Can ndt be destroyed/rendered useless when antibodies are high?

[puncturedbicycle]

I heard that ndt will not work when antibodies are high because - paraphrasing what I remember - it is so similar to human thyroid output it will be destroyed in the same way the body's own thyroid is being destroyed. Is this true? I have never heard this before and am sceptical.

[shaws Administrator]

If that is the case, I would imagine levothyroxine would also be 'attacked' as it is a synthetic thyroid hormone, T4 which should convert to T3.

The fact that NDT works so well in many is that it is the nearest to a human's thyroid gland hormone, and as well as containing T4 and T3, it also has T2 and T1 and calcitonin and therefore is more synergistic with the human body.

This is a link which may be helpful

stopthethyroidmadness.com/h...

[PinkNinja]

I think the fact that the hormones in NDT are protein-bound might have something to do with this theory, whether true or not. Synthetic versions are not protein-bound so I don't think they would be subject to the same attack. However, I have not heard about it being attacked by thyroglobulin antibodies. I wonder if it is true. Hopefully Rod will be along shortly

I do agree that NDT is a better treatment, certainly for me. This theory could explain what has happened to me over the last few days though. Lump in throat, inflammation of eczema and joints, hypo symptoms - I wondered if perhaps I did have hashimoto's. If the reaction you suggest actually happens it could explain why I felt very hypo for a while and why it coincided with the throat lump and other inflammation.

I would be interested to hear if this is true. I hope it isn't. I like NDT

Carolyn x

[Hidden in reply to PinkNinja]

Hi Carolyn. It sound worrying. Are you going to seek advice from your Dr?

Exx

[PinkNinja in reply to Hidden]

My doctor knows next to nothing about thyroid, unfortunately. I am feeling somewhat better today though

It's showing that this question was only a few hours ago. I'm sure it was yesterday or even the day before! I wasn't even around when I supposedly responded this afternoon, lol!

Throat lump is gone and joints are feeling much better. I'm just very tired but it's been a busy week

[Hidden in reply to PinkNinja]

That's good Carolyn xxx It really frightened me. I became so fearful since my thyroid problems started

Sending you lots of hugs and wishing for this lump to stay away from you xxxx

[merissa in reply to PinkNinja]

Carolyn you are also correct, yes thats why you had lump in the throat, inflamation and so on ( hashimotos) defo x started to learn this xx

[puncturedbicycle in reply to PinkNinja]

Hi Carolyn.

Just to clarify, it wasn't put forward as an argument against ndt, but a caution that if you replace your T4 with ndt, you will become more hypo if inflammation is active and acute, so ndt should be given when antibodies are low. I don't think this would involve taking it away if/when they are high, but perhaps there is some idea that inflammation will subside with correct supplementation - ? Now I'm just making that last part up because I have no idea!

This is kind of third-hand paraphrasing on my part, so I don't want to alarm anyone! I just wondered if this would ring a bell with anyone.

It was definitely connected to ndt being much closer (in structure?) to one's own natural thyroid hormones, unlike thyroxine.

[PinkNinja in reply to puncturedbicycle]

Not alarmed, just interested

[buggles84]

I think this theory is totally true......I felt worse than when on levo! x

[puncturedbicycle in reply to buggles84]

Well I wondered if that was maybe why some people go badly hypo/hyper with it, or why some people seem to have a wobbly adjustment period.

I'm totally onboard with ndt as a potentially life-changing treatment and would like to try it myself so I'm not trying to say anything against it. I just wondered if this was a theory anyone recognised.

[merissa]

I have read this too? NDT and levo wont work if you have antibodies, because its antibody related ( Autoimmune) rather than thyroid. saying that, the antibodies will contine to attack the thyroid and evetually you will be hypothyroid.

xxx

[puncturedbicycle in reply to merissa]

That's interesting. The person who told me this about ndt seemed to think that levo was okay because, being synthetic, it wouldn't be targeted for destruction. I should stress again that I don't know this as fact though.

[helvella Administrator]

Which antibodies?

I can't think why Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies should have any impact.

Thyroglobulin antibodies could have some impact, maybe?

T4 and/or T3 antibodies you'd expect to have similar effects regardless of source.

Rod

[merissa in reply to helvella]

What is Thyroglobulin?

Thyroglobulin is inside your thyroid gland. You use to make thyroid hormones–T4 and T3. If your immune system is attacking and destroying thyroglobulin, then your ability to make thyroid hormones over time decreases.

Evenutally you suffer low thyroid symptoms such as:

¦fatigue

¦depression

¦inability to lose weight

¦gaining weight on low calorie diet, or even though you exercise like crazy

¦dry hair, dry skin

¦infertility

¦high cholesterol.

Because you just can’t make thyroid hormones very well without enough thyroglobulin, you’ll start to develop those low thyroid symptoms at some point.

On lab testing, your TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) levels may go up…. and your doctor may identify the elevated TSH ….and may diagnose you as hypothyroid. He/she will probably start you on Synthroid® or Armour® or something similar.

