I'm not sure if this is allowed but here goes! I'm hypothyroid after half of my thyroid was removed back in 2012. I saw this product advertised and the claim is that it relieves the exhaustion and lack of energy that a lot of us suffer. Has anyone tried it and if so, what are your thoughts, please.
Has anyone tried this?: I'm not sure if this is... - Thyroid UK
Has anyone tried this?
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Firinne
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Personally, I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. If a blend of amino acids helped, we’d be shouting it from the rooftops. It doesn’t. The only people it helps are the owners of the business that sells it.
TiggerMeAmbassador
If you pop greenleaf into the search you'll bring up previous chats
You've not shared any recent results which might shine a light on why you still have these symptoms?
If something sounds too good to be true, it more than likely is! If your problem is under-medication this is not going to help you one bit. You can only replace a hormone with a hormone, nothing else.
Thank you, this is an unusual situation due to my inability to eat healthily, due to repeated attacks of diverticulitis this year. I don't think I'm under medicated, I seem to go hyper very quickly if on what would be considered a normal dose of levothyroxine.
Do you have Hashi's?
Who would consider it a 'normal' dose of levo? There's no such thing. We are all different and need what we need. But, if you have Hashi's your levels are going to fluctuate frequently, independantly of your dose, due to the immune system attacks on your thyroid.
I'm afraid I know nothig about diverticulitis, but if you diet is deficient in any element, obviously it would be a good thing to try supplementing those elements. But don't get taken in by the blurb. There are no miracle foods, only what you need. 
I don't know why I keep losing my replies, just lost another one just as I was on the point of sending it! In a nutshell, no I don't have Hashi's, thank goodness and my TSH doesn't normally vary much on my small dose of levothyroxin. It would be interesting to know what it is at the moment, with my diet being so rubbish (can't be helped, thanks to this awful year with my diverticular disease). Maybe I'll wait till the New Year and get some tests done before I decide on supplements. I do take a few and top up with Complan although I suspect the vitamins etc in that are not best quality.... I'd better stop there before I get into another long ramble and lose it again 🫤
A friend who has Diverticulitis eats mostly fish which helps her lack of a Gall Bladder as well.
Yes, I like fish, I should eat more, really. I eat lots of eggs, they're my saviour although, touch wood, I am able to tolerate more fibre, I think I'm more or less healed from my latest infection. Easy does it, though. If your friend is on Facebook, there's a fantastic DD group I belong to. Even after 25 years with this disease, I am learning so much. It's UK based though so might not be of interest. Diverticular Disease and Diverticulitis. UK Based Support Group, if your friend is interested.
I’m on an amino acid kick right now (ie, deep into research.)
The absolute best and recommended thing to do is optimize your thyroid (assuming you’re here because you are hypo and/or on Levo like many/most of us).
Are your free Ts optimized? Are your D, folate, ferritin and B12 optimized?
If not, more likely you should prioritize that and put amino acids on your long list to consider after you have those basics stable.
Out of all the amino acids, there are 20 our bodies need. Out of those, there are 8 of them our bodies don’t make, and we need to ingest them. I haven’t looked side by side but I bet the supplement you show above has those 8. Out of those 8, our body makes the rest.
Supplement companies sell each amino acid separately and also sells them in combination mixes in capsules and powders. Because of the important role amino acids play in protein synthesis (they are the building blocks of protein - protein being just chains of amino acids) you will see tons of exercise and health and performance influencers talking and hawking amino acid supplements.
Obviously a well chosen healthy diet will provide these. Obviously there is a criminal lack of knowledge by our doctors on what a good healthy diet looks like and how we should eat to ensure we get what we need. For some - amino acid supplements can have their use. For some amino acids, there are prescriptions where research has shown actual clinical benefits.
But it’s way more complicated that just taking a mix of various mgs each, and obviously being hypo complicates the matter as well.
While it is true you can look at the role each of these amino acids plays in our body’s health, and each does indeed deliver very important benefits for energy and fatigue and brain function and everything in between, as with most things - it doesn’t mean you can take them exogenously and expect that pill or powder to just drop into your body’s workflow.
As with anything - you can have too little and you can have too much. And each will have a knock on effect on your body (and thyroid function) in standard and individual ways.
Chances are if you are looking for a supplement promising these benefits, you likely have some basics to take care of first.
This is so interesting, thank you FallingInReverse
Firinne,
If you are optimally medicated with thyroid meds but remain symptomatic it’s worth optimising nutrients, iron and looking at your protein intake.
Everyone requires the full spectrum of amino acids to make the proteins involved in cellular metabolism including the carriers of T3 both around the body and into the cells to become active.
Extra amino acids helped my thyroid meds work better.
