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programme Doctors on BBC 1: if anybody wants to... - Thyroid UK
programme Doctors on BBC 1
Written by
elwins
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46 Replies
•
SlowDragonAdministrator
This post in reference in recent “Doctors” drama programme
the comment by an actor playing a GP who told a patient who hadn’t received her prescription…..that she could “go a few days without her replacement thyroid hormones”
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
told she had to wait two weeks for an appointment for a prescription review.
Doctor: What meds are you on?
Mrs Angry: Levothyroxine
Doctor: It won’t hurt you to go a few days without those!
Appalling. I have complained. Will Thyroid UK be complaining Slowdragon?
Going without for a couple of days does not bother you (i went 5 days without due to a national shortage) and did not notice any change it takes several days after starting to take them before their is a noticeable difference. To stop taking them for a short time(should) not be noticeable to most people as it is the average amount in your body over a month to 6 weeks that makes any physical difference, what most people would notice is the mental effect where the person believes there must be a difference as they notice that theyare not taking the tablets, if you give them a placebo in place of the real tablet over 90% of people does not notice the difference between the real tablet or the placebo. I saw a documentary on TV about taking thyroxine or the placebo and near the end of the program all the people were asked which tablet did they think they were taking and over 75% of them said that they were taking the real tablet when they were told which tablet they were on some of the ones who were on the real tablets stated that they were on the placebo, under 10% of the ones taking the real tablets believed they were on the placebo, out of the ones who were taking the placebo almost all of them believed that they were taking the real tablet. Some of the ones on the placebo said that they were happy to keep taking them even though they knew that they were taking the placebo, one thing that the study did find was that even that they were not taking any drug to help with their thyroxine they did actually bring their thyroxine level back up to what it should be, so that just thinking that they were on medication to bring their thyroid level up so for some people there was no medication required.(The numbers may be slightly out as it was a while since I watched the program)
You are correct re "a few days" won't matter and also about the power of "what we believe" having an affect.
As far as I am aware, the body likes "consistency" and after 2 weeks it might notice it's previous balance has gone awry and then gets into "compensation mode" to keep itself going e.g. producing more adrenaline than desirable. Because of that, the subsequent restoration of levo won't be quite so straight forward because of the "stress" of the previous 2 weeks so it will take time to get back to the previous balance. Of course the previous balance may not have been that good before so the "shock" would be greater and ditto recovery. I hope that makes some sense and I'm not just waffling out loud!
She told she had to wait two weeks for an appointment for a prescription review - so that would be more than a few days (minimum).
around 1-2 weeks I start to notice but I don’t know the context of the program
• in reply toPoppy_Ann
Can’t agree with much of that I’m afraid
Maybe so for someone on an optimal replacement dose but this programme present the character as a patient who was clearly unwell and struggling. Although he said a few days her appointment was in two weeks with no tablets left. And no offer of blood tests in the meantime. I've gone without when over replaced but I definately noticed it after a week and my levels were too high to start with hence stopping.
The GP didn't consult just made a decision in the middle of the waiting area surrounded by other patients watching & listening. She didn't agree it was inflicted on her as a punishment. Very different to a clinical based decision.
Good point about a blood test, which was not even mentioned! So, what was the doctor even going to do in the F2F appointment in 2 weeks? ! How would he be able to 'review her medication'?! (And the programme is unrealistic in that patients' reviews are F2F anyway - my last 2 were phone appointments with 2 different GPs that I'd never even met!)
• in reply toKacey12
The doctor did say he couldn’t review without blood tests. That was the reason he gave for not being able to see her then.
I, like many, couldn’t understand why he couldn’t issue a script for two weeks supply pending an appt for review.
And on the point of those dastardly annual 'reviews' which are nothing more than a tick box so they get paid, I had an interesting experience. They did my bloods back in May then they cancelled two appointments with a medical practioner (not nurse even) on the third appointment face to face in August she said my scales aren't working how much do you weigh? I was tempted to pick a number that would please her but quoted my last weigh in at the hospital three months ago and told her so. She said. Oh you weigh less than lady year, well done. She then said my blood results were too old and the pharmacist wouldn't accept them now so I needed more blood tests. Words failed me. Not often Im left speechless. She did not however with hold treatment..... Small blessings I suppose!! The pharmacist rang me next day to discuss my medication. She said oh noo we don't need to repeat, all is well I'm happy with your bloods. Any queries.? Given I wasn't expecting her call I was too thrown to gather my wits. Just glad I hadn't trailed across city early dawn to get them redone. She cancelled the blood request.
Do I feel held to ransome over my repeat prescription meds? Yes!!! It's OK for them to take months to follow through but not me.... I just play the required game for peace, harmony & continuity & suck it up!
