Laser treatment?

[The-Wasp]

Has anyone tried a series of laser treatment for thyroid regeneration? If so, was it worth it? Thank you!

[tattybogle]

I've never heard of such a thing for 'thyroid regeneration' can you tell us a bit more . eg . what you have read about it / and where ?

[The-Wasp in reply to tattybogle]

Isabella Wentz (the Thyroid Pharmacist) mentioned laser in her books and articles. A surprising number of patients were able to discontinue thyroid medicine. Here's one page where she discusses it: thyroidpharmacist.com/artic... She mentions it 58 times on this page, but you might want to do a search for laser at it takes awhile for her to go into detail.

[tattybogle in reply to The-Wasp]

Thanks

[tattybogle in reply to tattybogle]

Certainly 'food for thought' .. but we should probably consider the implications of this study (on mice).. someone added it in the comments below Isabella Wentz's article

If it stimulates the bits of the thyroid we do want .. it might also stimulate the bits we don't ......

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/270...

"Low-Level Laser Therapy Promoted Aggressive Proliferation and Angiogenesis Through Decreasing of Transforming Growth Factor-β1 and Increasing of Akt/Hypoxia Inducible Factor-1α in Anaplastic Thyroid Cancer"

[The-Wasp in reply to tattybogle]

Good point! Thanks for responding 😀

[Jaydee1507 Administrator]

That I know of there is nothing that will regenerate the thyroid. Where have you seen this please?

[The-Wasp in reply to Jaydee1507]

Isabella Wentz (the Thyroid Pharmacist) mentioned laser in her books and articles. A surprising number of patients were able to discontinue thyroid medicine. Here's one page where she discusses it: healthunlocked.com/redirect... She mentions it 58 times on this page, but you might want to do a search for laser at it takes awhile for her to go into detail.

[ Link edited - hopefully it is the same as on the earlier reply? You cannot copy and paste links on the platform as text. ]

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to The-Wasp]

I think if it worked and was widely available people here would be all over it.

Quote from the article: "Just to back up here, I want to state that weaning off thyroid hormones is never the first thing I recommend for people with Hashimoto’s. Rather, my first recommendation is often to optimize thyroid hormones by using thyroid medications!"

[The-Wasp in reply to Jaydee1507]

Okay, thanks for your input! The studies are pretty impressive though.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to The-Wasp]

This is a link to a search of EuropePMC for relevant papers:

europepmc.org/search?query=...

[The-Wasp in reply to helvella]

Thank you Helvella! 😀

[tattybogle in reply to The-Wasp]

one of the commenters said the russians have a long history of research and use on this . since about 1990.

i do wonder if we should pay more attention to the different directions medicine has taken in russia ... i read something a while ago about how ,instead of going in the the western direction of developing broad spectrum antibiotics ,the USSR had gone in the direction of 'phages' instead .

Then last year i read stuff from western scientists getting really exited about these potentially world changing 'new' thing's called 'phages' that they have found hanging about all over the place in the natural environment .... (under park benches / in the sewage system/ at the edge of a pond/ on the doorknob of barclays bank ) and the exiting potential for their use to target specific bacteria when our antibiotics don't work anymore eg (haven't read this one, just an example ) pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/270...

[The-Wasp in reply to tattybogle]

It's true! Western medicine is about profit. It's easier to monetize someone taking pills their whole life than a laser.

[Mlinde in reply to tattybogle]

Actually, it was the Soviet Union in the 1930s that did impressive work on phages.

I think there's an institute in what is now Georgia that is still doing work with phages as an alternative to antibiotics. I'll try and find the reference.

[Mlinde in reply to Mlinde]

Here's one link:

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

[tattybogle in reply to Mlinde]

Thanks Mlinde

[Mlinde in reply to tattybogle]

Appropos the work done inthe 1930s, apparently it was prompted by the fact that they didn't have the tech or the resources to pursue lines of research that were being conducted in the West, so it was a practical alternative for them.

[Pearlteapot]

lasermedicine.co.uk/laser-t...

The same protocol on offer in London

[The-Wasp]

Yes, I've been in touch with her --Ruth Phypers at 10 Harley street. I'm thinking of doing her treatment.

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to The-Wasp]

Please note that many of our patients continue with Laser Therapy for Hypothyroidism on a monthly or bi-monthly basis to maintain thyroid function on-going. We can help you assess if this is the right course of action for you.

Fees

A course of 6 Laser Therapy treatments is £1,400.

Looks like a mighty expensive way of treating hypothyroidism!

[The-Wasp in reply to Jaydee1507]

Yes, that's true, but if it works I think it's worth it.

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to The-Wasp]

At potentially £5,600 a year, plus having to live near where the treatmment is for fortnightly visits, also no guarantee you wouldn't need to take a low dose of Levo, it's a no from me. 😆

[tattybogle in reply to Jaydee1507]

i agree , the price element is a rip off .. by the sounds of it , (from my reading of the info in article and comments, which is not 'thorough' i know ) , but anyway it sound's like it is quite possibly a fairly simple/ cheap bit of kit that is already commercially available and already used for some other areas of 'treatment' .

So assuming you had one that was the correct frequency, then presumably it only costs about 2p in electricity to perform each 'treatment'. The clinician skill required doesn't sound any more technical than 'hold it on the right bit of neck' for 'x' seconds.

So , paying a private clinic £1000 for it, especially on an ongoing basis ... i agree , absolutely "no way, hosee".... but i do think the science/ research is interesting. they got result of about 47% of people no longer taking any thyroid hormone replacement , or similar .. forgotten now. brain like sieve . too much brandy coffee has already been consumed today.

