helvella - A pig by any other name
A brief explanation of the use of the term Sus scrofa in place of Porcine with respect to desiccated thyroid medicines.
Last updated 27/01/2025
Link to blog:
Sus scrofa - A pig by any other name: helvella... - Thyroid UK
Sus scrofa - A pig by any other name
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33 Replies
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just to be a pedant: the scrofa should be lower case not capitalised - unless the medical profession have overridden the punctuation of Linnaean classification
They have overridden Linnaeus.
It varies across the FDA and other documents:
SUS SCROFA
Sus Scrofa
sus scrofa
Sus scrofa (rarely)
I copied what I found in order to report faithfully. But, as the sources are so internally inconsistent, I shall follow Carl.
I did think you’d be a stickler for nomenclature and the minutiae of punctuation strictures of the Linnaean classification system 😁
Changing the name like this is typical of the medical profession, in my experience. Its only purpose is to confuse the patient.
Another example of this is the use of the word "Functional" in medicine.
To an ordinary member of the public if an item is functional it works. But in medicine if a medical problem is described as functional it means "psychosomatic", "all in the head", "hysteria", or a condition without a physical or organic cause. But a doctor would never explain themselves like that if they used the word to a patient.
I'm not sure how doctors will use "sus scrofa" to pull the wool over patient's eyes or to make the patient's life harder but I'm sure they will find a way.
Seems as well for patients to know this before some doctor insists that it isn't porcine, it is Sus scrofa.
Yes, I wasn't complaining about you mentioning it. Really I was just ranting because I don't trust doctors!
I think this is a very useful comment.
And with something like this that most doctors don't know much about, it will create confusion all the way down the tree.
Im all for turning the tables on them! Do you think many even know the term? Most have no idea what NDT is other than bundling it in with snake oil
I hate the term NDT/Natural Desiccated Thyroid.
But I also hate the term "Desiccated Thyroid Extract" that the medical establishment seems to prefer.
Except when quoting, I almost always refer to just "desiccated thyroid". No "Natural"; no "Extract".
helvella - Desiccated Thyroid - DTE vs NDT vs Glandulars
A discussion about the history of desiccated thyroid and the terms used for it.
Clarifying what is meany by Desiccated Thyroid Extract (DTE), Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) and Glandulars and how the names came about.
Direct link to full document:
dropbox.com/scl/fi/ypun0yes...
Last updated 28/12/2024
Link to blog:
helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...
do your prefer Sus scrofa thyroxine? SsT
No. It is fine to include the species. Though I'd stick with porcine, bovine or ovine for now. But it isn't "thyroxine". It is whatever is present in the thyroid gland.
Remember, the T4 in desiccated thyroid is still the left/levo form. The "levo" prefix does not change it from animal source to synthetic. Despite our colloquial use of "levo" to refer to synthetic levothyroxine.
And it includes l-triiodothyronine (or T3 for ease!). And Monoiodotyrosine (MIT) and Diiodotyrosine (DIT). And thyroglobulin. And the remains of the thyroid follicular cells. And all sorts of other things.
That's before we start on the excipients!
I thought it had always been referred to as thyroxine medically and it was a correct term as it’s not just levothyroxine. If it’s what comes from a real thyroid gland then what is thyroxine if it isnt that? I mean these extras are belittled as being of zero significance anyway so I assume most of it must be thyroid hormone.
There’s a few extras in synthetic levothyoxine, too but we still call it Levothyroxine.
if it were up to me I’d call it pig trotter medicine cos it sounds fun! Not for the pig tho.
Thyroxine is a chemical name of the substance.
But that name applies equally to Dextrothyroxine (D-thyroxine) and Levothyroxine (L-thyroxine). Both of which have been trialled as medicines. They are identical except that one twists to the right; the other twists to the left.
The change from the word Thyroxine on our packets, in papers, etc., to Levothyroxine was intended to remove the ambiguity that existed between the L- and D- forms.
But what we ourselves produce is the L- form.
And in German, it was already often or usually called L-thyroxin. Hence no ambiguity.
