I have been advised to take cholesterol medication by nhs endocrinologist. He did genetic testing for familial hyperlipidemia, which was negative but had an anomaly.
I was given Atirvastatin which I haven’t tried as it seems to be one that has worse side effects for patients with thyroid disease. I recently asked fir an alternative preferably small as I struggle taking tablets. When so collected them they are huge capsules (Fenifibrate) which I know I will choke on.
Could anyone advise another medication which may suit.
Thank you.
Last results:-
Serum lipid levels Serum cholesterol level 6.5 mmol/LSerum triglyceride levels 0.85 mmol/L [0.4 - 1.5]Serum HDL cholesterol level 1.5 mmol/LSerum LDL cholesterol level 4.6 mmol/L; NB the calculation of LDL is valid only for afasting sample.Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 4.3Serum non high density lipoprotein cholesterol level 5.0 mmol/L [< 7.5]
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Flecmac
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Interesting what you say about avorastatin, I've also been given it having had a TIA. I was reluctant to take because I have CMT. I wasn't aware that it had other effects for thyroid issues (I had my thyroid killed and am now on levothyroxin).
Have you had your FT3 tested? Cholesterol is usually high because the FT3 is too low. Raise the FT3 and the cholesterol will drop without the need for statins.
Statins are not recommended at all for women or hypos. What's more, they are totally unnecessary because cholesterol does not cause problems, neither heart attacks nor strokes. In fact, those with higher levels are said to live longer! High cholesterol is a symptom, not a disease.
Have a look at some of the other posts about cholesterol, and the replies:
This is why I have left it for few years. Also my NHS endocrinologist started Liothyronine combined with Levothyroxine to increase T3, which it did a little but not enough, also he wanted to test genetics first. My Mum had high cholesterol and high blood pressure, she took medication for both. I am very slim and can’t do much more with my diet so obviously I don’t want to take risks with my health.
When were vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 last tested
What vitamin supplements are you currently taking
ALWAYS test thyroid levels early morning, ideally just before 9am and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test…..day before test split T3 into 2 or 3 smaller doses spread through the day and last dose T3 approx 8-12 hours before test
Is this how you do your tests
Please add most recent results and ranges
Do you have autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto’s, usually diagnosed by high thyroid antibodies
I am taking 62.5 mcg Levothyroxine and 10mcg Liothyronine as split dose.
Recent results:-
B12 830 ng/L (187-883)
Ferritin 134 ug/L (5-204)
Folate 8.4 ug/L (3.1-20)
Vitamin D 73 nmol/L (50-200) I take D spray but not in summer so this has now been rising since.
Cholesterol 6.5 mmol/L (It was 7 in March this year). It was 8.1 in April 2020 which was few months before starting T3.
As well as D and K spray (3000 IU) I take magnesium glycinate and selenium. I used to take B complex but stopped as my B12 has always been very good without.
I always follow the above when having bloods done.
Yes I have Hashimoto’s my antibodies have been 1300 for many years, most of them undiagnosed and untreated.
As far as I can see my FT3 and 4 are at least if not more than 50% in range.
Yes I follow the timings.
Weight is 50kg.
I was taking 75 mcg before starting Lio, not for very long. I was on 25mcg only for many years, GP stopped it, then became Ill, re-started then increased to 50mcg around 2018, then changed to endo in another area with recommendation on here, he increased Levo to 75. He later reduced Levo when started Lio combo.
I have been gluten free for 5 years but have seen no difference.
If the T3 didn't raise your FT3 enough then you weren't taking enough. Why didn't your endo increase your dose?
Was your mum hypo? Both high cholesterol and high blood pressure are hypo symptoms - once again high BP is a symptom, not a disease. Did she ever have her thyroid tested?
You would be taking risks with your health by taking statins! Not by leaving the cholesterol as it is. High cholesterol is not dangerous. Statins are!
And, high cholesterol has nothing to do with diet. It is made in the liver (because the body needs it) and the liver tries to keep levels stable. So, the more you consume, the less it makes. The less you consume the more it makes. However, when T3 is low, the body cannot process cholesterol correctly, and it mounts up in the blood.
