Hello everyoneTrust u are all well
My son is going downhill
Several months on armour thyroid and no improvement.He has Hashimoto and if anything his symptoms have worsened
T3 was added 10mcg..but brought about palpitations and achy body.
Seen a functional practioner, Gps and now with a private Endo.
Don't know what to do where to go or say
Maybe look for another Endo?
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Thankyou
Sully66, Sometimes the ratio of T3/T4 in desiccated thyroid isn't right for the individual. Many people taking NDT have a very low T4 level and actually need to take a small dose of levothyroxine (e.g. 25mcg) alongside their NDT.
If you can post your son's most recent thyroid test results and the dose he was taking at the time, members may be better able to offer their thoughts.
How much Armour is your son taking and does he split the dose. I was taking Thyroid s for years and was well. Your son's FT3 is too low to feel well perhaps he requires an increase.
When I took Armour it was too fast working for me I preferred the Thyroid s because it has a slower release. Thousands of people do well on Armour if he is on the correct dose your son should get well. Good Luck.
HelloHis up to 4 grains of armour..he was splitting in day and now his not..my sons response is.."no different splitting or not"
Took T3 for couple of days..but stopped after feeling like death..symptoms have worsened
His gluten..soya and dairy free
Thankyou
His body is not responding to the Armour on 4 grains as it should I can see that. How did he add the T3 into the mix and what went wrong. How much was added. I have read about people taking even 6 grains and not responding but by adding in the extra T3 it helped.
OK so my son was taking 2 of armour and half grain of T3 in morning and then 2 armour in afternoon..was feeling so achy and just after a couple of days stopped t3 and he even reduced his armour to 3.5 grains.Brain fog fatigue.sleeping over 13hrs..his not functioning
Thankyou
When he was on 150 Levo what happened for him to change to NDT and when.
He stopped levo 5/6 yrs ago just feeling unwell..sent to this consultant..this hospital scans tests etc..he became totally frustrated with all medics..went cold turkey been on a strict diet regime .However over a year ago he was going downhill..my son wanted to see a functional practioner..no helpSo I said you need meds..he did his research and was comfortable to take with NDT
And has been last seven months
Thankyou
Bad reactions to ndt/T3 are often down insufficient serum iron and cortisol.
All nutrients must be optimal for good thyroid health but bad reactions or failure to feel any better despite increasing doses its the above. Note that its specifically serum iron in this situation not ferritin.
Only a full iron panel will tell you this and for cortisol its the saliva test. My preference is medichecks for these.
Thyroid is as much about optimal nutrients as the correct thyroid meds. Ndt/T3 is what I call “pickier”, especially for these two.
Its also obvious with those results thyroid levels are far from optimal.
If you ask Im sure someone will recommend the nutrients that need testing and advise on how to increase ndt but personally I wouldnt do that until serum iron and cortisol are optimal. Im speaking from personal experience and seen it many times in others
Im sure if you ask someone will recommend which other nutrients need testing just make sure to include the above
I recommend Paul Robinsons book Recovery with T3, tell you everything you could possibly need to get well with T3/ndt. Brilliant book
I totally agree about the iron and nutrients please have a go and then see what is going on.
ThankyouWill do
Was this Armour self purchased or from UK pharmacy?
I am not a medical professional. I have just collated helpful information available on adrenals found in different, reputable thyroid help books. Adrenals do not get enough recognition for their essential role in the effective metabolism of thyroid medication. For some people taking thyroid medication is enough to get adrenals working again, for others it isn’t.
If you are having problems raising/tolerating/having no benefit from/feeling worse from your thyroid meds consider cortisol -
"At least 50% of hypothyroid patients may have an adrenal problem and without discovering and treating that problem you will be unable to benefit from thyroid treatment." (Stop The Thyroid Madness, Janie Bowthorpe)
"Low cortisol causes T3 to work less effectively within the cells. This is because T3 and cortisol are partners within our cells. High cortisol also causes problems and can reduce the effectiveness of T3 within the cells, hence thyroid patients with high cortisol often complain of feeling hypothyroid even when they appear to have reasonable or low FT3 levels. When patients try to raise T3 levels in the presence of low cortisol, they may find that the body compensates for low cortisol by producing more adrenaline. This can cause anxiety, rapid heart rate, the feeling of heart palpitations etc. This is usually the adrenaline response rather than a direct issue with the T3. Very often, it is the low cortisol that is at the root." (Paul Robinson website)
"Whatever you may be told, adrenal insufficiency in thyroid disorders is very common indeed and should always be considered at the onset of treatment. Failure to respond to thyroid supplementation, or actually feeling less well, is likely more often than not to involve the low adrenal reserve syndrome." (Peatfield “how to look after your thyroid”)
"If, upon starting NDT [or T3], you experience symptoms, including anxiety, insomnia, shakiness, sweating, dizziness, feeling spaced out it's a strong sign that you may need adrenal support." (Tpauk website)
Adrenal testing: 4 point saliva test from Regenerus Labs + synacthen test (if doctor will do it!) to rule out anything more than adrenal insufficiency. Blood tests are inferior to saliva tests because bloods show what is total, saliva shows free and therefore available.
Interpreting saliva results: Morning sample must be the number at the top of the range, midday must be 75% through the range, afternoon must be 50% through range and evening must be below the top part of the range. If anything comes up lower than this, then this indicates low cortisol. (If cortisol is high then this can be lowered through Phosphorylated Serine)
Low Cortisol Treatment (after testing):
According to STTM:
Adrenal Cortex Extract (not whole adrenal gland): On waking 150mg, 100mg at noon, 50mg afternoon, 50mg evening. After 5 days on those doses you can do DATS (Daily Average Temperatures) - Measure BBT 3 times; 3 hrs after waking, 3 hrs after that, 3 hrs after that and add them up to make an average, do this 5 days in a row avoiding ovulation & menstruation. If there is more than 0.2 degrees fluctuation between the temps then Adrenal Cortex Extract needs to be increased. Increase Adrenal Cortex Extract until DATs become stable. If DATs do not ever become stable then Hydrocortisone may be needed. STTM states 25mg/day is a starting dose, broken down as: 10mg on waking, 7.5mg at noon, 5.5mg in afternoon, 2mg before bed. If DATs still won't stabilise then this could indicate an Aldosterone issue.
According to Peatfield:
Adrenal Cortex Extract: Anywhere from 150mg to 600mg in the morning and nothing after midday. He also recommends 20mg of Hydrocortisone for those who are not improved by Adrenal Cortex Extract.
According to Paul Robinson:
Research CT3M (Nb. Many do not find this effective).
Nb. Initially cortisol presence can increase thyroid hormone uptake so much that you may feel over stimulated/strange. Some advise to lower thyroid hormone dosing to let thyroid hormones run down a few days before starting ACE to avoid this.
Adrenal Cortex Extract brands: Adrenavive, Thorne, Klaire Labs
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