I wasn't review by a doctor... Am not sure what happens if there is a problem do you get to see God? Oops typo meant Doctor? 🙄
I doubt that is absolutely correct. The healthy thyroid produces T4 and T3 24 7 and it does this from its total iodine reserve including recycling of T4 and T3. But that involves the healthy thyroid gland and the TSH feedback loops which also affect intracellular conversion and which is missing from thyroid compromised patients. On top of that, consider T4 is not inert, there is a significant feedback and feed forward dynamic equilibrium which is challenged by sudden changes and can lead to disequilibrium and health effects within days. Yes correct, the patient probably won't die if if the total T4 reserve was sufficient but without the thyroid gland to up-cycle iodine it is dependent on free T4 in exchange with total T4, new T4 cannot be produced and it is impossible to know without taking a blood test whether there are sufficient T4 reserves to fuel the system. Whether there have been clinical trials using placebo or not is kind of irrelevant because it cannot be universally applied; once you are in thyroid pathology you have to go by a detailed symptomatic assessment and blood tests and even these are only a snapshot. practical indication of this comes from when we change our own dose and the effects of changing it too much too soon. From experience I would never change my dose by more than 10 to 20% over a few weeks and 100% reduction would be challenging and disruptive to homeostasis. I know it probably won't kill but… it is irresponsible to suggest that it's okay to go without for so long in such a blasé fashion.
• in reply toHashihouseman
Aah. Do we have another doctor in our midst? Or did you just like the name?
Hashihouseman• in reply to
I was thinking of the fictional TV doctor House who puzzles weird conditions, which is what thyroid seems to be to most GPs! Whatever I know comes from the same sources the actual doctors could use to inform themselves and puzzle it out so patients don't have to.
• in reply toHashihouseman
Thank you. That’s very interesting. Now I understand the origin of the House in your name. Quite clever actually!
You are very lucky then. It is probably an individual reaction. I once stayed overnight at a friends house in a very stressful situation (for her, not me) and I was helping out. My routing and concentration were scrambled and I forgot to take my thyroid meds that morning. At about 6:30 in the evening I felt ill and was on the point of collapse and only then did I realise I hadn't taken my meds that morning. Now I do take Armour so maybe it was the T3 I was lacking and couldn't go without for ~12 hours, but I can tell you that I have never missed a dose since. I even carry a small 3 day dose in my bag incase I get into some unforeseen emergency.
It on BBC iPlayer that's how I found it...
TiggerMeAmbassador
Thank you for getting in touch. Points of View has now finished for the Summer, but we are back in the Autumn!
It's OK to go without levothyroxine for a few days if it is unavoidable, so I don't see this as the issue. But why make an association between hypothyroidism and bad behaviour? They could have easily chosen some minor unspecific symptom. It seems somebody had an agenda.It's also unfair to GP surgeries. Although most are pretty hopeless now they would offer to get a prescription done within a day or a few hours.
If I have time I'll take a look at it. Does anyone have an idea how far into the program this occurs. I'd rather not watch from the beginning!
No not watched this prog for a long time. Perhaps try the last one or two? Or ask "elwins" direct?I have occasionally missed my med for a day, but a few days without wouldn't be good at all.
I pulled it up on Iplayer on the laptop and skipped through to the bits where people are standing at the reception desk Episode 87 Series 24
It seems somebody had an agenda.
Surely not, "WHO could that be?" 
• in reply tojimh111
I don’t think they did link hypothyroidism with bad behaviour. That would presuppose that they had any idea of what Levothyroxine actually was.
The focus was on zero tolerance. The ‘drug’ could as easily have been HRT
jimh111• in reply to
I will have to see it to judge.
Be warned it's basic Jim and the Acting script is very poor.... Still it's giving the wrong idea about Hypothyroidism.... I just hope the follow up programmes shows the staff getting into a whole heap of trouble for what they did! Or didn't more to the point. 🤣😂
You need to watch bits as they show her struggling before this happened at the surgery. They show her trying to sort it out. I fast scrolled on iPlayer to catch the relevant bits. I have to say the staff were very antagnostic and unhelpful. She does try to negotiate several times.The whole presentation is poor but it's clear she probably will need an increase....
• in reply towaveylines
While we as members of this forum are focussing on the hypothyroid aspects, I think the whole question of the way that patients are treated by GPs and receptionists is highlighted.
I’ve been trying to get a GP appointment for three months. It’s like pulling teeth. On line triage is the favoured method of communication but sadly these seem to be ‘triaged’ by the reception staff and I’ve now been “allocated” 3 times to the pharmacist.
He’s an excellent source of information about drugs but that isn’t what I want.
waveylines• in reply to
Sorry to hear this.... That's just awful. Can you request that you are seen by a doctor?!! Are they ignoring your requests? GP surgeries are a mess and I wonder how safe they are tbh... If u can't get an app people are sent to a&e now they are over flowing and can't cope.
My GP kindly told me that they do not offer any care or support post op. If I have any concerns I must approach the hospital not them. I can only approach the GP Surgery for unrelated health concerns. (I am meant to figure out what is and isn't related) I did try with my last op when I developed a water infection. They were angry and told me not to bother them. I had to go back yo thrbjodoutsl a few miles away and wait in a side room of the ward to be seen by a harassed and overly stretched doctor from the ward. She was lovely. It took the whole day. There is no care anymore. It's broken.
• in reply towaveylines
Your experience echoes mine and sums up the general malaise. They can’t be bothered. No appts available for x weeks and why do you want to see the doctor anyway? What are your symptoms and how long have you had them?
