I quit caffeinated coffee when I started on Levo a year ago but recently read some stuff a friend sent me that says your thyroid needs caffeinated coffee to help with the tiredness? I'm not convinced because it's from an American with no medical qualifications and I gather has sub clinical hypothyroidism, also doesn't say whether he's on any meds. Who's right?
Also I started taking Marine collagen around 9 months ago. For financial reasons I changed to Bovine collagen which I dissolve in my decaff coffee each morning. This change was about the same time my Levo brand changed to Almus/Accord, 6 weeks ago. Since then all my symptoms have returned with a vengeance. I'm sending off a blood test to Blue Horizon tomorrow morning but would be interested to know if anyone else has experienced any side effects of taking collagen.
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Popeye44
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I am taking 50mcg. I get a prescription for 56 days and since I started on Levo I've had Wockhart, MercuryPharma and Teva all of which I have been ok on after an initial downturn of about 5 days. I felt best on MercuryPharma. Teva was the last one. I'm looking to change pharmacy because this one tells me they just dispense what they get from the supplier. My last test result from the GP was only TSH. It was 0.50 (0.40 - 4.50) and that was at the end of June.
Absolutely no chance of the GP doing any other tests hence my Blue Horizon Test will be done at 8am tomorrow morning and off in the post so I know where I stand. She's astounded that I can afford to pay for testing myself and amazed that I have read up on my condition. I did a Medichecks test after the last GP one (6th July 2022) because it was after a change of dose and I was so fuming that they only did TSH. The results were:
TSH 0.36 (0.27-4.2)
FT4 15.1 (12 - 22)
FT3 4 (3.1 -6.8)
If I had taken this one to the GP she would have said my TSH was too low because it was "abnormal" using their lab parameters, and she would have reduced my dose.
If there was a better GP I would change, but there isn't around this area.
Suggest you pay extra for 24 hour guaranteed delivery….post is right up the creek at moment
Many, many people on levothyroxine end up with below range TSH when on adequate replacement dose …..you may need to go over GP’s head to endocrinologist if TSH remains too low
FT4: 15.1 pmol/l (Range 12 - 22)
Ft4 only 31.00% through range
FT3: 4 pmol/l (Range 3.1 - 6.8)
Ft3 only 24.32% through range
These results show you were under medicated and in need of dose increase
If marine collagen contains iodine (likely?) this could be causing issues
Obviously you need to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
In the majority of patients 50-100 μg thyroxine can be used as the starting dose. Alterations in dose are achieved by using 25-50 μg increments and adequacy of the new dose can be confirmed by repeat measurement of TSH after 2-3 months.
The majority of patients will be clinically euthyroid with a ‘normal’ TSH and having thyroxine replacement in the range 75-150 μg/day (1.6ug/Kg on average).
The recommended approach is to titrate thyroxine therapy against the TSH concentration whilst assessing clinical well-being. The target is a serum TSH within the reference range.
……The primary target of thyroxine replacement therapy is to make the patient feel well and to achieve a serum TSH that is within the reference range. The corresponding FT4 will be within or slightly above its reference range.
The minimum period to achieve stable concentrations after a change in dose of thyroxine is two months and thyroid function tests should not normally be requested before this period has elapsed.
Come back with new post once you get results
If Ft4 isn’t towards top of range, you need dose increase in levothyroxine
Most important results are ALWAYS Ft3, followed by Ft4. Ft3 at least 50-60% through range
The same could probably be said for humans (with few exceptions). And my daughter, a veterinarian, tells me that she sees more and more thyroid issues in pets. I assume it is an environmental problem. Of course, we most likely don't know whether the deer, hedgehogs and wolves are also starting to have thyroid problems (don't know whether there is research on that, seen that even thyroid research on human thyroid is slow as molasses).
Hi thereI take collagen about 2h away from NDT (I didn’t get on with Levo, it worked, then it didn’t and I am now on NDT, after T3 didnt’ work either).
Collagen doesn’t cause me any effects, but I do drink coffee with caffeine.
As SlowDragon says, looks like you are under medicated and could do with an increase.
And as Jimh111 says you could have central or secondary hypothyroidism, which means your TSH is normal or suppressed, with T4 and T3 readings low.
GPs do not understand that at all and only go by TSH. It took me 4 years, countless misdiagnosis and paying for a private Endo to get a diagnosis. At least you are already on Levo 😊
Your GP sounds not very enlightened, so you may want to go private?
