Has anyone resolved either their depression, chronic fatigue or feeling hungover in the morning by raising their FT3 from normal to optimal?
(The highest my FT3 has ever been whilst experiencing all these symptoms is 4.9 (3.2-6.8) pmol/L).
Edit: I'm not looking for advice about how to treat. I'm looking for people who feel or have felt similar.
Welcome to the group. If you could complete your profile it helps members understand your thyroid journey so far and be able to advise you better. Click on your image icon to start. Fill out the free text box at the top.
Its not always all about your FT3. We need OPTIMAL vitamin levels for our thyroid hormone to work well.
Do you have a copy of your latest blood results that you can share with us? You are legally entitled to a printed copy of your results, ask at GP reception. In England you can get the NHS app and ask for permission to see your blood results on that by asking at GP’s reception.
It's ideal if you can always get the same brand of levo at every prescription. You can do this by getting GP to write the brand you prefer in the first line of the prescription. Many people find that different brands are not interchangeable.
Always take Levo on an empty stomach an hour away from food or caffeine containing drinks & other meds. Many people find taking it at bedtime works well for them.
When hypo we get low stomach acid which means we cannot absorb vitamins well from our food, regardless of a great diet. For thyroid hormone to work well we need OPTIMAL levels of vitamins. Have you recently or could you ask your GP to test levels of ferritin, folate, B12 & D3? Private tests are available, see link for companies offering private blood tests & discount codes, some offer a blood draw service at an extra cost.thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...
There is also a new company offering walk in (includes free blood draw) & mail order blood tests in London, Kent, Sussex & Surrey areas. Check to see if there is a blood test company near you. onedaytests.com/products/ul...
Only do private tests on a Monday or Tuesday to avoid postal delays.
Do you know if you had positive thyroid antibodies? Many with autoimmune thyroid disease aka Hashimoto's benefit from a gluten free diet. A smaller percentage of those also need to remove dairy from their diet to feel well. These are intolerances and will not show up on any blood test.
Recommended blood test protocol: Test at 9am (or as close as possible), fasting, last levo dose 24hrs before the blood draw, last T3 dose 8-12 hours before blood draw & no biotin containing supplements for 3-7 days (Biotin can interfere with thyroid blood results as it is used in the testing process)?
Testing like this gives consistency in your results and will show stable blood levels of hormone and highest TSH which varies throughout the day. Taking Levo/T3 just prior to blood draw can show a falsely elevated result and your GP/Endo might change your dose incorrectly as a result.
Quite a few people, I should think. It's not even 50% through the range. Most hypos need it higher than that to feel well. 
Okay thanks for your reply
Welcome!
"Normal" only means that the result sits somewhere within the reference range it does not mean that it is ideal for the patient.....or that they have reached their therapeutic dose
Don't be fooled by " normal"!!
We aim to find the exact point within the range where symptoms are resolved.
Your FT3 is only 47.22% through the ref range which for most people is far too low. Instead both FT4 and FT3 generally need to be roughly approaching 75% through the ref range
Your symptoms have not been resolved which indicates undermedication!
Which replacement thyroid hormones/s , and which dose/s, are you taking?
Have you established the status of your T4 to T3 conversion....high FT4 with low FT3 shows impaired conversion.
Have you optimised essential nutrients vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin to support thyroid funtion/ conversion?
Is you GP dosing by TSH...if so it is not a reliable marker following diagnosis?
thyroidpatients.ca/2021/07/...
To help further, we need more information please.
We're all here to help....just ask!
Hi there, thank you I know this. I'm just looking for personal experiences.
OK, good...that knowledge will help you to understand that low FT3 results in the symptoms you are experiencing....and why...and how to deal with those symptoms.
My response was based on lived experience...sorry I didn't make that clear.
Hope you feel well soon
So you had depression and/or chronic fatigue with normal ft3?
So you had depression and/or chronic fatigue with normal ft3?
That is absolutely not what I indicated...
What I did explain was that these symptoms arise when FT3 is low.
But ...we need to know/ work out why the FT3 is low
With the little knowledge on offer I tried to help by explaining how this might have come about
From your response (above) I gathered you understood this when you replied "I know this"
I also explained (above), what medics frequently refer to as " normal"....and why the term causes a great deal of confusion and gives rise to numerous problems resulting from incorrect treatment.
And I further explained that to accurately assess your condition we need more information....that is full thyroid labs, the replacement hormone/s you are taking and the dose prescribed for both.