Here’s a problem, though….

If you’ve got Hashimoto’s—and you’ve got the thyroglobulin antibodies—but the doctor doesn’t test for them….then you’re probably not going to feel very different, even if you’re taking the medication.

The replacement hormones don’t do much for the autoimmune attack on thyroglobulin.

This is a hidden cause because most doctors just don’t look for it.

Why don’t doctors test for anti-thyroglobulin antibodies?

Because, frankly, they wouldn’t treat you any differently if they found out you had it. This is the difference between the traditional medical approach and a more functional approach.

The standard, in-the-box medical approach says it doesn’t matter that you have an autoimmune condition…. It’s good enough to give you thyroid hormones and hope you feel better.

That doesn’t mean your doctor’s trying to make you feel bad. It’s just the limitation of their training. They don’t know that there ARE other things you can do for it.

What should you be doing about Anti-thyroglobulin antibodies?

If you’ve been diagnosed hypothyroid – I don’t care how long you’ve been diagnosed – and you’ve never had a thyroglobulin antibody test or a TPO antibody test, you need to get those done.

[Goldsoundz in reply to merissa]

I'm in the ftpo facebook groups and am on the AIP diet, take selenium, methylated vitamins, etc., and am getting optimal on NDT but my antibodies are off the charts high.

I'm at a loss - it sounds like you know something...

[merissa]

When you have Hashimoto’s and all you do is give the person replacement thyroid hormones like Synthroid®, Levoxyl® or Armour® — it does very little for what’s actually happening in Hashimoto’s.

In Hashimoto’s your immune system is destroying your thyroid gland. The replacement hormones don’t stop that.

It’s the same as if I were to come home and my house is on fire, but the firefighters give me a key to a hotel room…but NEVER try to put out the fire. What are we going to do to put out the fire? Ignore it. Let it burn and hope everything works out OK?

To me, that’s asinine. I’m shocked that more physicians aren’t trying to do something more.

You can’t tell me that all these doctors don’t know something’s not working when their patients are coming back every six months saying, “I still feel awful.” I mean what are the doctors doing? In their mind, what are they thinking?

Well, I’ll tell you what they might be thinking.

¦A lot of doctors think your nuts.

¦A lot of them think you’re not complying.

¦A lot of them think you’re overeating etc.

I’ve come to the conclusion that a lot of the doctors that treat these women suffering with Hashimoto’s think that you go home and eat ice cream & bonbons while sipping a milkshake. And that’s why you’re still gaining weight.

Seriously, I think that’s what some of them think. But I don’t understand why they don’t try to do something about it.

If your the doctor, I just don’t understand how someone can show up to your office and say, “I still feel bad.”

And you say, “Well, time to give you more of the same thing I already gave you that didn’t work.”

That just doesn’t make any sense to me. But that’s what a lot of these doctors are doing; and I think it’s because they don’t understand Hashimoto’s. They don’t understand that it’s an autoimmune condition.

A lot of doctors have stopped reading. When they got their diploma and they got their degree, they stopped reading medical journals. They certainly stopped reading about anything that has to do with natural management or non-drug methods. They’re not reading any of that.

It just saddens me.

[Hidden in reply to merissa]

It saddens me too more than anybody can imagine. I am just frightened by the whole lack of medical help situation.

[julep in reply to merissa]

Hi Merissa... I'm trapped in this cycle too... Hashi's, feel no better whatever I take but docs don't do anything different... can you help me though... what is the answer? How should I deal with my Hashi's?

Thank you!

[merissa in reply to julep]

Hi julep , I will try and respond how i see it, ok nothing works right? therfore we need to find our whats causing the ammune attack in the first instance, we need to correst or manage the cause of these smptoms, in order to do this we need to look out side the box and start to look at food intorances, allergies, vitamin and mineral deficiences, adrenals. so what causes antibodies, the antibodies have already been doorment and a trigger, such as stress, poor diet, menapouse injury so on can set of this attack, Therefore if it the meanpouse we need to correct the hormones, if its the adrenal sort them out, if its the gut heal it and so on.

how do we do this? umm this is where money needs to be spent to find out all the causes explained above, if our bodies are not balanced and the causes are not found, you will have all those low thyroid issues and more if left untreated.

Im in this process of establishing the cause.

will find out more info and get back to you x

[cloud1]

All so complicated;read loads conflicting info.The other day i(unsuccessfully) tried to post a similar question to the top(puncturedbicycle)'funnily' enough.I had read that a naturopath advised against taking glandulars if u have hashis as ,he says,it would cause the body to attack it;increaseing inflam,and gen cause havoc!Just when i wanted to start on raw(dessicated concentrate.not extract) adrenal /thyroid glandulars.I also asked whether,therefore,the same would be true of NDT;if u hav high anti bodies.

[cloud1]

Oh,also,whether it makes a difference whether u use the concentate dessicated(freeze dried) glandulars(which i hav read is 'like weak armour')or just the extract type;i mean with regards to aggravating Hashis.