child development and maternal thyroid health

[HowNowWhatNow]

Hi

Our family dentist pointed out today that one of our children suffers from hypomineralisation of her back teeth.

They are discoloured - the enamel hasn’t properly developed around / within them. They will be more susceptible to caries than well developed teeth would.

The dentist said this is usually down to something that happened in the womb, as this is when these teeth develop.

She asked me if I took antibiotics at all during pregnancy, which I did not.

But I mentioned my thyroid condition and she said that, yes, that might (potentially) have been a factor.

What / where is the data on health conditions such as this and links, if any, to maternal hypothyroidism? Is it much discussed? Does anyone have children whose health condition is talked about in the same breath as their own thyroid issues?

thanks for all and any help!

[Tythrop]

My daughter is high functioning autistic and I developed autoimmune thyroid disease postpartum .I would be interested in your enquiry .

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to Tythrop]

thank you

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to Tythrop]

my first child is prob high functioning autistic / has sensory processing disorder and I developed post partum hypothyroiditis after having him.

In my first pregnancy my thyroid levels were borderline high. Higher than normal. But not commented on by my GP.

I developed full blown Hashimoto’s within the year.

When I was pregnant with my daughter my levels were monitored more closely - at my insistence - and my TSH came down to a more normal level. She has so far no signs of special needs but lots of pains and asthma and a blood clotting disorder.

[DaisyTed in reply to Tythrop]

I was actually at a webinar yesterday that mentioned they have found links between neurodiverse conditions in children and auto-immune conditions in the parents (they specifically mentioned Hashimoto’s). I developed a goitre shortly after having my son (who is autistic), and started thyroxine treatment. I know you can have Hashimoto's for a while before it gets to this stage so I thought this was very interesting and intend to do some reading up!

[Tythrop in reply to DaisyTed]

If only I had known then what I know now ...or more to the point if NHS had known .I had Glandular Fever about 2 years b4 preg, This I velieve kicked off the Hashi, but hay ho ,

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to DaisyTed]

Would it be possible please to share this webinar?

[DaisyTed in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

Ah sorry, it was actually just one part (on neurodiversity) of a whole day’s conference on fatigue, which you had to pay for - this was just mentioned as a passing comment. I will check and see if she gave any specific references. Conference details - vitality360.co.uk/fatigue20...

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to DaisyTed]

thank you

[arTistapple]

Very interesting. One of my granddaughters has experienced the same issue with back teeth. Luckily? she has a small mouth and those particular teeth have been removed. So many children have small mouths these days. Huge growth in orthodontistry. I remember many years ago a bit of research in Scotland showing that after the introduction of processed foods, changes even in the mouths of people who previously had good ‘bridges/jaws changed shape.

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to arTistapple]

I once overheard a plastic surgeon says - sitting in a train seat next to me - that he is very much in favour of children chewing gum because all that chewing helps build face up and chin shape, which leads to a more attractive and better defined profile / appearance.

[Zephyrbear in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

It certainly helped me when I got hit in the jaw by a patient having a fit when I was a student nurse many moons ago… switched to animal nursing not long after that! 😆

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to Zephyrbear]

Ouch

[arTistapple in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

Right that is interesting too. My absolute youngest granddaughter has also been told that her mouth is too small AND she never eats anything that needs chewing! I will be having a word. Thanks for bringing this up at this time. So useful. Off course it makes sense.

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to arTistapple]

Maybe replace breakfast cereals with chewy bread for a week?

Not sure what the chewiest bread is.

Am guessing meat and corn on the cob would be good for developing chewing.

I’d love to know more about chewy foods, if anyone here has an understanding.

[arTistapple in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

Crusty sourdough. But mine eats the centre and leaves the crusts. Yes you got me wondering what could be useful. Gum is not what I would chose for a lively seven year old in case they swallowed it having a carry on.

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to arTistapple]

How interesting that your granddaughter’s teeth were removed.

[arTistapple in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

Removed because they would rot, but also because of the small mouth. It was better those particular teeth were removed to make room for the healthier ones.

