasive and would give you PROOF that there is nothing there...why not do it...if insurance wont pay, heck my cell phone costs $1200...so things are expensive in medicine to a point, but the peace of mind a MRI will give you is priceless...Cheers

[EJC61]

I've been taking some turmeric/ginger in a natural form over the past 4 years and haven't heard anything from my uro about it affecting PSA. My PSA has been stable. I have asked just last week at my uro appointment and was told that finasteride can/will effect your PSA because it is attempts to shink the prostate, but Flomax does not effect PSA because it's a relaxer only. FWIW.

[RMontana]

This article on a study done in France, was passed on to me when I asked the same question; does ADT 'kill' cancer cells, or just mask the problem for later treatment...now, this study which is not about ADT (but mentions it) was done on the natural products that come out of broccoli and I am not endorsing that per say, but do see that this natural product AND ADT do kill cells...in this study...see if this sheds some light on your issue; Cheers

ART: Effect of Sulforaphane in Men with Biochemical Recurrence after Radical Prostatectomy

- Sulforaphane can target cancer cells through many demonstrated chemopreventive mechanisms (16). It can inhibit carcinogenic mechanisms such as oxidative stress, phase I enzymes, inflammation angiogenesis, and metastasis and conversely induce “cytoprotective” mechanisms such as phase II detoxifying enzymes, which include glutathione-S-transferases (17), heat shock response, and apoptosis.

- Apoptosis is the process of programmed cell death. It is used during early development to eliminate unwanted cells... In adults, apoptosis is used to rid the body of cells that have been damaged beyond repair. Apoptosis also plays a role in preventing cancer.

- In a retrospective study comparing early and delayed hormone therapy, early hormone therapy was found to be an independent predictor of delayed clinical metastases only for high-risk patients with a pathological Gleason sum greater than 7 OR PSA doubling time of 12 months or less.

- The identification of strategies that delay clinical prostate cancer progression and prolong the interval from treatment failure to hormonal ablation is clearly warranted.

cancerpreventionresearch.aa...