I read articles on stop the thyroid madness site. I always seem to read articles which say that T4 doesn't work and T3 is needed. For example they say this
Can I get optimal on just T4-only like Levo or Synthroid?
Hardly ever, we have experienced or observed as patients. And even when someone gets close, it’s not uncommon to still see problems, sooner or later. Sadly, there are too many life situations that can block the conversion of T4 to T3.
I wondered what the concensus was on this site about it. I don't see as much comments on this site about people struggling with T4 and the answer for them was T3 after years of taking T4.
I know everyone is individual I get that and understand that, but on their site there seems to me to be overwhelming support for T3 and not to waste your time with t4
Jump1
Lots of members here aren't that impressed with STTM.
Why?
Well, I don't ever read it so I don't really know why, but reading what you have quoted gives me a pretty good idea.
I read another forum where they are very pro NDT and push that as the preferred medication over anything synthetic, including T3.
As you say yourself, everyone is individual so nobody can say that T4 doesn't work and we need T3. Many Hypo patients do very well on Levo only, probably not too many on forums because they're getting on with their lives, it tends to be the ones who struggle on Levo only that frequent forums etc.
Please don't confuse STTM with some other forum. Sttm does not push ndt and supports other t4 and/or t3 meds as required.
That's not what Susie said. She said that sites often have their preferred methods of treatment which they tend to promote. Such as NDT on one site and t4 t3 combo on STTM.
I thought STTM did push NDT as THE only way to go. That's the impression I always got. And it doesn't tolerate anyone who says any different.
Yes, that was true until all the brands of NDT ended up dodgy, either due to reformulations or unidentified problems that made them work less well. Erfa, for instance, denies its product Thyroid was reformulated; yet, it changed for the worse after production facilities were moved from Belgium to Spain. After the remaining US brands - WP, NP, Naturethroid - also stopped working, the STTM reluctantly started recommending T3+T4 combos - along with OTC products such as Thyro-Gold.
Not ALL brands of ndt are dodgy! Pharma would have you believe that though as theyve bern peddling that long and hard. Theyd make more proft on the synthectics that they love us on!
STTM can be useful but I find their views not always balanced. They believe that you are now best to add T3 in if the levo doesnt work. They are not recommending the ndts very much these days as they are unstable they say. They do say some people do well on Armour. Ive been on ndts for around 15yrs. I had to switch to Armour a while ago as mine was taken off nhs list as it was inconsistent in its level of active contents. Taken me a long while to adjust to Armour but I have now.
It really is a question of what works for you. Many do great on levo, my nextdoor neighbour is fine on levo. Quite a lot of the problems is GP ignorance on how to manage treatment optimally. Then there are a few of us who do need T3 adding in either via a synthectic or switching to a ndt. Then fewer still who do best on T3 only. The problem with treatment these days is ignorance, under treating and the inabilty to see and provide the diversity of options to meet all needs. And lastly the insistance of a TSH over 10 before you can even start treatment means many people are very ill by the time they get to that level so its a long way back up.
Sadly there sems little sign of this dire situation changing which leaves more people forced into self treating and self funding.
In fact, it´s the STTM thas has used expressions such as "all US brands of NDT have gone south". That of course does not include Thai NDT or OTC products (glandulars).
Yes indeed Purplecat I dont feel it has the considered responses we have on here. I like the fact we have diversity on this site, people pop on research etc, present differing virws, far more talk of balancing the other co factors needed. However I do like the fact you can look at the contents of each NDT, including fillers on STTM.....Ive not found that easy to find on one page elsewhere so that is my go to page for that.
The STTM used to promote NDT until all the brands were reformulated and said to work less well. Until then, the site always claimed that NDT was superior to other forms of treatment due it also containing T1, T2, and calcitonin.
Ah, OK. I haven't been on there for ages! So that would explain it, then.
NDTs were the very first thyroid hormone replacement since 1892 and it saved lives.
Before it was introduced hypo patients just died.
I think as it was made from animals that the human body was more conducive to NDTs as it was made from animals' thyroid glands.
They only started doing that recently. Until all the available prescription brands of NDT were reformulated and stopped working well, the STTM constantly claimed that NDT was superior to all other forms of thyroid hormone replacement, including synthetic T3. The reason for this was because NDT is bio-identical and said to contain T1, T2, and calcitonin as well as T3 and T4. The STTM only started supporting synthetic T3+T4 combos when there were no working brands of NDT left. Until then, the STTM was always saying that patients denied NDT were "missing out on something". The claims they make today are very different from the ones they made a few years ago, but all the problems with US brands + Canadian Erfa made that necessary.
Not all ndts stopped working well. People are doing well on armour, Thyroid S and Ive read of the German formulation is it Thyron....something, cant remember its name. There definately has been a problem with consistancy in some NDTs in recent years which is very sad. Am not sure why that is. But it has caused me to have to switch a few times!! Lol....still on ndt but back on Armour.....this time doing well on it in the end, but thats because thanks to this site I know far more about the other co factors that need optimising. And that seems to have made the difference this time round.
