T3 at bedtime? Does it help sleep?

[BiscuitBaby]

Hi folks

I take 125mcg levo and 10mcg lio. I take my levo in the morning with 5mcg lio and another 5mcg at bedtime. I take Thorne basic b and 4000 iu vitamin d during the day. I cut my 20mcg thybon henning into 1/4. The other night I took a very big quarter. It obviously went a bit wrong when I cut the half. That night I had the best sleep I've had for years. I'm not sure it's a coincidence or not but I wondered if anyone takes their full dose at night? I feel ok at the moment but I would love to go to sleep and stay asleep like I used to.

Thanks

[shaws]

The following is a link which may be helpful:-

healio.com/news/endocrinolo...

[BiscuitBaby in reply to shaws]

Thank you. I had a quick read. Interesting. Not sure I'd like to move my t4 to bedtime. I like a wee cheese and biscuit in the evening sometimes whereas I'm OK to wait for breakfast. Don't want to change to much at one time.

[jimh111]

It makes a very big difference. I find with the right dose of liothyronine at bedtime I fall asleep in reasonable time and have deep good quality sleep. With too low a dose I wake up multiple times and don't feel refreshed. The brain works hard during sleep and so I suspect it needs T3 to work. I don't take the full dose at night but do take a larger dose at night.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to jimh111]

Thanks jimh111. I was considering a trial of 7.5 at night and the other 2.5 in the morning. Your description is exactly how I sleep. OK for the first part of the night then I am waking a lot and never feel like I sleep. Apart from my sleep I feel pretty good. It's reassuring to know that I'm not imagining it. Thank you. I think I might try a bigger dose at bedtime.

[knitwitty]

Hi , I take 12.5mcg of Lio daily , I used to take it in a split dose at bedtime and in the morning but I decided to try taking the full dose at bedtime with my levo , as jimh says below I get a great night's sleep and I wake up refreshed. I was worried about it keeping me awake but it has done just the opposite.

It also means I don't have to worry about interactions with vitamins as I take those in the morning.

Good luck.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to knitwitty]

Thank you knitwitty. That's interesting. How do you feel during the day? I feel ok during the day apart from tired but I'm almost sure it's because I get crap sleep. I only take 10mcg. Are your energy levels ok during the day?

I'd like to try what jimh111 does but nit sure how easy it would be to chop my quarter into eighths!!!

Thank you for your reply.

[knitwitty in reply to BiscuitBaby]

Hi again, I feel completely normal , but it was only after taking T3 for a few months that I started to feel completely well. It wasn't an instant improvement for me like it is for some people . I take all my medication at bedtime around 11.00-11.30 pm and I feel great , I don't nod off in the afternoon and I can exercise and do normal things , I just feel well !

[Lotika]

Hi BiscuitBaby, I used to take T3 on waking and at bedtime (5 mcg both times, on top of my T4) and my endo suggested I move the night time one to about 2pm. It didn’t impact my sleep quality negatively and I felt a bit better during the day. I seem to recall posting about timings of T3 and asking for others’ experiences and was struck by the fact that (as usual with thyroid!) different people find different things work best, so I say keep experimenting and go from there. As a random incidental, the best thing I ever did for my sleep quality was stop drinking; even a tiny amount seems to impact it negatively for me.

Lotika x

[BiscuitBaby in reply to Lotika]

Hi LotikaI did used to take mine at 2 as well but I work and it was really inconvenient to take it at 2pm. I moved it to 5pm but would forget. Particularly if I was late in from work. I then moved it to bed time. That has worked so far.

I've given up caffeine as well. I only have an alcolic drink on a Friday or Saturday. That does disrupt sleep as you say. Even one so I don't drink during the week or if I've got a busy weekend.

I think I'll just have to be brave and see what happens. I feel pretty good during the day so I don't want to change that. I'll never know if I don't try though I suppose.

Thank you for your reply.

[Cola4444]

I take half my dose about one hour before bed. My sleep has been lots better since doing this. Sometimes i'm awake about 3am for half an hour & then go back into a deep sleep until about 7.30am. For some.. a good amount of dose before bed helps sleep.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to Cola4444]

Thanks Cola4444. I'm waking at 3 as well but not going back into a deep sleep. Or even a light sleep sometimes. I'm going to try a bigger dose at bedtime and see what happens. Thank you.

[Cola4444]

Good luck. Give the bigger night time dose time to settle in. You may be a bit restless to start lule i was... but after a week it generally helped me to sleep thereafter. I also believe the T3 better helps to repair the body during a deep sleep.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to Cola4444]

Thank you for the advice. I have taken 2.5 this morning so I have 7.5 to take at night. I can always revert to 5 and 5 I suppose!

