Improving T4/T3 conversion with vitamins / minerals alone

[HotelHurricaine]

Hello,

I was wondering how many people here have managed to successfully improve T4/T3 conversion using vitamin / mineral supplementation alone?

I found one example when searching the site but hoping there are more!

🙏

[Charlie-Farley]

Hi HotelHurricaine

We are recommended to get our vitamins and minerals optimal in order to give the thyroid medication the best chance. Everything works together. The vitamins and minerals work in concert with thyroid meds. helvella

I stupidly stopped the B12 because I thought everything was now 'tickety boo' and my latest blood test shows same FT4 as last time but by FT3 is significantly lower. I'm back on the B12 and gently loading and will retest in 4 months or so. The test before last everything looked good. All vitamins and minerals were at good levels not just scraping into range. I've learnt a lesson I am eager to share so others can learn from my mistakes.

Only when you have everything optimised can you then see if there may be other factors at work. Tackling one variable at a time saves time. So it is advised to phase any supplementation so if a particular preparation is disagreeing with you it is easily identified. There is a Topics list on the page that links to posts on vitamins and minerals. Helvella, SeasideSusie and SlowDragon are prolific contributors to this subject. I follow their advice.

I'm pinning a screenshot so hopefully you can find where I'm talking about

[tattybogle in reply to Charlie-Farley]

is that 'topics' list a recent addition charliefarley? .. or have i just been blind for 3 yrs ?

[Charlie-Farley in reply to tattybogle]

No idea Tatty - I just noticed it on the right hand side as I was responding to this post! 🤣👍🤪

[HotelHurricaine in reply to Charlie-Farley]

thanks Charlie-Farley my b12 was top of range in my last test (was supplementing with sun lingua drops recommended here) so I was advised to stop taking them. Is it a case of testing every few months and going back on if they drop again? I’m beginning to see that this is not a simple process!

[Charlie-Farley in reply to HotelHurricaine]

I'm thinking I'm going to have to supplement going forward. Just not the loading dose - Yep it's going to be trail and error but I'm going to look back over my past tests and have a think about my past doses and see if I can plump for a midway dose that will maintain rather than overload. I definitely do not want ups and downs

[humanbean in reply to HotelHurricaine]

my b12 was top of range in my last test (was supplementing with sun lingua drops recommended here) so I was advised to stop taking them. Is it a case of testing every few months and going back on if they drop again?

Who advised you to stop taking them? A doctor? If it was a doctor it wouldn't surprise me. Whatever conditions caused your B12 to be low in the first place had presumably not changed, so by stopping supplementing your B12 was inevitably going to drop.

I don't have problems absorbing B12 but I did have problems with iron for a very long time. I once stopped taking my iron supplements after deliberately raising my level above range as part of an experiment I was doing on myself (I wanted to see what happened to my serum iron and my saturation). Having stopped my iron my ferritin level dropped from 170 (top of range was 150) to 80 in just four months. So I spent a very long time (months/years) after that trying to find my perfect maintenance dose and altering it as necessary. It varied from 2 - 5 iron tablets a week, but I only altered by one tablet a week at a time.

You should probably find your maintenance dose for B12 to keep it at the level where you want it. And don't forget that folate is essential for your body to make use of B12.

[HotelHurricaine in reply to humanbean]

It was someone on this forum. I posted my results last week and was recommended I stop taking. Now I'm confused!.

I was taking Solgar sub lingua B12 with B complex drops and result was 150 (37.5-150). This doesn't contain folate only folic acid and my folate came back low.

I moved to B Complex with folate (Thorne) - I see that also contains B12 so that's why.

So if I'm at top of range with supplementation there's no danger in this dose included in Thorne B Complex as maintenance?

[humanbean in reply to HotelHurricaine]

What was the B12 result that prompted someone to tell you to stop taking B12?

And do you know what your folate levels are?

Once a result is optimal people have to find their maintenance dose to keep it there.

A common problem is that people get their level of X to optimal and then stop taking it, their levels drop, they have to optimise again, and their levels go up and down like a yoyo.

If a result has become far too high after supplementing then giving up the supplement temporarily is a good idea - but once levels have dropped to optimal people need to find their maintenance dose. Taking more than necessary is just a waste of money. And in the case of most nutrients having too high a level is toxic.

Having high levels of B12 isn't toxic though, if it has been caused by supplementing. A high B12 having never supplemented could indicate something unpleasant might be happening. But once B12 has been supplemented that kind of information is lost.

academic.oup.com/qjmed/arti...

Another issue with B12 is that ranges are often too low at both top and bottom.

Some useful links on B12 :

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten...

perniciousanemia.org/b12/le...

perniciousanemia.org/b12/fo...

[HotelHurricaine in reply to humanbean]

Yes it was the B12 result that prompted someone to tell me to stop taking B12.

My folate levels were 11.2 nmol/L (8.83-45). I wasn't taking folate before. Am now in Thorne B Complex.

My B12 level was bang on top of range so should I wait and see if the amount in Thorne B complex is enough to maintain? Or add in some extra B12?

[tattybogle in reply to humanbean]

HB . this post , (reply from seasidesusie. re maintainence using B comlpex) healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[HotelHurricaine in reply to tattybogle]

Thank you! I couldnt find it - but I see "There's no need to continue with a separate B12. Once your level has reached 100 for Active B12 then a B Complex, which often contains 400mcg B12, should be enough." so all is good I think!