Jeez. I can’t be bothered.
By the way, unless yo thrbjodoutsl is a place in Wales with which I’m unfamiliar - I think you have a typo 🤣
• in reply tojimh111
Oh come on Jim. Steel yourself. It’s all in a good cause!
You have to watch the whole episode to see the context.
Did the story line continue?
• in reply toTiggerMe
Yes. High level meeting about security. Occupied most of program. Tune in today (Thurs) at 1.45 pm to see Mrs Angry return asking to see Practice Manager
It's so bloomin hot here I might have to 😬 perhaps she'll melt in a hypo state and they will see the error of their ways and that her anger is down to being undermedicated in the first place.... or she might run amok and murder them all and torch the place... the joy of day time drama 🤣
• in reply toTiggerMe
🤣
when I first had hypothyroidism (over 25 years ago) I would accidentally forget to take levothyroxine - and it definitely would affect how I felt quite quickly. Within a few days I’d feel sluggish, constipated, foggy brained - and then think ‘oh I’ve forgotten my meds. The mistake here is to think that if ‘a lot of’ or ‘most’ people could get by for 5 days or two weeks is to suppose we all react the same to levothyroxine - and given the breadth of experiences reported on this forum we palpably do not react to medications in the same way. I for one feel like complaining because there are many aspects to dissect in terms of how much care and support we get from our GP’s and the programme could have shown a much more in-depth supportive and knowledgeable portrayal of how a GP could have supported their patient.
• in reply toShatteredofLee
I’ve just made the point about the way it highlights general issues about doctor/patient relationships.
I accept that they get some aggressive and abusive patients. That’s the nature of the beast I’m afraid and the lack of accessibility to GPs has sadly exacerbated this problem.
It’s not a new problem as anyone who works with the public will tell you. As a teacher and headteacher I encountered ‘difficult’, aggressive and abusive pupils - and parents - on multiple occasions. I dealt with them. It’s about having the correct skill set to handle these situations. If you haven’t got the necessary skills, there’s training which can be accessed.
I never had a situation escalate to the point where I felt that my personal safety was at risk. Excluding pupils, banning parents from the school premises, removing patients from the GP list etc are not solutions. These issues need to be resolved not removed
I think they were trying to make the point that the patient had missed their medicine review, and had ignored a letter sent to them by the surgery. If you do that and then leave it until you run out of tablets, surely the patient must accept some responsibility. Plus she was shown to be very aggressive and rude to the receptionists and the doctor.
As it’s an ongoing story I think there maybe more to it that a bad tempered patient, we will see.
This reflects exactly how it is at my practice. Doctors could not care about you being without medication for two weeks. At least levothyroxine has a six week half life.
Did a quick skim through the programme, it’s just sewage, bad script and awful acting. Makes Crossroads look slick and professional. Why do they always have to have Brummies in these terrible programmes? It’s discrimination.
Levothyroxine is only mentioned once and it is reasonable to withhold a prescription if the patient doesn’t have a review (having been given good notice). It wasn’t about hypothyroidism and most people won’t know what levothyroxine is so I wouldn’t take offence.
• in reply tojimh111
As a born and bred Brummie I have to agree. I think it’s the Brummie accent that irritates most people including me. That said, it’s certainly not discrimination. The series is set in Birmingham. It’s no more discrimination than having Scousers in the Liver Birds or Geordies in When the Boat Comes in. Happy valley attracted huge viewing figures and had characters speaking with a Lancashire accent.
I think the actors in Doctors exaggerate their accents for effect. I’ve never sought to hide my accent but I certainly don’t speak like this. Everywhere I go though I’m “spotted”.
The accent in this soap is more akin to the Black Country accent. My mum hailed from the Black Country and took real umbrage if anyone dared to call her a Brummie 😀
• in reply tojimh111
Glad you survived watching this ‘sewage’. Whether you like it or not, it’s watched by many.
The reference to Levothyroxine didn’t offend me. It annoyed me because it’s inaccurate.
Well, Mrs Angry aka Frankie appeared at the surgery with her gobby husband and a friend. She’d just received a letter from Practice Manager and wasn’t happy to hear that she’d been struck off.
They created a rumpus in the waiting room and were eventually escorted to the Practice Manager’s office with Dr Haskey in tow. Situation escalated and police were called. Frankie and friends bid a hasty retreat before arrival of police. Police arrive and Dr Haskey describes the whole affair as a ‘minor inconvenience’ and refuses to press charges. Police decided to pay her a visit anyway. Episode ends with Frankie’s husband threatening death and destruction to Dr Haskey. Think this may be the story of the year. Dr Haskey had better watch his back 🙈
Mmm. Things are not always as they seem. Frankie may be hypothyroid but she may have other issues. Of course that doesn’t excuse the fact that the staff didn’t do well in their attempts to contain the situation and we mustn’t allow the main issue to be clouded by all the peripheral stuff.
We can’t get away from the fact that she was told by a doctor that she could do without Levothyroxine for a few days. Inexcusable
Frankie may well have forgotten what started this dispute - but I haven’t
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