Thank you all so much for your thoughts. The last blood test I had, which was about 7 months ago, D, folate, ferritin and B12 were all near the top end of the range. However, since then, my other major problem, diverticular disease, has reared it's ugly head and I wouldn't say my diet is as good as it was, thanks to having to restrict certain foods (or even fast, at times) I don't know about my free Ts, that's a good point. I suppose I'm looking for a short cut, hoping to regain my energy....
As someone who has been talked off the ledge while looking for short cuts many time by this forum, I can relate.
As Radd said - and as research will show - amino acids are actually quite amazing. And they do absolutely help the thyroid work.
Reading about them they do indeed seem too good to be true. But the truth is somewhere in the middle. I’m new to it but I’m beginning to think they are a hidden gem in our lifelong journeys to feel better.
But in my experience, there are so many claiming to do so many things, and thresholds matter (too much or too little), not to mention that the effect they will have on your free Ts will take weeks to determine (as t4 has a 7 day half life so that still needs time to settle) and so in my opinion they should be treated just like any other change. Change one thing at a time, be watchful of changes, and wait 4-8 weeks for a retest of full thyroid panel. Or else you will never know what is effecting the change.
radd do you take a mix, or individual ones? Did you go one at a time? Did you wait and rest its impact on your Ts? Do you take them all the time, or do you take breaks?
Do tell, radd 😘
Rapunzel and FallingInReverse
I take TiggerMe 's recommendation, Total Amino by G & G Food Supplies. It provides the full spectrum and I only take when I don’t eat meat for a few days. gandgvitamins.com/total-ami...
I also use protein powder regularly, especially if busy, eg for breakfast if running out the door. Something like Pulsin' Pea Protein pulsin.co.uk/product/pulsin...
A very basic science (I’m sure others can do better than me 😁 and I'm tired tonight 🥱) - remember biology classes teaching amino acids are the building blocks. When we eat protein, our body breaks it down into amino acids, whilst some protein becomes hormones. Chemically all hormones are proteins or protein derivatives (except sex hormones and those from the adrenal cortex - steroids).
Even before medicating thyroid hormone replacement meds we need amino acid phenylalanine that converts to tyrosine used to make thyroid hormones through iodination. Once we have these hormones (naturally or medicated) we need further proteins to ensure complete function/building/maintaining of bones, hair, muscles, etc, but also enzymes & transporters used for T3 (and other) in & and out of cells.
On a larger scale think of the body builder who talks of PTOR (protein turn over rate) that controls how quickly the body can form proteins from amino acids to reassemble long protein chains for muscle. This action is up-regulated by T3 driving all metabolism, and their first evidence of excess T3 amounts and not enough protein is catabolism (muscle burning). This is because it is the rate of metabolism and protein that dictates the rate at which the sub-cellular mitochondria work providing energy that in turn increases further protein synthesis.
For us Hashi sufferers with a more ‘ordinary’ physique I think of more subtle changes that target sensitivities likely within the cell transporters, etc, caused by years of insufficient thyroid hormones and skewed’ physiology. It took me five years to feel really well after adding T3 meds and on each assessment my T3 needs grew less. I started on 20mcg and now medicate just the 9mcg T3 within 1 grain of Armour with T4 levels topped up with Levo. I also function best with levels around half way through range, and have the DIO2 impairment.
I truly believe it is better to make thyroid meds work for us by giving best opportunities (optimised nutrients, iron, proteins, adopting an anti-inflammatory diet, etc ) so we can medicate the least available that maintains well being. All proteins (no matter where) are in a continuous state of turn over because protein containing tissues are constantly being repaired so your body needs a constant source of protein to maintain itself and keep our thyroid meds working well.
Absolutely fabulous info, I'm going to read it thoroughly again and digest (excuse the pun) along with others posters who have knowledge of amino acids. It's making such a lot of sense to me. I know I'm on a tiny dose of levothyroxine and I know my health isn't tip top at the moment but that's due to another issue, as I've explained. "so we can medicate the least available that maintains well-being". This is SO my philosophy! I'm only on levothyroxine regularly, at 78 years old, despite various doctors over the years trying to force other medication on me, statins the main one. This year, I have had to have several courses of antibiotics so I'm looking for the best way to 'feed' my body without my normal intake of actual food. It's very frustrating that diverticular disease at times makes actual food the enemy, for me and others like me.