I had the symptoms you mention, and several more, as a result of low ( cellular )T3. I could barely function at my lowest point......my thyroid condition is rare but it's all in my bio which outlines my experience.
However, we can say very little about your condition which may need one of several protocols to resolve.
There is no point in focussing on what are referred to as " normal results" because we are all different and need individual treatment for individual results.
If you don't feel well your results cannot be normal for you.
Hope this helps clarify things
DD Thank You and GG for validating my feelings and concerns and many other thyroid patients dilemma. Lab work ranges don't necessarily represents my well-being. Personally from my own experiences with my thyroid journey I never felt well when I was in range. I learned to listen and trust how I feel and not what the lab results show. Labs are only snap shots of the moment the labs are done and don't show cellular results. Up until then I will trust what and how I feel. I'm the Best Lab Rat for myself.
So you had depression or chronic fatigue with a normal ft3?
Yes. I've just started liothyronine. I immediately noticed a cloud lift from my brain with lio, more focus, less depressed. My ft3 is bottom of normal range and I have a long way to go to bring it up, but your 'normal' is specific to you, so perhaps needs to be higher. I read a sci paper recently about the possibility of using liothyronine to treat patients with depression. I'm hoping that as my lio increases my chronic fatigue will ease too.
Hi! Immediately lifted after what dose and how long?
Hi there, well, within an hour of first 5mcg dose. Don't think its placebo effect... I've felt more 'up' and focused than I have in the past decade. Mind you, my ft3 was bottom 10% of range. I know I've a long way to go though. My body will 'adjust' over the next couple months, then I'll need an increase again. But I do at least feel I'm on the right track. Before I started lio I spent many months improving my diet, vitamin and mineral levels. Adding in lio was the next logical step.
Within 1 hour woah!! Lucky you
how much Levothyroxine are you taking
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 tested
Also both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested at least once
Very important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 at least once year minimum
ESSENTIAL to maintain GOOD vitamin levels for good conversion of Ft4 (levothyroxine) to FT3 (active hormone)
When were vitamin levels last tested
About 90% of primary hypothyroidism is autoimmune thyroid disease, usually diagnosed by high TPO and/or high TG thyroid antibodies
Autoimmune thyroid disease with goitre is Hashimoto’s
Autoimmune thyroid disease without goitre is Ord’s thyroiditis.
Both are autoimmune and generally called Hashimoto’s.
Significant minority of Hashimoto’s patients only have high TG antibodies (thyroglobulin)
Low vitamin levels are extremely common when hypothyroid, especially with autoimmune thyroid disease
20% of autoimmune thyroid patients never have high thyroid antibodies and ultrasound scan of thyroid can get diagnosis
In U.K. medics hardly ever refer to autoimmune thyroid disease as Hashimoto’s (or Ord’s thyroiditis)
Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins
Testing options and includes money off codes for private testing
Medichecks Thyroid plus BOTH TPO and TG antibodies and vitamins
medichecks.com/products/adv...
Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes BOTH TPO and TG antibodies, cortisol and vitamins
bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...
Only do private testing early Monday or Tuesday morning.
Link about thyroid blood tests
thyroiduk.org/testing/thyro...
Link about Hashimoto’s
thyroiduk.org/hypothyroid-b...
Symptoms of hypothyroidism
thyroiduk.org/signs-and-sym...
Tips on how to do DIY finger prick test
support.medichecks.com/hc/e...
Medichecks and BH also offer private blood draw at clinic near you, or private nurse to your own home…..for an extra fee
Just TSH, Ft4 and Ft3 test - £32
monitormyhealth.org.uk/thyr...
10% off code here
thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...
Monitor My Health also now offer thyroid and vitamin testing, plus cholesterol and HBA1C for £65
(Doesn’t include thyroid antibodies)
monitormyhealth.org.uk/full...
10% off code here
thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...
What are your most recent TSH, Ft4 results
Thank you. I'm just looking for personal experiences of how people felt/feel.
When my FT3 was low I was physically exhausted often stuck on sofa all day then fed up at being so exhausted
Like many members adding small dose T3 prescribed alongside Levothyroxine has been very beneficial
Hi thank you for sharing. Would you mind telling me what your ft3 was?
Very beneficial as in you have normal energy now?
You can read my profile
Hi I just went through your profile and can't see what your ft3 originally was.