I’ve read this before. Not that straight forward I’m afraid! My endo did increase my Liothyronine but T3 went over range. I started low and gradually increased to 15 mcg then at 20 mcg T3 was over range. My Mum was never tested or diagnosed so I don’t know. I have tightness in my chest so it is a concern for me. If I could achieve what you suggest I would do so without statins or fibrates.
Well, the tightness in your chest has nothing to do with your cholesterol level.
By how much was your FT3 over-range? Did you have symptoms of over-medication? Have you had your nutrients tested? Could be that your body wasn't using the T3 you were taking due to low nutrients, and that's why it went over-range.
Do you know about all the side-effects of statins? Especially when you're hypo. Do you know that they will lower your sex hormones? And that will put you at risk of breast cancer. Statins can also cause diabetes. And, low levels of cholesterol are far more dangerous than than high levels. I wouldn't take statins if you paid me.
I know the tightness may not be directly related but I am worried about it. I didn’t have symptoms of over-medication but I’ve read on here before where it has said ‘as long as T3 doesn’t go over range’. After starting Liothyronine T3 went from 5 up to 6.7 (3.5 - 6.5).
I know about side effects if statins and I have read what you have said on here before. That’s why I have not taken any before. It just doesn’t seem like my cholesterol will come down below 5 without them.
Do remember that the levels suggested were reduced to encourage additional prescribing for the biggest earner for Big Pharma. Have you read or watched any of the works of Dr Malcolm Kendrick. At the Thyroid UK conference a few years ago he informed us that there is no such thing as good and bad cholesterol - it is a chemical so cannot be both. Created by the PR folk to capture the imagination of the public - and boy how it worked !
But it doesn't even matter if it comes down below 5! That is just an arbitary number pulled out of a hat by Big Pharma to scare people into taking statins - which are making them several small fortunes! - it doesn't have any scientific backing. What's more, BP keeps moving the goal-posts, so that more and more people are told they need to take statins, and BP make more and more money. It's evil! My friend ended up with prostate cancer because his doctor insisted he take statins and he was too stupid it resist. He regrets it now!
And reducing your dose of T3 just because your FT3 was 0.2 over the top of the range is totally unnecessary. Ranges are another thing that are arbitary and just a rough guide. 0.2 over the top is nothing as long as you feel well. Maybe you should read this article about ranges to get it into perspective:
The normal range: it is not normal and it is not a range
Given that his cholesterol wasn't even over-range - it was just that his doctor told him he ought to take them 'just-in-case' - especially given his age - the statins would have reduced his cholesterol to a dangerously low level.
Low cholesterol means low sex hormones. Low testosterone in men means increased risk of prostate cancer.
Who paid for the research in that article you've linked to? Big Pharma would do anything to protect it's profits from statins.
I understand what you are saying however I know someone who believed the same and would not allow her husband to take them, she even changed his diet. He later had a stroke and could have died, he’s now on statins. I’ve heard of similar. It’s all so confusing and hard to know what to believe any more. Thyroid disease is on the leaflets for statins under precautions and yet manufacturers fail to point this out to GP’s. I really don’t know what to think or do. There’s for and against in just about everything these days.
I am not set in my course of action at all. I have listened to advice one here for a few years and I have chosen so far not to take a statin. Recently because my cholesterol has not come down as a result of taking thyroid medication, which had been increased, I told my GP again that I do not want a statin but would try an alternative, preferably one with the least side effects and very small as I struggle swallowing medication. She gave me Fenofibrate. Which is unsuitable. I simply came on here for more advice as per my post above.
But you increased your dose and then reduced it again. That was hardly going to help, was it. I think you should go back on the 20 mcg T3 and give it time to work. It won't work instantaneously. And, never mind that your FT3 is a tiny bit over-range, that doesn't matter. Lots of people need their FT3 slightly over-range in order to feel well. Personally, I'd far rather have a slightly over-range FT3 than take statins.
You say “I think you should go back on the 20 mcg T3 and give it time to work.” How would you know that doubling my dose would be right for me? Why do I need to take twice the amount when my results are not that bad? I don’t see why, especially at my weight as I said here, 50kg. We are all so very different.