Didn't want Rapunzel to miss out on this gem (tag seems to have misfired)
I'm finding the same with the need to lower my T4 dose a tad, if I could split a 5mcg capsule I'd be tempted to drop by 2.5mcg, I did try a 5mcg drop but that was too much! Also lowered oestrogen and testosterone as my DHEA levels have picked up... I'm seemingly less chronically ill with everything finally catching up 😁
It is interesting that doing more doesn't necessarily equate to needing more hormones as the actual ability to 'Do' suggests our bodies are regaining equilibrium
If you're going to look at amino acids, you may as well take a look at Earthing. It makes so much darn sense that I'm ready to put up a tent in my back yard (we're days away from Winter and longer days) and cut a hole in the bottom so that I can lay naked on the earth (along with the Voles, Moles, Chipmunks and other underground critters who will crawl into the tent looking for warmth). Call me a crazy Yankee, but I'm convinced that the free radicals which are causing the inflammation are the culprit. I will harken back to a comment I made about our "ancestors eating gluten". My bald, overweight, wrinkly Grandmother from Lithuania ate gmo-free, antibiotic-free, filler-free food from their gardens and butchers. Yet she died at 68 of a stroke? Why was she bald (autoimmune?) fat (she ate too many Krusti's?) and prone to a stroke if she ate better food than we do today? The native american indians (as do the tribes in the Amazon, Africa, the Aboriginal, the South Pacific Islanders, et al) find all of their medicinal cures from the earth. I don't think God was a stupido when it came to creating the earth and universe. I think that He put everything that we need in the flora, fauna, and the soil. (Okay now you're thinking: she's from the US and she's a Lithuanian American! That speaks for itself!) Just some thoughts for taking on taking a different approach.😌
We have Earthing sheets for the bed over here, is that not an option?
Yes it is.
The female filmmaker of Earthing Movie lost 50 lbs after she began laying naked on the ground. I have the real thing in my back yard instead of the sheets. The tent would be the best way to hide from the neighbors.
Let us know how you get on, think I would shiver off a good few pounds 🥶 I do like the idea of chipmunks and other critters though
I'm all for different approaches and going the natural route, where possible. Earthing is interesting, isn't it? Unfortunately I don't have a garden and it's Winter here, non stop cold rain. I'll bear it in mind for the warmer months 😁
Couldn't you purchase a bag of garden soil? Top soil? Raid the neighbors back yard?
SlowDragonAdministrator
How much levothyroxine are you taking
Do you always get same brand at each prescription
And what vitamins are you taking
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 tested
Also both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested at least once to see if your hypothyroidism is autoimmune
Very important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 at least once year minimum
all thyroid blood tests should be early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
Please add most recent results and ranges
Thanks, Slow Dragon, I'll dig out last March's results. I returned from living in Spain about 19 months ago. They were better at the early morning fasting type tests than they seem to be in the UK. I still stick to what I've been used to - fasting and no levothyroxine for 24 hours. I always had the same brand in Spain, it varies these days. I take 50mcg although did take 75mcg every other day in Spain.
50mcg Levo is only standard STARTER dose
What were your last thyroid and vitamin levels
Vitamin levels likely low if left on inadequate dose levothyroxine
Low vitamin levels tend to lower TSH
ESSENTIAL to test TSH, Ft4 and Ft3 together at every test
Test vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin at least annually
How much do you weigh in kilo
Even if we frequently start on only 50mcg, most people need to increase levothyroxine dose slowly upwards in 25mcg steps (retesting 6-8 weeks after each increase) until eventually on, or somewhere near full replacement dose (typically 1.6mcg levothyroxine per kilo of your weight per day)
cks.nice.org.uk/topics/hypo...
bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/levot...
nhs.uk/medicines/levothyrox...
Adults usually start with a dose between 50 micrograms and 100 micrograms taken once a day. This may be increased gradually over a few weeks to between 100 micrograms and 200 micrograms taken once a day.
Some people need a bit less than guidelines, some a bit more
TSH should be under 2 as an absolute maximum when on levothyroxine
gponline.com/endocrinology-...
Graph showing median TSH in healthy population is 1-1.5
web.archive.org/web/2004060...
Comprehensive list of references for needing LOW TSH on levothyroxine
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...
If symptoms of hypothyroidism persist despite normalisation of TSH, the dose of levothyroxine can be titrated further to place the TSH in the lower part of the reference range or even slightly below (i.e., TSH: 0.1–2.0 mU/L), but avoiding TSH < 0.1 mU/L. Use of alternate day dosing of different levothyroxine strengths may be needed to achieve this (e.g., 100 mcg for 4 days; 125 mcg for 3 days weekly).
sciencedirect.com/science/a...
The optimal daily dose in overt hypothyroidism is 1·5–1·8 μg per kg of bodyweight, rounded to the nearest 25 μg.
Aaarrggh! Just lost a looong reply, I don't know where it went? A pink box came up saying there was a problem. So I'll just say thank you for your reply.
Come back with new post once you get full thyroid and vitamin test results
If the Greenleaf product doesn't help me with my nutrition issues, I will. Thank you.
I ordered a couple of boxes and have been taking them for a couple of weeks. They seem to have suppressed my appetite as I don’t feel hungry, but I feel okay taking them and probably have slept slightly better.
