Hello everyone,
I'm trying thyroid s for the first time and unsure how to switch/add or change dose.
I'm currently taking
25mcg of t3 at 5am
2.5ml LDN a9m
50mg of thyrovanz at 12pm
50mg thyrovanz at 6pm
I only received it this morning so already taken my t3.
If anyone can kindly guide me please, I will be so grateful.
Hello Maya :
Looking back I see in 2018 you were taking 50mcg or 75mcg T4 with 6.25,cg T3 :
Did you feel better than then and has the LDN helped in any way and do you plan to continue with Low Dose Naltrexone ? ?
You now take 25mcg T3 plus Thyrovanz :
The issue is we have no way of knowing the actual content of T3 or T4 in Thyrovanz :
How are your levels of ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D as these need to be maintained at optimal levels for any thyroid hormone replacement to work well ?
Are you with a thyroid AI disease ?
I read the average person needs around 50 T3 daily function :
1 grain Thyroid S contains 9mcg T3 + 38mcg T4 :
Do you have any current blood tests results and ranges to share with forum members ?
I do not know how long Thyrovanz takes to fully leave the body but the T3 should be fully gone in around 4/5 days so I think you could start on 1 grain - taken first thing in the morning as when you currently take your T3 and just stay on this dose for a few weeks :
Monitor your blood pressure, pulse and temperature twice a daily together with symptoms, and plot these levels and see if a pattern evolves :
Some people split the NDT - others don't :
Slowly increase in 1/4 grains every week and if you get to 2 grains - take a blood tests then as we should then compare this to your bench mark numbers taken before you started this experiment.
Your TSH will likely be suppressed/low - your T4 likely low, but your T3 should be proportionately higher - if well and symptoms are reducing but not resolved slowly starting nudging up y 1/4 grain increments.
There will come a week when you have gone too far and feel edgey and uncomfortable in your skin, so just drop back to the previous weeks dose and stay there letting this dose bed in for around 6-8 weeks and then take a blood test to see where your levels then sit.
I found my blood pressure and pulse remained constant but that my temperature rose from 35.4 to 36.6 where it tends to hover most days now, over 4 years later and still on the same dose.
I'm with Graves Disease post RAI thyroid ablation back in 2005 and managing lingering Graves, thyroid eye disease - caused by the RAI - and hypothyroidism.
Thank you for your reply Penny.
I no longer take t4. I stopped end of 2018. Ever since then I've been on t3 then added thyrovanz along the way.
I felt better but still not well.
I'm on LDN because my adrenals levels were non existence, so that has helped alot.
My Ferritin, b12 (self inject) vit d are optimal. Tested recently.
I was still writing when you posted this, as I needed to lookback a bit at your history - read through again as I don't think you read the completed version.
Cool, I just read again, thank you
I'm pre menopausal.
I do have hashimotos.
I stil have my thyroid
Last test was 25/2/22
Ferritin 367 (13-150)
Serum iron 21 (9-30)
TIBC 53 (50-83)
Folate 19 (3.8-999)
Vit d 110
B12 2000 (197-779)
Tsh 0.01 (0.27-4.2)
T4 6.5 (10-24.5)
Thyroid peroxidase 15 (0-33
T3 6. (3.1-6.8)(This was done in the hospital at 12pm so not sure of accurate result)
So I should just start tomorrow, take 1 grain at 5am instead of t3?
Your ferritin is very high- was this looked into - queried - ?
Do you have an inflammation result there as this can be a cause of high ferritin ?
B12 over range - though think I read you have injections so is this reason for this high level and therefore considered acceptable ?
TSH will be low as taking any form of T3 lowers the TSH :
So the T3 figure was around 8+hours from ingesting ?
T4 very low - and meant to be a storage hormone - just wonder what is in Thyrovanz ?
Well, it's worth a try - list current symptoms, temperature, blood pressure and pulse and monitor as you go :
Yes I have inflammation. Alot of boils especially around my chest area and on my scalp. I'm not on any form of iron tablets so the results are definitely from inflammation.
Thyrovanz took away the daily headaches i suffer from. Its not as debilitating as it used to be so something in it was working I guess.
Actually that day I didn't take my t3 at 5am as I was getting a SST done, so my last dose of meds was Thyrovanz at 6pm.
Golly so a T3 of over 6 some 30+ hours later ??
OK - so we discount the ferritin as inflammation and B12 as you inject -
Did you get any sense from the SST - I had one and then read that it's not sensitive enough unless adrenal fatigue is as that of Addison's Disease.
Do you have any ideas what it means? I didn't feel too ill not taking the t3 that day.
I have any appointment with endo next week. Doubt she'll actually take any action. Il try and attach the results. X
It's too faint for me to read - sorry :
No free t3?
Hi Imaan,
I did add ft3 too, it was 6 (3.1-6.8)
X
It stated t3 so I thought it was the t3 test and not free t3. Thnxs for the clarification. Hope your health improves with this addition. If I was in your shoes I'd add 12.5 of t4 ti help with your low level
I can't tolerate synthetic t4 hun. I had to give up years ago. T4 is suppressed because I'm only on t3.