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to arTistapple]

Good list of chewy and hard food here:

burkeredfordorthodontists.c...

All things that orthodontists don’t like!

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

Wider discussion of benefits achieved from chewy food

advanceddentistrybutler.com...

[helvella]

It is a good question that deserves answering.

I can't do that - a quick look suggested there is little accessible literature. Indeed, not much written at all in PubMed.

europepmc.org/

However, I did notice that hypomineralisation can have genetic causes. Whilst you might have good grounds for considering thyroid as a cause, it might still be important to consider all possibilities.

[Alanna012]

I'd love to know the answer since both my children had this! In fact I was at one time accused by a dentist of brushing their teeth with Adult toothpaste when they were babies which they said caused the hypomineralisation and I was not believed when I denied it. They eventually all dropped out fortunately!

Interesting question thanks for asking it.

[humanbean in reply to Alanna012]

Not being believed by doctors make me feel so angry!

If something a patient says goes against their training then the knee-jerk reaction from doctors is always to blame the patient.

There are so many other possibilities :

1) The doctor was ill during training and missed the lectures on the subject.

2) The subject wasn't covered in training.

3) The doctor has missed the latest research on the subject.

4) They have never come across a patient discussing the same subject before.

5) The subject has never or rarely been studied by researchers before.

But no, doctors can't tolerate the idea they may be wrong and the patient is telling the truth, so they must blame the patient.

[Alanna012 in reply to humanbean]

Oh completely! It's happened to me so often, especially as the hypothyroid symptoms started to escalate that I started thinking racial prejudice must be responsible for the totally patronising, accusatory, and paternalistic way I was/am so often treated by consultants, doctors health providers.

Then I joined this forum, read others experiences and saw that nope, it's nothing to do with that, I'm not unique it's an actual systemic problem, perhaps uniquely British, I can only imagine it's something to do with having authority, or wanting to have authority.

[humanbean in reply to Alanna012]

I'm sure misogyny comes into it as well.

Paternalism and being patronised is something I've been subjected to many, many times.

[Mollyfan]

This is very interesting…… I found this article which suggests a link….

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/322...

[Hidden in reply to Mollyfan]

”These associations were not explained by maternal gestational thyroid hormones levels nor mitigated by gestational use of thyroid medications”

Eeeeek! 🤦‍♀️

[Marymary7]

What about the Father of the child having thyroid trouble, another thing to throw into the mix. I think my Dad had Hashimoto's although undiagnosed. I have that now and have suffered weak teeth although not this specific problem.

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to Marymary7]

Also not something I know anything about.

My husband and I both have a grandparent each who are from exactly the same area of Scotland.

That genetic similarity might also have something to do with it. Am not suggesting we are inbred, in the sense of sharing near family members. Same city.

[PurpleNails Administrator]

Interesting post. 

Unless diagnosed with a thyroid issue before pregnancy most do not have thyroid screened during it.

I went through my medical records & I’ve never had a test until years after the birth of mine.  I’ve only ever had abnormal results.

So I may potentially been hyper or even hypo.  I’ve had negative levels for antibodies- TPO / Trab / TG & TSI when tested . I now have diagnosis of hyper nodule. 

The genetic references are interesting as mine have autism/ learning difficulties & heart defects which are not known as genetic but are so rare in general and in siblings is has baffled doctors.

 We always assumed it was the treatment & particularly the medication which was given to them that caused the teeth damage, but the link for both may actually be genetic or thyroid.  

Their own limited thyroid tests have been “in range”. 

[Tythrop in reply to PurpleNails]

" abnormal results" ...would a GP recognise these if they stared them in the face

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to PurpleNails]

Both of my children have two immune deficiencies - the same ones as each other.

It might potentially save the NHS a lot of money if they actually took time to research this stuff. It’s not difficult - it just takes a cohort of people to monitor.

[klr31]

So maybe there's a link between thyroid problems in parents and autism in children? How interesting and surely research needs to be carried out.

Karen