Heavy metal testing... blood, hair or urine?

[TiggerMe]

Which is the better route? To identify long term low level rather than sudden high exposure...

(I can't bear the music genre!.... is that relevant 🙃)

[LucyYoga]

Ha! me neither!

I had regenerus blood heavy metal testing but mine was to look for elevated levels and potential toxicity.... so not sure about long term low level

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

🤗 I guess that is what I need? I'm meaning a possible slow build up rather than I've just had a large exposure to them, sorry not very clear

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

Any good?

[LucyYoga]

ahhh.... understood...sorry misread it. Yes.... mine was for same reason. not sudden exposure but wanting to know about cumulative build up over years. Yes v comprehensive... think it tested for about 16 or so metals. the only one that came up for me as elevated was aluminium....

For me as know, its the mould thats the issue!!!

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

Suppose I ought to look into mould too... which test did you do for that?

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to TiggerMe]

I'm not sure why you're wishing to delve into the deepest corners of health unless things are that bad?

The test of the moment is the OATs test. Tells you a lot about your health.

smartnutrition.co.uk/health...

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Jaydee1507]

Funny, I was just looking to see if OATs tests cover heavy metals... it is on my to do list but then this lead issue cropped up 🙄

Just trying to get a better general understanding of where I'm at I suppose 🤷‍♀️ just looking to balance things out as best I can?

Engineering mind... need to know how things work... not really very practical with bodies as they are so much more complex and very little black and white 🙄

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

Welsh water put phosphorus in the mains water here to counteract the lead pipes contaminating drinking water. Spoke to environmental health about it and apparently all at safe levels 😐 this phosphorus is the stuff we are campaigning to get reduced in the river. Local tap water is 4x the river levels 😫🤢

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Regenallotment]

Blimey 😳 water companies really do take the ####( except we are on a septic tank) they really do prioritise profit over health 🤬

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Regenallotment]

Doesn’t even get a mention in our water quality?

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

Are you Severn Trent? If you write/email they’ll send you the local pumping station test results for the latest tests. Quite an eye opener. Not quite the Welsh mountain water we might have thought. Sadly lots added for our ….erm benefit 🤨

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Regenallotment]

Yes, I've been on to them for over an hour today about this #### lead pipe, which they have now decided they need a picture of before proceeding!😡

They did come out and take samples last week to I should get a full report next week from my actual tap! 🤞

They are going to put a label against my name 🤣

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

I did the same in the summer, couldn’t believe how long they ran the kitchen tap for!! I have a river testing kit and was horrified to find mains water was 4x the river and apparently the river is dying etc. but yeah, apparently all normal 🤮

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Regenallotment]

Yeah we all love a 'normal' test result don't we 😱

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Regenallotment]

I know! It made me feel bad and they tell me to run it for 20 mins every morning until its sorted 😩

[LucyYoga in reply to TiggerMe]

regenerus ELISA urine mould panel for mycotoxins in the body.... then regenerus EMMA panel to detect potential mould/ mycotoxins in house 😰.... waiting for the latter results to come back.

Im dreading that one as we moved into our new house 2 years ago- few months before I started to get really ill. Done big renovation job and nowehere was any evidence of mould ..... but I keep reading horror stories of people who literally only got better when they moved out of their houses leaving all their belongings there... dont think I could handle that right now!!

[LucyYoga in reply to LucyYoga]

it did show up that I have really high levels of certain strains particularly ones pertaining to immune dysfunction and linked to autoimmunity. im literally riddled with black mould thats colonised my body

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

Oh blimey.... a little knowledge can be a huge burden 😕

[LucyYoga in reply to TiggerMe]

Exactly.... but at least I now know what's driving some of the inflammation and there is a clear way out to recover

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

How do you clear black mould from your system? Is there an ongoing solution to prevent reinfection?

[LucyYoga in reply to TiggerMe]

I have the full protocol ready to start that my functional nutritionist devised,,,,, i just need to get my thyroid hormones and adrenals strong enough before i start. Im aiming to start sometime in the spring, maybe march.

Essentially its binders that are specificically targeted to the strains i have in my body, plus liver/ gallbladder support, nebulised glutathione and whole host of other specific probiotics strains and supplements. Then the nect thing is to egt them out of the body,,, sweat, pee, poo. Sweating one of the best ways so near infrared sauna 3 or 4 times a week, lymphatic drainage massage, skin brushing and things ive done for a while anyway like breatwork, wim hoff etc. Also hyperbaric chamber sessions, coffee enermas and potentually colonics!!!

Got all that to look forward too but i need to be in a place where i can move from the sofa and walk up the stairs before my body is robust enough for that!!!!

[LucyYoga in reply to LucyYoga]

re reinfection i dont actually think i got it from this house although 'sick building syndrome' is big thing in mould community! Us moving here coincided with me starting swimming again every day. I joined local hotel/spa/gym place and used their steam room every day. Then one day when they closed it to clean it all i looked inside and the walls were covered with black mould!

If we do have mould in the hous ethere are specialist mould remediation companies that can come in and 'fog' the house. Ive found one that is first in UK to use non toxic fogging. So we'll have to wait and see if thats is necessary when we get test results.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

I've never been a fan of the steam room... that unpleasant drip of who knows what from the ceiling... it's like a cross between a nebulizer and a petri dish 🤢sauna wins every time and will help with the damp chi

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

Sounds like (mostly) loads of fun if like you say you have the energy, breaking a sweat puts me in bed for 2 days recovering... I'd say less so the Wim Hoff bit as being deficient the Chinese would class you as damp chi and slippery pulse which really doesn't like cold damp conditions 🤷‍♀️

[LucyYoga in reply to TiggerMe]

yes!!! Thats what my accupuncturist said.....I havent actually done wim hoff since it was hot in the summer... from ayurvedic perspective i'm very Vata so again no to cold damp etc

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

Ah, so you need slow and grounding.... no vinyasa for you! 🧘

[LucyYoga in reply to TiggerMe]

yep… although vinyasa is obviously my favourite! Feel like a long way off right now though— a year ago I was going headstands and handstands every day and now I can barely manage a child’s pose!