My endocrinologist reduced Levo a little when I started Liothyronine. Not by very much.
Sorry, I thought you were taking 15 mcg and increased it to 20? That's what you said above. "I started low and gradually increased to 15 mcg then at 20 mcg T3 was over range." I haven't seen anywhere you say you're only taking 10.
Having result 'not that bad' is not the same as having optimal results. And, your slightly raised - and it is only slightly raised - cholesterol is saying that your T3 isn't optimal. Dosing by weight is not the right way to do it, because it's not the size of your dose that counts, it's how much you absorb. And in that respect we are all different.
Did you know that hypo used to be diagnosed by using cholesterol levels, before the wretched TSH test was invented?
Optimal is not a number. Optimal is when your symptoms have gone. No-one can tell you what your optimal levels should be, they can only give you a ball-park number and say 'this is where a lot of hypos feel best'. But, as you said yourself, we're all so different, and whilst an FT3 of 75% through the range might be optimal for some people, it doesn't automatically mean it is for you. And, as your cholesterol is still high, it probably isn't.
Having said that, just because your cholesterol is slightly higher than the Big-Pharma fabricated top of the range doesn't mean it's actually any sort of problem. I firmly believe it isn't. I think it's all a load of hyp to make BP more money. Cholesterol is part of the fabric of your body. Your brain is partially made up of cholesterol. Cell walls are made of cholesterol. Sex hormones are made of cholesterol. We need cholesterol. And, as I said before, it's far more dangerous to have cholesterol too low. That will cause heart attacks because cholesterol is necessary to the healing process when arteries are damaged. We need cholesterol for all sorts of reasons.
And, here's the killer... We're always being told about this gooey glop called cholesterol that clogs up our arteries; when the autopsy was done, the arteries were full of cholestero, etc. etc. etc. Well, yes. If the patient had a heart attack they probably were. But the cholesterol was there for a good reason: the artery was already damaged - probably by inflammation - and the cholestrol was the sticking plaster covering the wound. When the wound had healed - if the patient lived that long - the cholesterol would be absorbed into the cell walls. It wouldn't stay around clogging up the arteries.
However, when they do a blood test for cholesterol, it's not this sticking-plaster cholesterol they're measuring. In fact, they aren't measuring the cholesterol at all. They are counting the number of protein carriers - HDL and LDL - that carry the cholesterol around in the blood to wherever it's needed. So, at that point, the cholesterol itself isn't doing anything. It's certainly not clogging up arteries! So, I don't know about you, but that all seems a bit spurious to me. And in no way proof that high levels of cholesterol - or should I say protein carriers - causes heart attacks. Just proof of how low levels of T3 slow down all bodily processes. Including delivery of cholesterol to its final destination. Why would we want to completely upset that finely tuned system by adding in unnecessary drugs when we know how to return the process back to normal? Just optimise the FT3. Or... and I know I'm cynical but... could this possibly be one of the reasons they are so against testing the FT3?
High Homocysteine is implicated in strokes and heart issues. This is raised when Cellular B12 is LOW. When B12 is low in range - so can Folate be low. Wonder how his iron is ? All these things which are very rarely routinely tested - are part of issues kead to strokes and heart probs.
I know it’s so hard to know what is the right thing to do as an individual. I just think in my friends husbands situation they could no longer afford to take the risk any longer and that’s the situation that worries me. Difficult to assess everything without the right medical knowledge and risky following online data too.
Also look at the website of Dr Sarah Myhill. She once mentioned the only benefit of a statin was its anti-inflammatory effect - so might as well take VitD. Do you know the role of cholesterol in the body ? How is your VitD and your friend's husband ? Might be worth checking. Cholesterol is used to cover areas of inflammation in the arteries - like a sticking plaster - to encourage healing. Hence the importance of VitD ....
July bloods:- Vitamin D 73 nmol/L (50-200). I take D spray but not in summer so this has now been rising since. Don’t know about friends husband but friend is very knowledgeable about vitamins, she is the one that told me about this forum, so I know she would have made sure her husbands were optimal.
Yes it is D and K2 spray. Yes I should have started a bit sooner. I am usually at about 120 fairly quickly though. Mind you supplementing D/K hasn’t really helped to lower my cholesterol.