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to tattybogle]

I doubt the equipment is cheap but the whole thing doesn't sound either practical or affordable.

[tattybogle in reply to Jaydee1507]

oh i dunno . i don't think the idea is unfeasable in future..... assuming it actually worked to remove the need for levo in for as many people as this study suggested.

They said 47% stopped all levo and were still ok at 9 months. granted they only looked at 15 people in one . and 47 people in the other one.

I haven't read any more of the studies , so don't know if research after 2017 continued to look so promising , or fell flat ......

but in theory , if half the people you did it on were still ok with no levo nine months later ..and say a machine costs £10,000 now , (sort the price out by getting the NHS to buy lots) stick one in every town ....2 treatments a week for 5 weeks . possibly repeat / top up once every 18 months ,.... in the future we might be able to pop in the GP's and have the practice nurse do it.

[The-Wasp in reply to tattybogle]

I just bought the exact same laser as the clinic for a 849 pounds. Yay 😄bcurelaser.co.uk/product/b-...

[The-Wasp in reply to tattybogle]

Where did you see the laser? I'd totally be game for buying one if it's less expensive than the treatment. I could try it on myself and, if it works (and it's legal 😆) I'd let you all come over for treatments. I do hate the feeling of everyone having their hands in our pockets, but I'm also down for a miracle.

[The-Wasp in reply to tattybogle]

Do you think this it? bcurelaser.ca/?utm_source=g... Maybe I'll take one for the team and just buy one. Then anyone can just come over and try it 😆 I'm kind of joking, but I would if it's not dangerous or illegal. I hate that everyone takes advantage when you have a chronic illness.

[The-Wasp in reply to tattybogle]

You might be bored of this now, but here's a video about the laser treatment: youtube.com/watch?v=VV9Sa3a...(Not working as expected?)

[Mlinde in reply to tattybogle]

Well it is Harley Street and as has been mentioned, there's no guarantee that you won't need to continue with T4/T3 medications and if it's so effective why isn't it available via the NHS?

[tattybogle in reply to Mlinde]

Far to early for NHS to be interested, anything provided by NHS has to have gone through a huge amount of research studies , cost / benefit analysis and long term safety analysis. before it even gets considered by the makers of their guidelines.

Even it it was the best thing since sliced bread .. which it almost certainly isn't.... it would probably take 15/20 yrs before you could get it on the NHS

By the looks of it , there's just a couple of ? promising, but very small studies on it's use on the thyroid ,both done by the same group , and some research on it's use for other things.

[Mlinde in reply to tattybogle]

See the excellent Dr Malcolm Kendrick:

drmalcolmkendrick.org/2022/...

[tattybogle in reply to Mlinde]

For ?... that's a very long article .... yes ,i know NICE and Big drug companies are... 'flawed' in their thinking/ practice most of the time.

[Mlinde in reply to tattybogle]

Long artice? Not really and in any case well worth reading. Flawed? NICE is firmly in the pocket of Big Pharma!

[tattybogle in reply to Mlinde]

yes, of course they are , i have no disagreement with that statement .... just wasn't sure what point you were making in relation to the the subject of Low Levo Laser Therapy and thyroid treatment ?

[The-Wasp in reply to Mlinde]

💯

[The-Wasp in reply to Jaydee1507]

Maybe I'll take one for the team and just buy one. Then anyone can just come over and try it 😆 I'm kind of joking, but I would if it's not dangerous or illegal. I hate that everyone takes advantage when you have a chronic illness. I wonder if this is the laser: bcurelaser.ca/?utm_source=g...

[tattybogle in reply to The-Wasp]

note * i have no real idea what i'm talking about and have had 3 brandy coffee's .

for price guestimate i just looked at those links that Wentz provided to see if any of them had a price on .. they were advertised for sport's/ muscle stuff i think, so they may or may not be the same frequency as was used in those studies .

[arTistapple]

I have no idea whether this would work or not. However I am old enough to have seen umpteen examples of this sort of ‘sales pitch’. Which of all the remedies, systems, protocols have we seen which do actually work? That article recently put up by helvella about the discoveries about thyroid illness in 1898 was very full of information which seemed to refer to the different degrees of ‘thyroid illness’, in fact they were recognised by different names too. After thinking about it a lot (it takes a while for even things I note to be ruminated upon) it seemed to me that there were ‘gradations’ of thyroid illness and not everyone untreated would necessarily fall into myxoedema for example. That makes sense to me. Many of the ‘systems of treatment’ being written about today; I wonder if some (or even many) people suffering are in fact suffering a self limiting or spasmodic thyroid illness. Maybe some are being over treated when they could give up meds. Self healing we know happens but we have no idea how often this happens. This would explain why ‘systems’ work for some and are desperately dangerous for others. My daughter, trying to be helpful has given me another one of those ‘books’. I am pretty open minded but if I was young and had been diagnosed or suspected thyroid illness, I think I would be much more likely to respond positively to following the info. Giving it a go. Indeed I have given many of these ‘systems’ a go; whilst they might not have been prominently highlighted ‘thyroid’. However in my case, I think I have just prolonged my suffering. Thyroid illness definitely should not be left to the narrow minded bullying medics where we are ‘being managed’ at best or at worst, experience outright ridicule and humiliation by them (BTA comment on Facebook previously mentioned in a post). A serious caring, responsive and individualising treatment should be available. Laser or not.

[HighlandMo]

you might want to look in to red light therapy - it is supposed to help the thyroid. There are different “strengths” of light and there have been some studies. You can buy a hand held one for under £100 and use it for pain relief if It doesn’t work for thyroid! I have one but haven’t used it consistently (for pain in feet or thyroid) so can’t say if it works.