If we are discussing the detailed differences, we need to consider that synthetic levothyroxine is produced as the sodium salt. Hence Levothyroxine sodium. And the hydration. Usually pentahydrate.
But, once processed by our digestion and absorbed, there is absolutely no difference at the molecular level between what our own thyroids produce and what we take - whether from an animal or a chemical synthesis.
(All the other things like impurities, degradation products, excipients, etc., could well make a difference to us.)
So, in full, Levothyroxine sodium pentahydrate. Which is a mouthful.
If you take a typical levothyroxine tablet, the actual levothyroxine content is somewhere around one thousandth of the tablet.
If you take a typical desiccated thyroid tablet, the actual levothyroxine and triodothyronine content is somewhere around one thousandth of the tablet.
But the dose of desiccated thyroid is typically around a thousand times the dose of levothyroxine. E.g. 60 milligrams of desiccated thyroid version 50 micrograms of levothyroxine. That is because most of the desiccated thyroid ingredient is not hormone.
Interesting. So is T3 thyroxine? Do the left and right forms bind differently to other molecules & do we know why they exist or are they just random?
It makes sense my NDT is 38mcg levo and 9mcg T3 so minuscule compare to the size of the grain. I presume it’s easier to take a grain than fiddle about with tiny amounts of powder may be it preserves the stuff better too but also you imply NDT is quite bulky so to speak.
is the 1/1000th a usual ratio for tablets, is it aimed for perhaps because of how these things are absorbed or is it just random too?
I think the history and science of tablet making must be very interesting here’s hoping you have some revelatory references in your digital medicinal treasure chest of resources.
A relative trained as a chemist in the days when they did all the mixing and making from a prescription. He hated the tablet counting it became later on, but I assume it was a lot safer generally.
It took me years to work out the grain total was the weight of the tablet. I always thought it something to do with the bioavailability of the hormones 🙄
No! I made a typo. Corrected to say:
the actual levothyroxine and triodothyronine content
It isn't a matter of being fiddly to handle minuscule amounts of the actual hormone.
But the process of extracting the hormones from thyroid glands - dry or wet - is difficult and expensive.
The Isolation in Crystalline Form of the Compound Containing Iodin, Which Occurs in the Thyroid: Its Chemical Nature and Physiologic Activity
At the time, they had no idea what the hormone was. They separated the glands using various techniques. They found the part that contained iodine was the active part. So they kept processing until they got nearly pure hormone.
Just taking powdered desiccated thyroid was easier, cheaper and had already been practised for some time.
It wasn't until they could synthesise the hormones that it made sense to change the actual medication of people.
Left and right handed versions of compounds can behave anywhere from almost the same to very differently. An L- form might fit something neatly whereas the D- form might not fit at all.
Dextrothyroxine was needed in much higher doses and it causes heart issues. Hence it was abandoned.
Almost all amino acids are in the L- form.
Chirality of Amino Acids: Enantiomers, Differences, and Importance in Biology
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wait ….what😳 it’s Wild Boar thyroid in NDT? Always learning 🤣 thanks H. wiki link to Sus scrofa en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_...
There are lots of feral hogs these days!
It is confusing that Sus domesticus is separately named but is (or probably is) a subspecies of Sus scrofa.
I had a herd of Wild Boar. They are Sus Suidae. There are actually 7 levels of classification for pigs. Wild Boar are very vocal and I speak fluent Wild Boar.
I wonder how many sub species there are for doctors...
That wiki page needs you serenfach and sound bites of wild boar chat would definitely improve my life 🙏
I would chat for hours with them, tell them my troubles and get sympathetic little squeaks back! They had a huge vocabulary.
If you ever hear a pig bark like a dog - run!
Disturbed some deer by accident in the woods and heard one of them repeatedly barking - did I run!!!!
i once disturbed what later turned out to be some donkeys in what i thought was an empty field in the dark ... sounded like a bunch of dragons ... never jumped back over a gate so fast in my life.
Organic too!
Thank you this is very interesting. l'm really looking forward to using this term when I next see my GP, I wonder if he/she/they will have any idea what I'm talking about - "porcine" confused the last one!
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