[tattybogle in reply to HotelHurricaine]

to go to your profile page which stores all you previous posts~ click on your name or the little round picture

[humanbean in reply to tattybogle]

Oh, I see. I hadn't realise the OP was on a B Complex as well as an extra B12. In which case I agree with SeasideSusie - giving up the extra B12 would be fine.

[TSH110 in reply to Charlie-Farley]

mystified can’t find the screenshot info perhaps it’s not on mobiles? I always access site via iPhone . What’s the steps to get there?

[Charlie-Farley in reply to TSH110]

Hi TSH110, yes it is on the PC or laptop view i'll go onto my phone and see if I can find an equivalent. Right found it! So if you are on a Phone iPhone or Android there's the post and replies then if you scroll down next bit after is 'Next Posts',

then scroll on a bit more there is 'Related Posts'

then under that there is 'Moderation Team'

then under that is 'Pinned Posts'

and then 'Topics'

I think though the Search Bar at the top is very useful for topics as well. If the search term is in the title it will definitely come up not sure if it looks in body of the post. Like the pinned posts too. I need a year off to read more lived experience and all the papers and the stuff Thyroid Canada are producing.

[Regenallotment]

I’ve improved my vitamins over the last 8-9 months from suboptimal to close to optimal with the exception of ferritin which is an ongoing battle.

My T3 has not budged from 35% through range in that time and T4 has increased with Levo increases each 8 week titration, so actually my conversion has got gradually worse. (One ferritin result was better in the middle of the 8 weeks and no impact on conversion there).

My ancestry dna (put through a free genetic genie analysis) shows DIO2 heterogeneity which explains poor conversion.

[HotelHurricaine in reply to Regenallotment]

Thank you for sharing Regenallotment I have learned here that this gene is a possibility for low converters.

I suppose I was wondering how many of us poor converters can improve with vitamin / mineral supplementation alone (all of which I’m now trying) and how many are down to the gene and will (I imagine) benefit from T3.

Reading here, the T3 journey looks complicated but clearly works for many. It just takes time to work out what’s right for us.

[humanbean in reply to HotelHurricaine]

I was wondering how many of us poor converters can improve with vitamin / mineral supplementation alone

Having good levels of cortisol is essential too - not too high, not too low. A saliva cortisol test is a good investment, in my opinion. I would suggest using Regenerus.

regeneruslabs.com/products/...

thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...

But there is also Genova Diagnostics too :

gdx.net/uk/products/adrenal...

thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...

Read the Thyroid UK links on ordering.

[HotelHurricaine in reply to humanbean]

Thank you @humanbean I have a medichecks saliva cortisol test here waiting to do - would you not recommend for nay reason?

[humanbean in reply to HotelHurricaine]

The reason we recommend Regenerus and Genova Diagnostics is because they have "sensible" references ranges that don't include zero as part of their "healthy" ranges, and they also include a test for DHEA in a saliva cortisol test. Medichecks doesn't. A DHEA result can tell you which direction your cortisol results are going. For example, a very low DHEA is often found in people who have had problems with cortisol for a long time and the trend is for the cortisol to continue getting worse.

I can't remember the ranges from Medichecks, but they give results that are of the form "less than 0.5", but the range is something like "less than 0.33". How is one supposed to know what that means?

Saliva cortisol ranges are supposed to give an indication of what a healthy level of cortisol is, but having a bottom of the range of zero is nonsensical. Having zero cortisol is probably only healthy for a corpse.

I'm not sure that you can return Medichecks tests that you've changed your mind about, so you might have to use it anyway and accept that the interpretation of the test will be inexact and flawed.

[HotelHurricaine in reply to humanbean]

Thank you. Will use it for now. 🙄

[arTistapple]

My vitamin supplementation made only a tiny improvement to conversion. Something like 0.2. Can’t remember exactly at the moment. If I check and that is different, I will repost. However I have had a lot of trouble recently after attempting to implement T3. Things have got out of hand with my other meds and supplements. Trying to get everything back on track. I have a lot to compare supplementation with now - so jury is still out! In thyroid terms 0.2 might make a heck of a difference in how you feel.

[HotelHurricaine in reply to arTistapple]

it’s true that 0.2 might make more of a difference than it sounds! Keep us posted. Good luck getting everything back on track. It all takes up so much headspace, remembering what to take when, but hoping that once in a routine it will do so less.

[Dadof5]

When I was first diagnosed in 2016 I could swear I found information that an iodine deficiency could be part of the problem and that the doctor could do a test by putting a drop of iodine on your skin to see how fast it was absorbed. The quicker it was absorbed the worse your deficiency could be. I never took it any further apart from buying some salt with added iodine. I honestly don’t know whether I imagined it tho.

[Singwell in reply to Dadof5]

That sounds like a non allopathic medical approach. I've heard it too. I decided not to go that route. The impact of taking iodine appears to be quite complicated.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Dadof5]

You might have read it.

But it has been debunked. Have a look at my document about it:

helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...

The descriptive text, and pictures (if any), always seem to describe "white" skin. Even if it had been proved, am not convinced it could ever work on those with the highest levels of melanin?

Singwell

[Dadof5 in reply to helvella]

Interesting article. But as I said I didn’t take it further.