Check if there are any additives in your collagen powder, it could be these - at least partly - that’s upsetting you. Here’s a good article that breaks down exactly what to look for:
This type of information appals me. I can’t see how any hypothyroid patient could possibly benefit from any stimulant, except perhaps in a total emergency situation. The energy ‘supplied’ by caffeine is totally false. It depletes the stores. It does not conjure it up. Hypothyroidism as a condition is when your stores have already run dry. Good quality treatment and balance of hormones are what is required. Anyway if this type of advice is good - try it and see what happens. Sorry I can’t remember the actual quote but apparently there are x number of known toxins in coffee and caffeine is only one of them. It does happen to taste lovely especially in chocolate, unfortunately. Don’t know anything about collagen.
Hi Popeye44I have been taking collagen every morning in hot water and lemon, I would not recommend adding it to coffee, even decaf.I have undertaken a lot of research on collagen for work, and it does help resolve many issues, however I would recommend taking the collagen on an empty stomach, 1 hour after taking levothyroxine.
Hi I have powdered beef collagen in my smoothies for breakfast, from what I’ve read it’s a good way to boost protein intake without taking a whey hemp or pea protein source which can all aggravate IBS symptoms. Also make bone broths, slow cooker oxtail or chicken thighs/legs. This in combination with gradual increases in Levo and improving D, B12, Ferritin and folate all seem to be helping. I’ve been decaff for 20 years, makes me jittery, sweaty, anxious, grumbly tummy. That was me before I got pregnant and the symptoms went away 🙈 hope you can get your doctor to see sense, I see (well speak to) a different one every time at our practice and I send them the info that SlowDragon linked on NICE and GPOnline guidelines. Seems to help. Hope you are able to sort it 🦋💚🦋
I have been decaff for a long time because I had problems with a fast heart rate so cut caffeine completely. It's the same with my GP practice but if I pick a day when she is duty Dr. I can usually have a reasonable conversation with this one.
Caffeine is caffeine and it will give anyone a boost. I learned when first seriously investigating my issue back in 2017 that all levo is made by 2 manufactures in China no matter the brand name and I am guessing it is likely true for all medication. China and India are the hubs of medication manufacturing although the Drug Companies have head quarters in other world capitols!
I’ve read the thread about manufacturing and would just add one point. Drug manufacture is in two stages, the primary production of the active ingredient and the secondary production of the final product or tablet. The information provided is correct and for levothyroxine this does not take place in China. There are numerous reasons why the industry does not want this to happen generally for drugs.However the primary production requires raw ingredients to make the active ingredient. This is not just a mixing but a series of chemical reactions. Many raw ingredients for many many drugs are made in China and no where else.
Its a big problem for the industry who would much prefer sources from multiple countries to secure their supply chains. It’s also true for a lot of chemicals used in other industries but the western world will not pay higher prices or accept the pollution that occurs in China.
The sources of the raw ingredients are not listed publicly as they do not occur in the final product.
I thought I had made it clear that we do not have much information about Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient manufacturing? Though there are a couple of UK manufacturing licences for Levothyroxine sodium API.
But if you look to China, inasmuch as anyone can interpret the easy-to-find information, there are several manufacturers of Levothyroxine sodium API. And I think India is doing its best to avoid reliance on China. So claiming just two seems a step too far and really needs support not just a vague thing from memory.
And when it comes to excipients, we are really lost except when they are themselves branded products (Opadry White springs to mind). We might know that a certain quantity of microcrystalline cellulose or magnesium stearate is produced in a country but we would need far more detail to see whether that is what ends up in the tablet in our hands.
What you have made abundantly clear is that nobody on this forum should offer any information or opinion and that only admins have facts. I’ll crawl back into my hole
Ew, I would like to see that study. I am American and have no medical training (but love & understand a good bit medical research) + I don't do caffeine - not good reaction. I have full-blown hashimotos for the last 30yrs. I am on NDT and years ago was on, only, levo until I learned about FreeT3 in NDT. My lab #s are good and more importantly, I feel good. So I would not ascribe to hypothesis/theory that caffeine is needed w/thyroid meds.
Hi, about the collagen; I find that bovine collagen is hard to digest ( in my case) marine might be better, but I still don’t trust using collagen 100%, as for coffee, I find coffee helpful, as long as I don’t over do it, helps with my fatigue and constipation, always after eating food, never on an empty stomach. In my opinion, collagen and decaf coffee are both products that go thru chemical processes, I choose the more natural ways, easier for the body to assimilate and without extra chemicals,,like bone broth or just broth made with bones and other parts of the animal which are collagen rich, and organic medium roast coffee that has not been chemically processed. Worth a try.
I agree that the bovine collagen might be more difficult to digest. I'm probably going to switch back to marine because I have started to suffer from heartburn. Provided coffee is decaffeinated using water I think that's ok for me. I'm not risking SVT again! Also the caffeine affects the bladder making it more sensitive so a better option for my husband (and the dog who likes his daily cup too).
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