Depends on when within 30 years on Levothyroxine
When on just 75mcg (TSH around 2 ) FT3 was below range
I only found that out in 2016 when got access to results online. At time I was in wheelchair or bedridden
On 125mcg for about 15 years
High Ft4 - usually 20 (12-22)
FT3 around 4.5 (3.1-6.8)
Took a year improving low vitamin levels after going strictly gluten free
FT3 remained low
Dio2 heterozygous helped get T3 on NHS
Okay thank you for sharing. Very interesting.
I will rephrase. Has anyone had chronic fatigue and/or depresssion with an FT3 in range- similar to mine (ie not bottom).
Yes, I need FT3 over 5 to feel OK mentally
Okay thank you for sharing! What happens to you when its lower than 5?
I just feel slightly to very depressed all the time for no obvious reason - I mean nothing has to happen to make me feel that way - and I worry about burglars and house fires for no good reason.
Meaning that the fatigue and depression weren't related to your thyroid?
I suggest you need to look at the bigger picture
This list of symptoms may help you understand that fatigue and depression are common signs of hypothyroidism.
thyroiduk.org/signs-and-sym...
Your FT3 is low so is very likely the cause of your fatigue and depression....but not exclusively.
Correcting/ optimising low thyroid levels is a sensible start in this case
Also, if your T3 level is low the body's metabolism slows down, and this often results in fatigue.
The brain needs a lot of T3 so if the level is low it can result in cognitive impairment and depression.....again not exclusively
Adequate T3 is required to promote oxygen delivery to tissues....including the brain.
As already stated we can draw no definitive conclusions without current lab results....anything else is speculation.
One person's experience is not necessarily what will resolve another person's problem.
You may first need to optimise essential nutrients ( vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin) or increase your levothyroxine.
If your conversion is poor you may need to add a little T3
However we are now going round in circles here, so I suggest you refresh your stated knowledge by reading the various responses you have received, which explain the relationship between depression, fatigue and both thyroid function and (replacement) thyroid hormones.
Good luck
I know all this thank you. I know how to treat and what optimal means.
I am just looking for personal experiences.
I fail to understand why finding other people's personal experiences is so important to you given that most peoples experiences will differ from yours.
When offered advice you repeatedly say "you know all this" re diagnosing and treatments yet you persist in making the same request when it is patently clear that other people's personal experiences and treatments are unlikely to reflect, or resolve, your own issues.
Instead, investigating your labs and your symptoms most likely would
Are you hoping that someone with an FT3 lab result of 4.9 (3.2-6.8) pmol/L, the same result as you, is going to appear and tell you how they optimised their labs and resolved their symptoms ...so that you can try their protocol?
It doesn't work that way.
You need to look at the whole picture because looking at FT3 in isolation is not going to answer your question.
I'm just trying to understand what we can do to help you....that is what we aim to do here.
I hope someone can
Okay I'll edit my post and re-phrase my question. But I'm still only looking for other people's experiences, not personal advice.
I've re-written my post. Not sure if I need to reword the title too.
Are u asking this for research purposes? I would think since each person with thyroid issues experiences everything differently it’s hard to say with certainty that low FT3 would cause depression…. It seems to me that people with thyroid problems are depressed because doctors ignore their pleas for help….. I know from my personal experience I was a raging lunatic until T3 was added to my T4 but I had also lost my thyroid at that point when my moods went insane ..:. I was a seriously scary person my temper would go from nothing to 100 if someone said anything that annoyed me which was often… I occasionally still have glitches with my temper but now it takes more to get my hair up but when it does it would be in the agitators best interest to walk away…. Never had temper glitches until I became thyroid-less so maybe for me it does come down to low FT3.
I have been fatigued for 7 years … thyroid probably.
No not for research, for myself. I'd like to hear from people who had depression or chronic fatigue caused by sub-optimal ft3.
It would be very easy to say if suboptimal FT3 could cause depression, if someone raised their ft3 and their depression lifted. I'm looking for these people.
The problem with what your asking is not everyone will experience issues with low FT3 or actually even know if their depression or fatigue is related to low FT3 …. Doctors don’t even test FT3 for the majority of us and they don’t even consider issues of low thyroid as being a root cause of depression or fatigue at least it hasn’t for me and actually I keep my sadness when I have it to myself along with weight gain and palpitations for fear of doctors reducing my already small thyroid dose.
I hope you get enough people to confirm your suspicions.
