Personalised Vitamin Plans (radio)

[helvella]

Just a quick alert to the devious vitamin sales people!

I'm sure many here are all too well aware of schemes like these.

However, the end result seems to suggest just taking a multivitamin. And we know that there is a strong (and evidenced) view that multivitamins are not ideal. Issues like combinations which affect each other. Inadequate doses of some vitamins for those who are actually deficient. Iodine in what might be an excess for many.

Vitamin plans can never be an answer to a poor diet.

Personalised Vitamin Plans

Sliced Bread

The vitamins market is growing fast, with many companies now offering bespoke vitamin plans that claim to produce the perfect personalised prescription just for you.

Our listener Gareth wants to know if this could be a quick fix for his low energy and poor diet so Greg is going to find out. He’s got his sights on the popular companies suggesting personalised plans based on a simple online questionnaire that builds up a picture of your vitamin deficiencies via questions about your exercise, stress levels, diet and more.

But these personalise plans comes at a premium - some go for close to £25 per month. Greg tests the questionnaires, speaks with nutritional experts, and sees whether Gareth thinks personalised vitamin plans are the best thing since sliced bread, or marketing BS.

This season we’re testing YOUR suggested wonder-products. If you’ve seen an advert, trend or fad and want to know what the evidence says drop us an email to [e-mail] or drop Greg a message direct on his social media where he’s @gregfoot

Might not be available anywhere outside the UK.

bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00174dg

[helvella]

Well, I felt the "just take a multivitamin" was potentially poor to dangerous advice for many in this forum - and those over on Pernicious Anaemia Society.

I have emailed Greg - the presenter. He'll probably wish he'd never made the program.

(I was polite and friendly but question the basis of the general advice.)

[Titaniumfox]

Where did you buy it from? Vitamin B12 won't do you much good if your B2 levels are deficient as it requires the activity of FAD (an important enzyme cofactor which has riboflavin as part of its structure) to work. If people are seeing no results then it may be because they have deficiencies in the precursors that allow B12 to work.

[helvella in reply to Titaniumfox]

Can you tell what you mean by FAD? And what it does which makes it separately important? And how we can know our FAD activity levels?

[Titaniumfox in reply to helvella]

FAD = Flavin Adenine Dinucleotide (sorry long biochemical name!). It's a coenzyme that's involved in catalysing hundreds of enzyme reactions in our body. It's involved in the exchange of electrons to be precise, and you'll find it for example in some steps in the Kreb's (tricarboxylic acid) cycle - e.g. succinate --> fumarate requires NAD.

The flavin part of FAD is where riboflavin comes in i.e. vitamin B2. This is why it's such an essential and I feel rather overlooked vitamin! I don't know if FAD levels can be directly measured, but you can get some information via an Organic Acids Test (OAT) which measures some of the intermediates of metabolism (inc the Krebs Cycle) in urine. That will show if you have an accumulation of a molecule in the pathway, indicating a shortage of the enzyme or cofactor necessary for that molecule's conversion. For example, if you were short of B2, then your succinate dehydrogenase may not function adequately so you will accumulate succinate in your urine.

Check out the wiki entry for flavin adenine dinucleotide. It is a complex subject, but I think this line sums it up: "FAD plays a major role as an enzyme cofactor along with flavin mononucleotide, another molecule originating from riboflavin."

[helvella]

If it is a medicine - then the standard Yellow Card route.

You can check if it is listed here:

products.mhra.gov.uk/search...

(The search facility is pretty poor - I just put "cyanocobalamin" as an example. Try the active ingredient, the brand name, etc. With and without quotes might help in reducing the irrelevant results.)

If it is a food, as many supplements are, then the Food Standards Agency:

assets.publishing.service.g...

Obviously, also contact the vendor or marketplace (if possible).

[Titaniumfox]

Multi vitamins/minerals can also be poorly made so that they don't break up properly in one's stomach, that in addition to being in tiny amounts that are pretty much useless, the wrong proportions and maybe in combinations that cause inactivation of some of the components. They are just a money-making exercise, and all supplements should be carefully checked before buying!

[Titaniumfox]

Again it largely depends on how good that particular supplement is. We can only absorb around 25 mcg of B2 at a time so amounts above that are largely useless (but doesn't matter as excess will be excreted in urine - you can see it as your urine will go a bright yellow colour).

[helvella]

A frequent topic on PAS forum.

Some claim gigantic does of folate are needed - 5mg. No-one who has been challenged on that claim has ever returned with proper evidence.

But most say that so long as you are getting a reasonable intake - say 400 micrograms a day - that should be plenty. You don't need more simply because you are taking B12.

[JGBH in reply to helvella]

I was told by my GP (AhAh) to take one folic acid tablet (5 mg) on the evening I inject B12. Does that make sense to you and is it correct. I also take a super B-Complex sustained released & high potency tablet each day Igenus brand. I have paused this for 3 weeks but think I must restart again soon. It’s so difficult knowing what to do for the best. Clearly we patients can’t rely on GPs. Thanks for the information given. It will be interesting to see what reply you get if any.

[helvella in reply to JGBH]

First, I am absolutely no expert on folates/folic acid.

I do not see why that would be sensible - but that is my ignorance speaking.

As I understand, folate levels require very regular topping up rather than expecting a larger dose to last. Something like 200 or 400 micrograms a day if your level does not remain good from diet alone.

I suggest you ask on the Pernicious Anaemia Society forum and see what opinions you get from those who do inject regularly.

[JGBH in reply to helvella]

Thank you. You always seem to know so much! I will check with PAS.

[helvella]

All too many on PAS have believed a particular facebook private group which insists on 5 mg - indefinitely - while having B12 injections.

Some have found PAS, reduced to a sensible dose, and felt far, far better.

[Wua13262348]

I think I may be taking the Vitamin B12 supplement from Amazon you are talking about. The brand begins with a "V". I haven't had my B12 levels checked since taking it.Within the next couple of months I definately will be getting them checked. If doctor won't check I will check with Medichecks. If my levels not super high will let you know. Previously used a 1000 dose B12 tablet which was unfortunately cyanacobalamin, rather than preferred methylcobalamin, from a very well known high street chain store. Made the mistake of taking a tablet the morning of B12 blood draw, which doctor said was okay. Total serum B12 was appox. 1089 in range of 190-900. Maybe 7 months later did an active B12 home kit from Cerascreen where levels deficient if below 50. Again , had taken 1000 B12 tablet that morning. Active B12 was 151.4. If you can tell me if the liquid you are taking begins with "V" I'll let you know if it appears to be raising my B12 levels or not. It is a red liquid combination of methylcobalamin, adenosylcobalamin and hydroxocobalamin.

[Wua13262348]

Will let you know what I think when I eventually get B12 checked! Don't know how to private message you. Hopeless with technology!

[helvella in reply to Wua13262348]

Most things are better said on forum - unless there is a specific reason not to!

[Wua13262348 in reply to helvella]

Just wasn't sure if Alice's Mother would be aware I had answered her if appeared as a general post, since may be a month or two before I test B12, was all. It is the same supplement we are taking. I am wondering now if it is a defective product, and if have not been getting benefit from it. Since various people seem to doubt its efficacy, thought I had better not name the manufacturer directly in case against the rules of the forum. It was referred to as a red liquid from Amazon. Is it correct to withhold the name of the manufacturer on the general forum in these circumstances? Just trying to keep within the rules is all.