I really do hope it improves. I feel like this was my last option, was very reluctant as you know with porcine.
😔
Ndt doesn't suppress t4, it suppresses TSH from my understanding. There isnt much t4 in ndt in general although bovine has a little more than porcine.
I completely understand your reasons for being reluctant and I can relate.
Hi Penny,
As 1 grain contains 9mcg of t3, I'm thinking will that me enough for me to go on for a whole day where as I was taking 25mcg?
It's nearly 12pm and I already feel a bit spaced out, like I need a top up.
X
I think this a bit of a difficult swop as most people switch from T4 only and go onto NDT and then if not sorted, switch to T3 only.
You also need to factor in the T4 content of the NDT converting to T3 within your body.
Did you convert T4 and stopped because of the fillers in the tablets ?
If T4 never worked for you, why are you considering NDT ?
NDT does take time to settle and bed in, and the conversion of T4 is dependant on several factors within one's own body :
Thinking on ??
I think it was most probably the fillers in t4. I was kinda scraping along before until it didn't work for me at all.
T3 only isn't working for me either. I still feel ill most days. My head feels like it's being squeezed making me tired and sleepy.
I tried to raise the t3 and suffered with palpitations, being very jumpy and bad mood swings.
X
Well, I was surprised to read that your T3 was over 6 after 30 hours as mentioned somewhere above yesterday, I think :
I understand that people on T3 can read their symptoms and know when they need a ' top up " -
NDT is a slow build and it takes time to bed in and seems the total opposite of T3 regarding when and how to dose.
Monitor on your pulse, blood pressure and temperature - see if that helps seeing these numbers improve :
My experience of T3 was a bit like main lining - not that I'd know - NDT is much more subtle and a much smoother ride - if that makes sense.
So, there are several conversion charts suggesting how much everything is worth - but nothing can allow for how your body appropriates and utilises / converts the T4 :
It is said that 1 grain NDT is around 100 T4 - if all things are equal - which we know is probably not correct - and just a ballpark.
It is said that T3 is around 3/4 times more powerful than T4 :
So, if 1 grain NDT is 9mcg T3 + 38mcg T4 - and we say T3 is 3 times more potent than
T4 - 1 grain then equals 65mcg T4 : ( 3x9 + 38 ) :
So if T3 is 3 times more potent than T4 your dose of 25mcg T3 = 75mcg T4 :
Did you take your T3 in one go - if so, suggest you take the NDT in 1 go :
Thinking on and out loud -
I think you should start with 1 grain and try taking your NDT all at once :
NDT is bound to thyroglobulin and takes much longer to be digested and circulate around the body and sometimes referred to as slow release and 1 dose can take you round a 24 hour clock:
T3 is initially much more powerful but not as long lasting in it's effectiveness and falls away after around a 12 hour period.
Your currently ' primed ' to read your body as you would do for dosing with T3.
Good morning - I hope you feel a bit better than yesterday :
Have you stopped the 2 doses of Thyrovanz now ?
The issue we have is that we do not know the measured dose content of Thyrovanz so have no idea how or what might be an appropriate replacement
I think you may find this week, if adjusting just to the 1 grain NDT you might have a bumpy landing - I hope not - but just concerned as to the Thyrovanz leaving your body as well as the T3 :
Good morning Penny,
So nice of you to check up on me, thank you 😊
Yes, Ive stopped all except LDN.
I took 1 grain at 5am
LDN at 9am.
I felt werid until 3pm, tired (like I needed a top up) but after that I felt fine. I took it easy, Spending rest of the day in the park relaxing.
X
OK then -
Enjoy and stay out of the sun - if you have any - or rhumba in the rain - if that's the other option - good, just concerned, don't overdo anything until we find a dose that carries you well through 24 hours 7 days a week.
Hi PennyAnnie,
Youve been very helpful thank you very much.
So currently im on 1.5 grains of NDT since 21st of August and i can say i feel awful 😖.
First 3 / 4 days i feel okish then raised to 1.5 first two was again okish but now i feel terrible especially the headaches. Alot of head pressure, dry eyes and so tired.
My temp is 36.7
Bp 117/73
P. 68
Im still on 2.5 ml LDN
Any ideas what i should do?
Xx
I'm thinking maybe you need to split the NDT into 2 doses a day - around 12 hours apart.
1 grain AM and build up a PM dose to 1 grain - would this make sense - I think you used to split the T3 dose didn't you :
Have you run a blood test to see if anything is different :
Your temperature is on point :
How is this blood pressure for you - considered ok ?
Try and build up to 2 grains and then stay on that dose for 6-8 weeks and then run a blood test.
Are you aware of any benefits of taking the LDN ?
Still thinking .
i went up to 2 grains a day 5am &4pm. Was on it for two day
Temp was 37.1. Felt awful. Again worst headaches, felt a little palpitations so went back to 1.5 grains.
Bp is normal reading for me.
LDN- took away the afternoon naps.
Haven't had bloods done yet.