When I was on 20mcg of T3, without any T4, ie badly under medicated, I was referred to psychiatrists on two separate occasions. I would not be alive now if I had had to continue like that. Since being on 40mcg of T3 only a day, my depression has lifted, but not completely. I replied to you earlier about taking Methylated multi B vitamins; they have most certainly allowed me to become a much more normal person in every way. You replied that you are already on methylated B12 and folate. Perhaps the all in one supplements will help you, as they contain other ingredients that will help. We need to take all of the nine B vitamins and biotin which are in the methylated multi B vitamins, so that they balance each other. So, I personally, need both daily T3 and the methylated multi B vitamins. I can honestly say that they changed my life
Hi Tabba, with suboptimal FT3 I had depression and chronic fatigue symptoms which improved on T3 but we can't conclude that suboptimal FT3 causes depression and cfs - it could be correlation rather than cause. I'm curious, please do tell us, what is it you want to know exactly and why? Is it that you want to be able to state something like that you haven't had a mental health illness, ie depression, but a physical disorder (low FT3) which caused depressive symptoms?
Hi thanks for your reply. That's exactly what I wanted to hear- people like you whose chronic fatigue and depression improved from raising ft3 from suboptimal to optimal. It gives me hope.
Do you mind me asking how bad was your fatigue before and has it completely gone now?
I don't mind you asking Tabba and will reply if you will kindly reply to my question about why you are asking.
Because it gives me hope that people have improved or cured their depression or chronic fatigue by raising their ft3 from in-range, but sub-optimal to optimal.
Sorry Tabba, I misunderstood and didn't realise you meant sub-optimal but in range, I doubt if mine was still in range. If it helps my T4 was less than 5 in a range of 10 - 24.5 and TSH over 95 in a range of 0.2 - 5.5, but I don't have the T3 results because I am between houses with everything packed away. However I used to work in a Psychiatric Unit as part of a University Teaching Hospital and I know that T3 can relieve depression if it's too low. It helped my chronic fatigue very much but that improvement has not been sustained. That said, I haven't been seen for 3 years because of the house move and the Consultant moving countries so I lost contact with the hospital and it's possible my T3 has dropped.
Hi thanks for your reply. Ah okay yes I specifically meant in range.
Absolutely! I was bedbound with a FT3 of 4.9- mine needs to be slightly over 100% through the range for me to feel well and energised
Thank you for your reply! You are the only person who seems to understand my question phew! Yes I want to hear from people like you!
I'm not looking for how to treat or what optimal means- I know all of that!
I want to hear from people who felt shit like me! And have hopefully improved.
Slightly over the range thats interesting- thanks for sharing. Did you have to give up work before?
Yes I was severely Ill- pretty much bedbound for 2 years… unable to get up and down stairs, bathe myself or do anything much at all. 2.5 years on now from finding out I had hashimotos I’m feeling really well and gradually rebuilding my strength after all my muscles withering away from so long bed bound. Mental health stuff was never part of the picture for me… just totally and uttter bone crushing exhaustion and pain. I’m now training to become a naturopathic doctor and my area of speciality will be thyroid and autoimmunity !
Wow thats amazing well done! I can't believe how you wouldn't be depressed with being bed bound and feeling so ill! I cant believe that doesnt make people feel low.
Would you mind sharing how you raised your ft3 ie dose and timings?
Also was your range the same as mine? I dont understand why the range matters as surely 4.9 is just 4.9.
Yes I did feel extremely low due to being bedbound but not depression as such. I’m pretty mentally resilient.
I can’t tell you reference ranges off the top of my head but I can tell you that o felt dreadful until it got to at least 80% through range.
Yes it’s mad- different labs using different ranges depending on population samples coming through their doors.
My journey has been one of delving for root causes through functional medicine model. It wasn’t just about optimising thyroid hormone levels, vit/ mineral levels, adrenals and nutrient status. I’ve healed my gut through strict diet and gut protocols, worked on NS regulation using various hormetic stressors, and currently detoxing my body of a significant mycotoxin load which has been driving the autoimmunity in the first place.
I currently take 100 levo and 30t3.
Levo and 20 t3 at 6 am and 100mcg t3 at 3-4pm.
I first started on medication just over a year ago- NDT.. but it didn’t work for me so I swapped to synthetics and increased my dosages based upon monitoring my BBT, blood pressure, heart rate and how I felt. I started synthetic t4 and t3 combo last September .. so it’s taken me 5 months from starting meds to getting my well. I attribute the relatively quick turnaround to all the ground work I put in for over a year when I knew I had hashimotos but was ‘subclinical’ and not yet medicated.