I take amino acids as part of my arsenal of supplements. I take them because my gut is not working properly, I am not eating enough protein, and what I do eat seems to sit in my tummy fermenting, making me unwell and tired. We are suppose to cleave off amino acids, B12 etc from our food to make energy. I seem to be not doing this. My stomach acid is too low to do this. I had to take 4 lots of antibiotics for very bad reactivated epstein barr and strep b (I was hospitalised). Those antibiotics shot my microbiome to pieces and caused candida to run wild.
Amino acids turn your food into energy. I do well on mine, does give me a lift.
That's interesting, Katherine. I've taken a lot of antibiotics this year for diverticulitis attacks and I have similar reasons to you for considering them.... my microbiome is a mess.
It has taken me 10 months so far Firinne, I am also on HCL, digestive enzymes, malic acid, bile salts and probiotics. And all the thyroid and B12 companions, I rattle. I do believe good health starts in the gut. I do believe the thyroid has a lot to do with gut issues.
I completely agree with you. I take 2 different probiotics, I've recently changed what I was taking, I'm now on Optibac Every Day in the morning and Alflorex in the evening. I also take Lepicol, Flaxseed oil and Magnesium. Oh and Complan at the moment, with not being able to eat well, thanks to my diverticular disease. And I take Vegavero Vision Care.
I know this might be a wild card but have you ever thought of going carnivore for at least a few months to put your diverticulitis into remission?
It has occurred to me but my husband is very firmly vegetarian (he's 81 and fit as a flea, I'm 78 and not, for the reasons I've given). We do eat fish once a week or so, so I suppose we're pescatarians, technically.... Most of my daughters and grandchildren are either vegans, pescatarians or vegetarians so we succumbed finally to giving up meat about 6 years ago.... My husband now can't face meat but actually, I can.....hmm.... that's an idea worth considering, thank you, Katherine.
Then as non meat eater on inadequate dose levothyroxine you definitely need full iron panel test and test B12 regularly
Low iron/ferritin are especially likely to lower TSH
TSH around 2 is likely far too high
Recommend you get FULL thyroid and vitamin testing privately
Are you currently taking daily B12 and vitamin B complex
Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first and retest 3-4 times a year if self supplementing.
It’s possible to have low ferritin but high iron
Test early morning, only water to drink between waking and test. Avoid high iron rich dinner night before test
If taking any iron supplements stop 5-7 days before testing
Medichecks iron panel test
medichecks.com/products/iro...
IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 5-7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results
endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...
endocrinenews.endocrine.org...
In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate folate supplement (eg Jarrow methyl folate 400mcg)
Good vitamin levels are
Vitamin D at least over 80nmol
Serum B12 over 500
Active B12 over 70
Folate at top of range
Ferritin at least over 70
Has GP tested any of these recently
Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins
Post all about what time of day to test
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Testing options and includes money off codes for private testing
Medichecks Thyroid plus BOTH TPO and TG antibodies and vitamins
medichecks.com/products/adv...
Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes BOTH TPO and TG antibodies, cortisol and vitamins
bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...
Medichecks and BH also offer private blood draw at clinic near you, or private nurse to your own home…..for an extra fee
Only do private testing early Monday or Tuesday morning.
Tips on how to do DIY finger prick test
support.medichecks.com/hc/e...
Monitor My Health (NHS private test service) offer thyroid and vitamin testing, plus cholesterol and HBA1C for £65
(Doesn’t include thyroid antibodies)
monitormyhealth.org.uk/full...
10% off code here
thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...
Randox FULL thyroid test including both thyroid antibodies just £29
Test at home or in clinic
randoxhealth.com/en-GB/at-h...
If you normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test
If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal
Thank you, I do know my few months on 75mcg sent me hyper, so I guess my remaining thyroid is working reasonably well. I've looked at my last blood test results, went into detail on my lost reply but basically the only one not optimal is ferritin, so I need to address that.
If you had a hemithyroidectomy you should have been monitored for post surgical hypothyroidism.
Some people can live with hormone output of one lobe; many can’t.
Have your TFTs been tested recently?
Yes, that's all been done, I'm tested regularly. My hemithyroidectomy did make me hypothyroid although I only take 50mcg of levothyroxine. I don't have hashimoto's though. My TSH is usually somewhere around 2, my GP is not interested in doing other tests 😥.
I’m wondering why you had the hemi?
I had a goitre. It gradually got bigger and a biopsy gave cause for concern that it might be cancer so my consultant operated within a couple of weeks. Turned out to be a follicular neoplasm, from memory. Edit: I've just found my letter from the consultant - it says "histology shows a follicular adenoma with oncocytic change in a background of nodular hyperplasia. There was no evidence of malignancy. I have explained to Mrs ...... that the lump was benign and doesn't require any further treatment. She does have a nodule on the left hand side but this will be part of the benign nodular hyperplasia. " I waited 6 weeks after my surgery for my post op. appointment and jumped up and hugged my surgeon when he told me the nodule was benign. 😅
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