B12 presentation via PA forum

[Regenallotment]

This presentation by Dr David Morris, hosted by Cytoplan was posted to the PA forum recently by auldreekie

Quite astonishing how many times Hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's AIT gets a mention.

Enjoy healthunlocked.com/redirect...

PS don’t be put off by the length….its very engaging and the hour is gone in a flash, I defy you not to take notes!

I feel we should lobby Medichecks and MMH to switch to providing serum B12 and not active B12 as he asserts these change momentarily and don’t tell us much. I notice the GP tests serum 🤨

[Regenallotment Ambassador]

Oh and… stomach acid linked esp PPIs

Oh and…. Leaky gut linked

Oh and…. Brainfog not going away with Levo/Lio linked

[TiggerMe Ambassador]

Great thanks, tomorrow... with a note pad 😉

[Tanitha]

I saw this when posted on the PA forum and wanted to comment but couldn't find it again so thank you for reposting. What struck me was he recognises thyroid antibodies as being connected with b12 deficiency. I find it incredulous I have a diagnosis of pernicious anaemia on my medical records, high TPO and antithyroglobulin antibodies which the lab didn't check because my TSH is in range, and am refused injections. I also get instant energy and mental clarity from an injection, within 24 hours, which he explains is something doctors don't understand and therefore claim to be placebo. I can't see his understanding becoming mainstream any time soon but it gives people like me hope. Very much worth watching.

[Cornwaller]

Thank you - an excellent presentation which I first saw on the PA forum. The advice is slightly different to that sometimes given on this site, namely that a lowish b12 (eg 250) can be addressed by oral supplements to get it above 500. He suggests that above 500 may not be enough and secondly that oral supplements may well not get you high enough and it is likely that injections will be needed in many cases.

[bookish in reply to Cornwaller]

I agree. Also worth noting that for some of us oral/sublingual/sprays/patches can put serum level to top of range or beyond and it still not 'be enough' - injections are a whole different game (my serum B12 was 2000 but I was still clearly deficient and am benefitting from jabs. As the B12 was the problem rather than the thyroid itself, my labs have also improved)

[Cornwaller in reply to bookish]

Your right. I wrote above 500 may not be enough - which was a polite understatement. He said that it was unlikely to enough and suggested that such a low target was, frankly, wrong. Further that cessation on reaching such a target was dangerous and could lead to permanent damage to the spinal cord.

[Sparklingsunshine]

PA victim here, my issue with serum B12 is, much like TSH and other thyroid blood tests they just tell you how much is in the blood, not in the cells. So you can have high circulating values but its not necessarily being utilised by the body. I'm on jabs every 2 months and I supplement in between.

Now once on jabs the NHS aren't supposed to test serum B12 because obviously jabs push your levels sky high, which is their purpose. Mine are often double the top of the B12 range. 2000 plus.

So in theory I should have enough B12 to be fine for a considerable amount of time, but I start noticing after about 6 weeks in my pins and needles get worse, muscle twitching and sometimes parathesia elsewhere.

By the 2 month mark I'm so ready for my jab. So there is obviously a contradiction between serum B12 blood levels and what my body can utilise. I've never actually done an active B12 test, I'm lazy and cheap about testing lol. I might get round to it one day, just for curiosities sake 😆

[bookish in reply to Sparklingsunshine]

Even the active test can be misleading. There are no tests which can definitively prove that you do not have a deficiency, especially at cellular level. Any of the tests can be useful, and may prove a deficiency, but cannot rule it out. I am metabolically normal (now, after 5 years of self-treating with methylfolate and very high oral B12) so theoretically should be ok, but am not. All we can do is look for symptom improvement, not necessarily serum improvement as they do not always correlate. Do you self inject or use oral in some form in between, as 2 monthly is clearly inadequate for you? You won't be able to recirculate your B12 and are unlikly to be storing it (or not well) so the idea that you have enough for a considerable time is inaccurate.

[Sparklingsunshine in reply to bookish]

Yes I use very high dose tablets. I have looked into SI but its a bit of a minefield. When I said I would have enough for a considerable time I was merely repeating what GP thinks. I'm always concerned they'll stop my jabs.

I'm now on alert and whenever I see my GP has included a B12 test in with others I make sure I decline it. They focus on my high result and just assume everything is peachy. Whereas those in the know realise differently. My levels are high precisely because I get jabs and supplement.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Sparklingsunshine]

I noticed within 1 week of not injecting twice a week when we were on holiday. I was taking a daily B Complex but should have packed some injections… next time I will 🙄