A Few Armour Questions

[JujuMay]

Hi All, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s in May and started on Levothyroxine (75mcg). However, my most recent tests came back showing that my T3 was very low (assume reverse T3 also was, I didn’t actually see the blood results). Doc and I decided I should start Armour, with 2 grains a day as the recommended final dose. I’ve been titrating up since 9th of September and am now on 1/2 a grain morning and afternoon. I guess I really wanted to hear other people’s experience of going onto Armour, how they did it. I’m feeling as bad as I did before I started taking Levo (hypo symptoms)…could that be because I haven’t got enough in my system yet? Or have I titrated up too quickly? If it’s a case of just waiting it out that’s fair enough. Interested to hear how others felt!

[radd]

JujuMay,

Sorry to hear you are still feeling so unwell but symptoms can lag many months behind good thyroid hormone biochemistry so it can be easy to overshoot our sweet spot.

However, 75mcg Levothyroxine is a pretty low dose to be able to achieve adequate FT3 levels, and if you are now taking 1/2 Armour am & pm (totaling 1 grain) then the chances are you remain under-medicated, but are doing the right thing by increasing increments slowly.

You will know if you overshoot T3 levels because will feel hot, flustered & heart rate may increase. You may also get a tremor and/or diarrhoea. However, it is usual to get an inner warmth and/or headache when we introduce T3 and dose should be held until these subside. I found Armour T3 potent and ended up having to add some Levo to bring FT4 levels up.

Essential cofactors required to make Levothroxine work effectively are required for NDT too. Are you addressing your previous Vit D deficiency? Have you taken steps to reduce thyroid antibody levels?

[JujuMay in reply to radd]

Thanks for your reply, lots of very helpful points. With regards to the Vit D, I did take a loading dose which I started back in May, then onto a daily dose of 1000(mcg?). I’ve also completely changed my diet and am following the AIP diet to try and help with antibodies/inflammation. Another spanner in the works is that I was diagnosed with IBS-D (by GP, not private thyroid doc) at around the same time as the Hashimoto’s diagnosis (had been having issues for months previously), so I think my absorption of any meds/supplements is pretty poor. I suspect it may be inflammatory bowel disease rather than IBS because of high inflammation in the original test, but my GP is refusing to take on any info from private tests so have got nowhere with that! He’s dismissing the inflammation as stress. I have to say I’m feeling dire on the NDT, really weak and exhausted, but the difficulty is trying to work out what’s actually making me feel so bad as there are a lot of factors at play!

[radd in reply to JujuMay]

JujuMay,

If diarrhoea has been since you started Armour it may be the T3 content is too much for you. You can't know for certain you need additional T3 meds if presumably 75mcg Levothyroxine wasn't an optimal dose. You could do TFT’s including FT3 to assess exactly where thyroid hormones lie.

However, if gut issues have been ongoing IBS is incredibly common with hypothyroidism and often improves with optimised thyroid hormones and measures taken to quell inflammation. Rather than pushing for further possibly invasive testing at this stage, I would wait until you have been optimally medicated for several months. 

Great you are on an anti-inflammatory diet. I have always found supplementing Curcumin effective in helping to manage my Hashi inflammation. I also took a combo of glutamine, marshmellow root and slippery elm when my gut was inflamed.  

[pennyannie]

Hello JuJuMay :

I take NDT and seem ok on 1 + 1/2 grains but I have Graves Disease and had RAI thyroid ablation back in 2005 so likely I now have no thyroid function of my own to interfere with my dosing schedule.

No thyroid hormone replacement works well until your vitamins and minerals are up and maintained at optimal and notice your vitamin D needs supporting and conversion of any thyroid hormone replacement will also be impaired by inflammation and antibodies which I see were very high in your last posted blood test result.

Both Hashimoto's and a goitre are likely to case additional issues as your own thyroid hormone output is likely swinging around and erratic and causing you all sorts of symptoms.

I switched from 125mcg T4 one day to 1/2 grain NDT the following day and I built up my dose in weekly 1/4 grain increments monitoring on blood pressure, pulse and temperature.

All remained constant though I watched my temperature slowly rise from 35.4 to 36.6 where it sits today some 5 years on from my experiment.

With NDT you dose to relief of symptoms and not a blood test and you may need more or less than 2 grains - as you go by how you feel and hopefully monitor on symptoms being reduced.

If you get to 2 grains you stay on 2 grains for 6-8 weeks and then run a blood test to compare to your bench readings - your TSH will likely be low suppressed, your T4 likely lower than when on T4 monotherapy BUT your T3 should be proportionately higher with you experiencing some, if not all of symptoms experienced.

If nothing much has happened NDT may not be the best option for you at this point in time.

If you feel improved but not fully, you simply repeat the process and build up in 1/4 grain increments.

There comes a week when you don't feel as well as one prior - drop back down that last 1/4 grain - sty o the lower dose for 6-8 weeks letting it bed in and then if you like run a blood test, just to see what's happened as this is your dose of NDT at that point in time.

Some people split their dose - I don't and take mine at around 3.00am so with nothing in my stomach and a good few hours before I wake up again and following the circadian rhythm of the body.

[JujuMay in reply to pennyannie]

Thanks for your reply, really appreciate it. I did get a racing pulse last night for the first time since I’ve been taking Armour, 100bpm lying in bed, but it was about 10 hours after my last dose so I wondered if that could be what was doing it. Very unusual for my pulse to be that high on rest. Maybe I need to drop the dose back by 1/4 of a grain and leave it a few weeks before I change the dose again. Can’t believe how dreadful I feel!

[pennyannie in reply to JujuMay]

Since with Hashimoto's auto immune disease you may well experience swings in symptoms and this ' racing pulse ' and with your immune system systematically attacking your thyroid it will feel like you are on a seesaw of hypo and/or hyper symptoms.

While inflammation and antibodies are raging your body is under considerable stress and maybe a beta blocker in the short term could be prescribed to alleviate some of these scary symptoms.

I also saw you mention stomach issues which again will compound optimal absorption of any thyroid hormone replacement - there is a liquid T4 - and just wondered if you had been offered this option before you switched to taking Armour ?

I have read that some people with Hashimoto's can't tolerated Natural Desiccated Thyroid and need to take synthetic T3/T4 medications.

[Jaydee1507 Administrator]

1 grain total is unlikely to see you over medicated although I'm not sure you ever got optimal with Levo?

Your vitamin results from 6 months ago show your folate low in range. It was 6 and needs to be around 20 to feel well. This may cause you issues with tolerating anything containing T3.

What supplements have you been taking?

[Chett]

Hi JujuMay,

I switched to Armour from another HRT. I started the Armour on the same dose. I will say that it took quite a while before my body got used to it, but now I feel pretty normal. Good luck.

[lauraleeds666]

Ive been on Armour since 9th Sept too. Except I titrated up a lot quicker than you! It was prescribed by a private GP who has a specific interest in hashis. She told me to start off with half a grain twice a day and then increase it every couple of days - depending on symptoms - until I got to two grains. For the first week or so, I felt absolutely amazing. Now I am more back to normal 😂 However I have noticed that I am much more alert and brain fog nearly wiped out conpared to being on levo. I dont need to sleep on an afternoon anymore 💪