PPower
Sttm does not push ndt
I didn't say that. Maybe read my reply again to be clear.
SeasideSusie thank you for validating that T4 is important . I had T T and from my personal experience I dose with both T4 and T3 and I can tell you if I don't have enough T4 I have all sorts of symptoms I can not sleep well and my concentration is not as good. It's like my brain is missing T4 . There is a very good reason why healthy thyroids make both T4 and T3. Granted that some thyroid patients that don't have any longer healthy working thyroids of their own do much better with T3 sole. That has to be respected as well. It's not one size fits all. But T4 most definitely has its needs by many of us.
Me too jgelliss. As someone who takes Levo plus T3 I find that I can't function with FT4 low in range, it has to be around 2/3rds through range and pretty well balanced with FT3, yet others function just fine with a lowish FT4 as long as FT3 is in the upper part of it's range.
Thank you SeasideSusie for validating that we all have our individual needs. It's a Tremendous Blessing that this Great Forum respects individuality. It speaks volumes.
Thank You.
Just curious: how do you get your FT4 up there when taking T3 as well? As soon as I went on NDT my FT4 dropped below midrange and won´t budge.
Hidden
I don't take NDT, I take Levo plus T3 so I tweak the doses of each to suit my needs, the fixed ratio of T4:T3 in NDT is approx 4:1 and it doesn't suit everyone.
Yes I feel better on T3 alone.
It's Great that you found your very Best with T3 dose sole. Many are still trying to find their *Optimal*with either T4 and some T3 added or T4 sole . Or NDT if they can find one that works well. And finding Dr's that are open minded and out of the *Box* that are willing to prescribe the thyroid meds that work best for the patients. Glad your one of the lucky ones . Lets hope that everyone gets their thyroid meds that works *Best* for them.
I had to do it myself though. I was told after diagnosis in 1999 that Levo was the only thing that I could have. And they stuck to it.
I came to to this Forum in 2019 because I was sick and tired of wading through black treacle.
I bought my own T3 in 2020 and asked whether he would help me through a trial, He refused because he said T3 was an illegal!
I don't understand this Dr. Our own healthy thyroids make both T3 and T4. Is he aware of this?
Such doctors are rare, unfortunately...most are TSH-obsessed and many won´t even test free Ts...especially FT3. Many doctors I´ve been to over the years have admitted not knowing what T3 is. Which is why many have to self-medicate.I think one big problem is that hypothyroidism is considered easy to diagnose and treat by most doctors. They think that, as soon as we are on levo and the TSH is anywhere in range, we are "cured" and all remaining symptoms must be due to something else, like depression, stress or menopause.
When I had my first covid jab I was asked to fill in a form, and one question was "Do you have autoimmune disease"? I ticked the "yes" box and then specified "Hashimoto´s thyroiditis". I was then told "It´s not considered a disease"....
That is so ridiculous. Hashimoto Thyroiditis is most definitely autoimmune disease. I read somewhere that in Medical Academia Dr's get very little education when it comes to thyroids. If that is so is it a surprise that patients are not getting the right diagnosis and treatment? It's great that you took matters in your hands and self treated. I wish I would have done the same. I didn't know better unfortunately at the time.
It would seem that doctors are taught very little about thyroid disease in medical school, and that they are told to go by the TSH whether it´s for diagnosing or treating a patient. They are also told that levo is all that is ever needed.
Your so right. And what else I find that most Dr's are not well educated when it comes to nutrients. It's come time that the Medical Academia should revamp itself for the benefits of patients . When a Dr tells a patient that T3 converts to T4 . It tells you everything.
"It´s not considered a disease".... Yeah , right ... that would be why it entitles us to free prescriptions then .
I 've had this issue before, on a form for something or other , it's bloody infuriating .
I've also had a phlebotomist look down her nose and say "but you don't know it's autoimmune do you " ...... well , Duh " actually i thought TPOab of >3000 was pretty conclusive proof , yes"
The ignorance of the medical profession never ceases to amaze me...
I, too, am well on liothyronine (T3).
One thing that annoys me is that it has loads of spelling mistakes. Especially of company and brand names.
I'm sure I make my fair share of typos, but I do try hard to correct them if they are noticed.
Having the same spelling mistakes and other errors for year after year implies a certain lack of care and attention to detail. Which is likely to affect far more than brand names.
Examples:
PHIZER for Pfizer.
Activas for Actavis. (And even then, out of date, now Allergan.)
Describing Sigma's liothyronine tablets as "Has an 18 on one side, a greek E on the other." When the reality is it has a Greek Sigma 𝚺 and 18, 19 or 20 depending on dosage.
Anyway, that is enough to make me very wary of trusting the site.
I agree, helvellyn. If you make a typo, you can correct it, but they don't seem to be edited. I have a thing about American English anyway. I don't like it!