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to LucyYoga]

I only took a nose dive when we moved... turns out the previous owners young daughter suffered with hypothyroid issues (found a box of med's on top of the kitchen cupboard)... perhaps I don't want to know that much, I'll deal with the pipework first I think 😩

[LucyYoga in reply to TiggerMe]

yes.... one thing at a time

[radd]

Eeyore100,

I did the Genova Toxic Elements 24 hour Urine Test both before and after having all amalgam removed. The results showed a reduction in certain metals but I'm not sure how useful it was because we can't know for certain if results are indicative of toxic load or what was being healthily excreted at that time as was still going through a chelation program.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to radd]

That's what I'm thinking, there is no real way to test what is lurking within us really

[Lizzab]

Have a look at the Ray Peat Forum.

Search for mold

Search hair and nail testing

Lots of interesting knowledge there

[RedDobe]

Well as someone (ex forces, ex athlete) now too ill to work and lacking in the alternative income stream partner department, that was a depressing not to mention somewhat surreal read…Thyroid Unlocked meets Through The Keyhole/Ladies Who Lunch…

Takeaway message - in the absence of a functioning/accessible health service (let alone thyroid/autoimmune/ME knowledgeable medics), here are all the things you could’ve tried if you’d been a work-shy marriage-wrecking gold digger like your sister, instead of deciding to be independent and earn everything for yourself… (thanks universe, I was defo the one most deserving of this out of the two of us…).

Back to having to just wish/wait for someone to confirm there’s an afterlife to escape to from this no money = no options = no answers = no hope hell…

[tattybogle in reply to RedDobe]

if it helpes , RedDobe you're not alone ... some of us are living on swede , can't spare the £30 to test basic thyroid levels ,struggle to afford the dentist even when we need it, let alone paying them to take stuff out , are sitting indoors under a duvet with russian hats on , and haven't seen inside a steam room since 2010.

Sucks .

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to tattybogle]

My go to is gruel, thankfully dutch elm disease has left the hedges full of firewood to scavenge, filed a tooth down just the other day... last steam room visit 2017 at local leisure centre £5 medicinal rather than luxurious (dodgy whiff of something)

But we cling to hope, humour and the comradery here

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to RedDobe]

Sorry to hear you are having a tough time, health is the great leveller amongst us... we have all found the shared wealth of knowledge on this site helps us educate the health service we have to battle with, or the ability to go our own way.

I'm really grateful that the ones wealthy enough to explore different avenues share their findings with us all.

Sadly we can't all afford the tests but if the solution is cheap and simple, maybe just a small change then it can help all by sharing, most new treatments are found by the desperate wealthy and filter down.

I think I'd be right to say that most of us here aren't living our best life

With an ex-forces past have you approached the benevolent people, they helped out a relative who needed treatment?

[TeaFree]

It has probably got to be hair.

Not least because everything else is measuring toxins on a pass-through basis (that is what's in serum or liquid rather than cells per se) not what you have actually accumulated.

And good luck getting anybody to test and properly interpret e.g. heavy metal or mould signs in blood/urine anyway. Goodness knows we have enough trouble getting Endos to interpret TSH, T4, T3 etc..

Dr Myhill used to make a good fist of using Acumen DNA adducts tests, among other things, which included mycotic metabolites. But then she was primarily concerned with chronic fatigue issues. And also used a mercury challenge test, which is frowned upon by people who take mercury toxicity seriously (like those concerned about autism).

Toxins that have found a home in you will undoubtedly be messing with a whole bunch of functions, to which, to a greater or lesser extent, you will have already adapted. Which it will require some knowledgeable and joined-up interpretation to winkle out.

Herewith a link to someone's old blog post: howirecovered.com/my-toxic-..., which contains an example of, and comments on, the Essential Elements hair test that Andy Culer used as his gold-standard for assessing particularly mercury toxicity, in tandem with his 'counting rules'.

The key point being that, in e.g. testing for mercury, the object is not just to test for that but for a bunch of other things that get thrown out of whack by it. It is not a simple point-and-shoot assay, but provides an insight into a plethora of different essential systems: if, and only if, it is properly interpreted. Because everyone is likely to come back from testing with some sort of 'issue', and the $64,000 question then becomes "Is this causing my problem?".

This is why doctors cultivate a studied lack of curiosity, unless things are on the known critical path. Otherwise, a lot of money can be spent going up entirely the wrong trouser-leg. And that is of course also why there is often no shortage of alternative 'experts' available.

As I have just written somewhere else, it is often better to test than just speculate. However, we have to be aware of the post hoc ergo propter hoc ('after this, therefore because of this') fallacy accompanying testing (among many other problems). Which might lead us to conclude e.g. that the boom in consumer spending in early December caused Christmas!

The point about Cutler is that he was a sufferer from mercury poisoning, and 'cured' himself based on his PhD-level grasp of chemistry. In course of which he saw thousands of hair tests, from which comparisons with healthy controls could be made to hone his (published) interpretation of the data.

If we don't have a higher degree in chemistry, or someone trustworthy, very informed, independent, and practised in this, to do the interpretation, then it might not help at all.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to TeaFree]

Thanks TeaFree,

You have eloquently put into words exactly how I feel about this, I shall file it under 'wrong trouser leg' 😉