Levo and 20 t3 at 6 am and 100mcg t3 at 3-4pm.
LucyYoga you meant 10mcg T3 at 3-4pm
Hello again Tabba, range matters because it varies from lab to lab. Sometimes the range for TSH was 0.2 - 5.5, other times 0.5 - 10 so a TSH of 4.9 in the first is moving towards too high whereas in the second it's mid-range. (I've used TSH because I don't have a note handy of T3 range differences)
Right okay, but Im looking specifically for people whose suboptimal ft3 caused depression or chronic fatigue.
I thought you said below that your suboptimal ft3 wasnt causing depression/chronic fatigue?
IMO the most obvious reasons for still feeling chronic fatigue and depression whilst on T4/T3 combo is likely low cellular T3 ( either due to not being on enough thyroid meds, due to either too high or low cortisol impeding the T3 actually getting into the cells/being metabolised, or RT3/ Dio3 enzyme activation blocking the T3 getting into the cell nuclei.
It could also be low iron/ vit and mins or poor gut or liver health impeding conversion (60 % t4 to 3 conversion takes place in liver and 20% in gut).
There are other more nuanced reasons but those stand out as the most obvious to me
Hiya, yep I get all of those things atm. I don’t know about my T3 though, so might not be much help? I’m requesting a blood test this week though so can compare notes then if it might help?
Hi I think that there can be many causes of depression and chronic fatigue. So I was specifically interested in people who found that it had been caused by suboptimal ft3.
It could be, or not but all of the symptoms you described mirror some of mine atm. If it turns iut to be that i’ll come back to this convo
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
Read about methylation. I had decades of severe depression despite eventually being on a large enough dose of T3. I have been taking Methyated multi B vitamins which have eradicated my depression.
amazon.co.uk/Vitamin-Comple...
I take these Methylated multi B vitamins which work well
Thank you I've taken methylated b12 and folate
I had low mood, could barely walk, persistent headache, poor eyesight when my T3 was very low. It was 3.9 (range 3.7- 6.0) so only converting 8%. At the time my T4 was at the top of its range. Eventually I was prescribed T3 plus t4 combined treatment. Within a few days of starting T3 the first thing I remember was that I could stand up straight with strength. Prior I was hunched over. I was 59 and felt like I was 90. My mood lifted and I became quite happy. I could walk normally. My eyesight improved. My skin improved. My headaches went and never returned 4 years on. I lost over 4st without trying as my metabolic rate was now fully functional. My cortisol was very low prior to t3 then shot up within 6 weeks and had remained good. My cholesterol prior to T3 got to 6.8, 6 weeks later it was 4.9. Now hovers around 5-5.5. Basically virtually everything that was wrong has been corrected with T3 introduction. I wanted to know hy I had such low T3. I did the DIO2 gene test through Regenerous laboratories promoted on here. My result was positive. I’d inherited a faulty gene from one parent, I think my mother. Now I know what and why. I’ve not looked back since going private to get my t3. I’m happier than I’ve felt in decades my mood is always pretty good and I feel very positive about life. I know your results for T3 aren’t as low as mine got but we all differ with what our bodies require to function properly. You may well need your T3 a bit higher. I’ve read that the only two doctors that can prescribe T3 are endocrinologists or psychiatrists- T3 does boost mental health.
fT3 3.5, 3.7, 4.1 in the last 3 years - range (3.1-6.8). I have fatigue all the time and on off depression amongst other symptoms. I relate to the hungover feeling plus add I feel mildly drunk at the same time. I would say the depression is a result of feeling crap. If I felt great, had no symptoms, I would be very much less or not depressed. I am not diagnosed or on treatment. Cannot offer a recovery story (ie. improvement with a higher level of fT3) as not there yet but working on things currently. So, normal fT3 (albeit on the low side of the normal range) with fatigue and some depression, yes.
I am exactly the same slowly got worse over the last three years,wake up every morning feeling like I have an hangover with chronic fatigue and depression
Symptoms of low ft4 and upper normal ft3?
Low FT4, Normal TSH, Fluctuating FT3
TSH, FT4 & FT3 normal! (?)
Excessive fatigue or is it normal?
Is fatigue normal with optimal levels?