Ferritin is an acute phase reactant and as such, inflammation increases ferritin independent of any true effect on iron stores. Therefore, ferritin is most likely to be spuriously normal in the setting of inflammation. On the other hand, and in contrast to iron deficiency, the inflammatory state is distinguished by normal transferrin saturation. Thus, a low value is indicative of true iron deficiency.
my cholesterol has been that high and my endocrinologist said he wasn’t bothered about it and he no longer even tests it. I hope he’s right! But he does treat a lot of people with thyroid issues so sharing in case helpful.
Oh dear. I can only concur with @greygoose. My cholesterol was running at 9.9 for many years. I now realise this was due to undiagnosed hypothyroidism. Initially, before diagnosis, I did take statins for a short while but had unacceptable side effects. I did a heck of a lot of reading and came to the conclusion that they were very bad for me but most importantly, unnecessary. Medics are very tunnel visioned on this and yet they do know that thyroid treatment on its own does improve cholesterol levels. My cholesterol has dropped to 6.8. No statins. No dietary changes. Unfortunately no exercise due to excruciating myalgia. My thyroid meds are not yet optimally balanced but the cholesterol has considerably dropped.
Yes I have Hashimotos. My T4 and T3 are still too low. Looks like I have conversion issues. It’s all taking longer than I would like. It’s a tough game this. My new doc was droning on about cholesterol but she shut up quick and embarrassed when I said my levels were down over 3 points all on their own and indeed had never been this low probably in about 15years.
when I was diagnosed hypo my cholesterol was 14.85 and the doctors didn’t even mention it. By the time I was optimally treated it was down to 4.6. I know I was optimally treated because I felt good. Jo xx
Interesting. My GP’s don’t know much about either, it’s so difficult going it alone. I suspect that your hypothyroidism may have been more obvious to your GP from your results and symptoms, and that you were treated correctly, therefore your cholesterol came right down? Medical care should not vary as vastly as it does.
I don’t think it was obvious to them at all. Early 40s my tsh was 9 so borderline. Early 50s it was over 100. Go figure. After I was diagnosed they weren’t too bad. Jo xx
Flemac my last LDL test was 6.5. Very pleased with it. There is no such thing as bad cholesterol it is a myth created by the statin industry. LDL is essential for life. A recent paper showed that you where 29% less likely to die of a heart attack if you had high LDL. I have included the link to the paper. A more important matrix is triglyceride/HDL ratio which should be below 2.
Flecmac, Yes LDL was 6.5. Total cholesterol 8.8. Most importantly my Try/HDL was .563. Try/HDL is treated a an indicator of metabolic disfunction/heart disease whilst LDL is not. I would focus on Try/HDL ratio. Reducing your carbs especially sugar. processed carbs and veg/seed oils will reduce your Triglyceride numbers which is key.
Try/HDL ratio looks very good. I wouldn't be worrying too much about your metabolic health and cholesterol. If that was my level I wouldn't be even considering statins. Focus on sorting out your Thyroid levels. Good luck
just wanted to tell you a story about statins involving my mother, she was diagnosed with hypothyroidism through a routine blood test put on T4 and left ( to this day I wish I'd learned more about thyroid conditions relating to how my mother was treated 😠) in the following years she went on to have an heart attack.
then the whole system kicked in ,after being on bay for around 2 weeks she was referd to a cardiologist, given an array of medications including statins, at no point did she see an endocrinologist to see how her thyroid function was, just put on these heart tablets.
skip to 20 years of being on these statins, she developed serious muscle problems in effect her muscles were wasting away eventually she could no longer walk, after around a year of myself and my siblings taking my mum back and forth to her GP she was eventually sent to Newcastle for tests where it was determined she had motor neurones!! And I thought she'd die of a heart attack NOT motor neurones 😔 it's not even in our family history on my mum's side ,heart attacks strokes yes!!.. from diagnosis to death took just over a year, we were gobsmaked as a family.