So you are on 1 grain AM and 1 grain PM - and temperature it raised - so likely this is a little too much medication - adjustments should be by 1/4 grains - up or down - so stay on 1+ 3/4 grains for 6-8 weeks and then run blood test .
Do you feel better for splitting the dose ?
I didn't know LDN took away afternoon naps - I thought it was more about reducing pain, inflammation and autoimmunity.
Are you gluten free and have you been checked for celiac disease ?
As you have Hashimoto's I wonder if you are also suffering with absorption issues and read of many with this AI disease having to heal their gut before finding their optimum dose of thyroid hormone replacement.
thyroidpharmacist.com will help with your understanding pf Hashimoto's AI disease - as my knowledge is limited as I'm with Graves post RAI thyroid ablation.
Im on 1 grain 5am and half at 4pm.
Fiinding it so hard to cut the little pills. They crumble when cutting in quaters??
I didn't feel any difference at all. Not better.
Im taking LDN for chonic fatigue mainly also helped with inflammation.
Celiac- negative.
X
So in this past month you have stopped 25 mcg T3 and 2x Thyrovanz on which you were not well and switched to NDT with a dose that was 1 grain - worked up to 2 grains and now back down on 1 + 1/2 grains and with no relief of symptoms,
Considering the average person is said to need around 50 T3 daily just to function I tend to think you were undermedicated on the T3 / Thyrovanz and presumable still are on the NDT.
The other issue with Hashimoto's is that you are liable to erratic own thyroid hormone production and people experience swings in their symptoms to hyper and then back down to hypo as the thyroid is attacked and disabled by this auto immune disease so maybe it's not an even playing field while your own thyroid levels are somewhat volatile.
Thinking on.
Looking back it seems this situation happens irrespective of what you are taking in the way of thyroid hormone replacement :
Did you go for the follow up tests as mentioned in a separate post from you around 24 days ago which didn't receive any answers - was this for cortisol, and adrenal function, can't look back and quote you now, as I 'll loose this question ?
Ok - so have you had this appointment now for ADR, COR and ACTH and what if anything has been said or done ?
Maya, I was looking at your bloodwork last night and noticed your folate is in the lower end of the range. How does your mcv and mchc test look?
Also, you might benefit from taking 2 doses of your thyroid med instead of just once a day. Just a thought
I followed this guide but I was on Levothyroxine only and I reduced Levo by 25mcg as I added 1/4 grain thyroid S. not sure how this would fit with taking t3 though except going very slowly in small increments
tpauk.com/main/article/trea...
How long till you left well/better?
I know its early days for me but I'm feeling so anxious 😟
Improvements were dramatic and very fast ie I felt hugely better within a day of my first dose of NDT. I had felt like a shadow no longer a complete person just a thing. I can only liken it to a jigsaw puzzle with a piece missing that the NDT suddenly put back in place and I felt whole again. I no longer felt two dimensional in a dreary miserable life not worth living. The colour came back and the misery lifted. It was not like completely back to normal in 24hrs, but the very worst things improved noticeably. I’d say within a month I felt like a new person and after two better than I did long before that as I probably had symptoms of thyroid disorder for decades. The depression that had plagued me all my adult life simple evaporated so that is a lot better than I ever could have expected. I assume all this was because of inadequate free t3 that the NDT restored to good levels. I think it varies greatly with how soon you see improvements. I am superfast reactor to medications according to 23&me which would fit with my experience with NDT and other medicine….bar Levothyroxine which never made me feel better and after two years on the stuff, left me fat, brain dead and suicidal.
I hope the NDT is as successful for you as it has been for me - it’s been a lifesaver.
☘️🍀☘️
Wow, so happy reading this (bought tears to my eyes) so glad it's worked for you.
I still have all those feelings you described. Just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel in any situation. My family think I over react to everything.
I have a feeling of being doomed.
T3 has helped but seems like it hasn't helped enough if I still feel like this kind of life is not worth living.
Are you only on NDT? How much are you taking?
X
They can’t know what it’s like with this thyroid milarky only we do, so I sympathise with you. You probably need a better balance of T3 which should remove all those horrible symptoms like the doom feeling and life being almost unbearable. I just take NDT. I was on 1.25 grains for about 5 years and suddenly I needed to take more no idea why. I now take 2 grains but sometimes drop it to 1.75 if I feel a bit over the top. My ThyoidS is out if date now so may not be as strong as it ought to be, but it’s not bad! I managed to run 5 miles today to soak up the last of the heatwave - slow but steady 😊 so it’s definitely doing a reasonable job of powering me on as I have no thyroid function. It frazzled up to a crisp.
I hope you find improvements coming in due course. I was lucky that mine were so dramatic but not everyone experiences it like that and it’s far more gradual. Fingers crossed for you 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽
I ought to add that I needed to spilt my NDT dose initially or I felt weird but after a year or so I tried one dose a day of NDT and it was fine
switching to armour thyroid
Switching Thyroid meds. 
Raw thyroid and thyroid - s
A source for Thyroid S in UK
Naturethyroid or Thyroid-S