[CaptainBeOS]

Hi BiscuitBaby,

This link will give you the background you need on the matter, thyroidpatients.ca/2020/07/...

I'm on combination therapy and after reading this I shifted my entire dose of Levo and Lio to bedtime and haven't looked back it's so good.

It's not just a tonic to your sleep, but also to your whole body rhythm, including your cortisol cycle. So you get benefits of improved (reduced) heart rate and better healing. Fewer aches and pains. Reduced cramps if you get them.

My only niggle is that Lio burns fast so I get a crash at about 2pm. This is solved by swapping some of the Levo and Lio for NDT so that 50% of the T3 comes from Lio and 50% comes from the NDT. That way there's a bit of fast burning T3 to give the peak needed at 2:00am and slow burning T3 so serum levels taper off more naturally. NDT burns much more slowly because it's bound to thyroxine binding globulin, so enters your blood as Bound T3 not Free T3. Lio enters your blood as Free T3.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to CaptainBeOS]

Hi CaptainBeOSI will have a proper read later thank you. I am concerned about the dip in the afternoon. I'm starting with a 7.5mcg dose at bedtime and 2.5mcg in the morning. I figured that might stretch the dose. I might have to move the whole dose as the tablets are tricky to chop. I'm hoping that better quality sleep will counteract the dip!

I'm glad it's worked well for you.

[CaptainBeOS in reply to BiscuitBaby]

If the dip persists and causes problems, then another line of investigation is covered by this article also by the same endo as the first:

thyroidpatients.ca/2019/11/...

The way I interpret this article is to avoid too much T4 (i.e. T3 dominance) or taking too much T4 in one go.... Apparently this causes Deiodinase type 3 to kick in inside you cells. Deiodinase type 3 is a protection mechanism intended to protect your cells from excess T3 hormone by deactivating the T3 before it can reach the cell nucleus to do it's job. It's triggered by both T4 and T3, but, as T4 levels are much higher, T4 becomes the dominant trigger. What it means is that if you have abnormally fluctuating Free T4/T3 levels as is the case when you take synth once or even twice a day, it could cause an excess of Deiodinase type 3, which in turn could cause tissues that are very sensitive to T3 to go hypo, such as the brain. I.e. you get a crash many hours after the initial dose.

I don't get the crash when I take a more T3 dominant regimen than at present.

There is a chap who has posted before on these forums who uses a micro dosing technique, which is taking 25mcg of T4 evenly spread throughout the day. In his case every 4-5 hours. He says it's very effective at preventing the crash because it mimics the constant release of hormone that a natural thyroid does. I've not tried it yet because it sounds like something I'd forget to do, but it's on my bucket list.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to CaptainBeOS]

Thank you for the summary. I had a quick look at the link but its not light reading for me!! I can see the logic in taking smaller doses of t4 throughout the day but personally I'd never be able to manage that regime. I just about manage the levo/lio/vitamin regime. I will monitor my energy levels over the next few weeks and see what happens. I could move my 2.5mcg to mid day. That might counteract any dip but really I'm hoping improved sleep will help. Thank you for your advice. It's really helpful. Once again I'm so appreciative of this forum. I've no idea where I'd be had I not found it. I certainly not feel as well as i do now!!

[Titaniumfox]

I tried having a small (6.25 mcg) dose of T3 at bedtime a couple of years ago but found it too stimulating. I could however take 25 mcg at 2.00 a.m. and afterwards slept far better for the rest of the night! On reading some experiences in this thread, I thought I'd try a larger bedtime dose to see if that changes anything, but I felt so unpleasant from it that I got up to go online and wait for the effect to wear off - definitely won't be doing that again! T3 seems to suit me best in the wee small hours then a later dose early afternoon.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to Titaniumfox]

Hi titaniumfoxThanks for your reply. It's all very complicated. I don't rend to get a stimulating effect from my dose at all. I took 7.5mcg last night and had feel quite refreshed this morning. I will keep at this for a while and see how I get on. It just goes to show that one size doesn't fit all!

[Titaniumfox in reply to BiscuitBaby]

Yes very true! I'm trying to recall what Paul Robinson said about bedtime doses of T3 - I think tolerating it depends on one's cortisol level but not sure if I'm remembering that right. Will try to find out!

[BiscuitBaby in reply to Titaniumfox]

Thanks. I certainly feel like I slept well last night. I suppose its trial and error to see what works for me!

[Titaniumfox in reply to BiscuitBaby]

It's really good to hear that it improved your sleep!