it was then I started looking ino statins, and after my diagnosis of hyperthyroidism I joined this site and have learned sooooo much about thyroid conditions 💓..a cousin of my mother's was now in hospital I visited her to see how she was, she also had a heart problem and had been on statins for a long time, she died not long after my visit, not of a heart attack, they said it was muscle related probably MS although they couldn't be sure ,her husband was totally lost as he saw her deteriorate before his eyes but statins were never mentioned as a cause 😠 but I reckon there is a link👍 and as one member said it's all about money, after my diagnosis of hyperthyroidism my heart went nuts...it flippin does when your hyper🙄 my GP sent me to a heart specialist he immediately wanted to put me on statins...I told him in no uncertain terms " I'd rather chew my own arm off than take them, and in any case my heart is beating fast because of my hyperthyroid condition" there is nothing wrong with my heart " he then said in quite a smarmy tone " well if you have a heart attack it would be your own fault" even after me refusing the medication he sent a prescription to my GP for me to take it😠 which made me wonder how many GPS /specialists have there fingers in the statin money pie to🤔 🤔🤔🤔
Her doctors (GP, specialists etc) are 100% responsible for her poor health. How would they like it for the positions to be reversed?
Have you considered seeking legal advice?
As soon as a patient says they are having muscle aches on statins, the statins should be STOPPED. Looks like the doctors did not do that. Then, in 99.99% of cases, the aches go away.
However, sadly, in that last 0.01 case the aches do not go away.
Statins are the most evil meds on the planet. A £25 billion industry. So, the £’s are there to make them safe.
Why are the manufacturers not FORCED by the MHRA to reformulate and totally remove the Muscle side effects?
I can tell you also my mothers sister my aunt who will be 87 next Feb was also on statins , when her sister died (my mother she spoke to me about my concerns about how long my mother had been on the statins as she also had muscle pain, she came off them immediately, that was in 2011 the year my mother died, all muscle pain eventually went, but her gp was angry when she told him to discontinue the prescription, he made her an appointment with himself to discuss how reckless it was to discontinue them, she took no notice 👍 the heart specialist I saw told me i was wrong there was no evidence that statins did any harm to patients, yeah whatever!!!. 😠😠😠😠😠
With the usual disclaimer that I nor others on here should seek to "advise another medication"....here's my 2-pennyworth.
A decision like taking a medication (or not) is generally based on influences experienced and, in the main here in the UK, based on what an NHS doctor tells us. But do you think the views of a consultant cardiology expert with >21 years' experience in that field are better than those of a General Practitioner or an endo?
His response focuses on a naturopathic/functional medicine approach (which all should follow imo) rather than outdated/unproven total cholesterol hypotheses. But I believe his interpretation of your cholesterol results may be good with a ratio of triglycerides/HDL comfortably less than 1.
If of interest, I can direct you to a video with the expert's views. It's >1h long including other things e.g. covid vaccines, but I can direct you to parts that focus on cholesterol/statins. However, if you feel that an NHS GP or endo is more qualified than that NHS cardiology consultant (to whom they presumably should refer patients), there's no need to reply.
No problem. Note that my mums total cholesterol is consistently around 7 nowadays (which I suspect is due to menopause) and she's successfully fought off pressure from her nephrologist to take statins in past 1-2y. Her trig/HDL is slightly higher than yours but well below 1.
I mentioned my aunt in an early post, and her taking herself off statins after her sister died (my mother) as she to was suffering with bad muscle pain, which did go after discontinuing the statins, she never really bothers her gp, but during covid she developed some weird symptoms, lethargic, nausea and she'd lost a lot of weight, my cousin got her to the doctors where she had blood tests, it showed she was pre diabetic, but one thing her cholesterol had dropped eventho she hadn't taken statins for years!! She did however change her diet which I think helped, in the end her blood work for diabetes came back within normal limits, it re affered my belife statins don't work.. 👍
my Dr changed me to Atorvastatin 10mg after I said I was concerned about side effects and was told this brand is more tolerated. However after reading the leaflet I’ve decided not to proceed in taking them. But I just wanted to share that this was offered and that there very small capsules which you could open easily if you wished to pour into your tea or mix with a yogurt
Are they solid tablets that you can cut with a pill cutter. Also maybe you can take with milk to make them more soluble. I had to come off atorvastatin and now have simvastatin, ok so far a bit milder.
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