New labwork, confused with symptoms and results

[Incoguto]

Good morning,

I am very confused with my symptoms and bloods.

About 4 weeks ago I have lowered Levo and added a bit of Armour as I didn't feel right, felt overdosed (feeling hot, fast heart rate, palpitations), my labwork on 2.6 Armour Armour 12.5 Levo:

Ft4 = 48% range

Ft3 = 84% range

I have lowered Levo by 6.25 per day, increased Armour by 1/8 of grain and here are my results:

Ft4 = 44%

Ft3 = 69%

(TSH increased a bit, but it is still suppressed, which I know is absolutely fine)

My symptoms are still fluctuating a bit, but I have issues sleeping, feel too hot at night, can hear my heart thumping at night, but it's not fast, my face is now swelling again, bags under eyes appeared again and dryness/thirst.

I wonder if I can feel all this from above results? It feels like a mix of hypo and hyper symptoms..

I now take 2.75 grains of Armour and 6.25 Levo.

Thank you!

[greygoose]

Having a mixture of hypo and hyper symptoms is most people's experience. Mainly because very few symptoms are 100% hypo nor hyper, but can be due to both. Plus the fact that the exogenous hormone you are taking is not going to be evenly distributed throughout all the millions of cells in your body - some will be getting too much, and others not enough. This evens out as dose increases.

But your symptoms do sound more hypo than anything else. So, looks like you reduced your dose too far. And, actually, there was nothing wrong with your results on 2.6 Armour Armour 12.5 Levo. I take it that's 2.6 grains of Armour? Not quite sure how you manage to get that dose...

I wonder if I can feel all this from above results?

Most certainly you can, if it's not the right dose for you. Maybe you can try increasing the levo. The result is very low on both sets of results.

Are all your nutrients optimal?

[Incoguto in reply to greygoose]

Thank you greygoose. That does make sense, it feels like I am fluctuating quite a bit during the day, but my face is much puffier and hypo looking plus dryness is a good indicator too.

I felt poorly on the previous dose, felt like it was way too much, no sleep, heart palpitations every night, hunger pangs, sweating, blurry vision and felt demotivated.

On higher Armour and less T4 now felt more like myself, but now feel a bit more hypo. And my cholesterol has gone up a tiny bit too.

I guess I wanted to eliminate Levo completely as adding it also causes issues for me and was hoping to increase Armour further in hope I could maybe tolerate it better and the t4 component in it.

I get 1/4 grains tablets and can split then in half, it's not too bad.

Do you think my ft4 is low on both sets?

All nutrients optimal, checked the other day, but iron fell from 50 to 4%...in the last 3 months. I used to take liquid iron and changed to a pill form and it's worse. Ferritin still the same, b12 very high in range folate midrange, vitamin D optimal now too.

[greygoose in reply to Incoguto]

I felt poorly on the previous dose, felt like it was way too much, no sleep, heart palpitations every night, hunger pangs, sweating, blurry vision and felt demotivated.

They could all be hypo symptoms.

On higher Armour and less T4 now felt more like myself, but now feel a bit more hypo. And my cholesterol has gone up a tiny bit too.

So, it's sounding like your FT3 is too low.

I guess I wanted to eliminate Levo completely as adding it also causes issues for me and was hoping to increase Armour further in hope I could maybe tolerate it better and the t4 component in it.

Well, then, why not do that? Your FT4 is low, but that's fine for some people. I like my FT4 to be at zero! Try stopping the T4 completely, and then a week later, increase your Armour. See what happens.

I used to take liquid iron and changed to a pill form and it's worse.

Maybe go back to the liquid iron, then.

Interpreting an iron panel

[greygoose in reply to greygoose]

Do you take magnesium?

More help with iron

[Incoguto in reply to greygoose]

I should have mentioned, these were results 24 hours after taking meds including t3. Don't have same symptoms on lower doses, but I get depressed, bloated and all hypo, so my thinking was trying Armour only.You are right, I can try it and see what happens. Worst case scenario - I will need to go back. I would kill for a night of sleep! The other thing is that I have been taking it only for 4 weeks, this dose now.

Going back to the liquid form, just had it now and lactoferrin, which suppose to help with iron absorption.

Interesting about magnesium. Would you take these together?

I talked to my dietician today, she said when hypo iron can be low as poor absorption and when iron low then also low thyroid.

Thank you so much 😊

[greygoose in reply to Incoguto]

these were results 24 hours after taking meds including t3.

OK, so you have a false 'low' FT3. If you had left the recommended 8 to 12 hours, the FT3 would have been higher. So, perhaps you were/are over-medicated.

Do you take vit C with your iron? That helps with absorption and protects your stomach.

Interesting about magnesium. Would you take these together?

I certainly wouldn't take iron and magnesium at the same time. Iron should be taken at least two hours away from everything else, except vit C.

But, I would take magnesium anyway because most people are deficient and being hypo would make that worse.

I talked to my dietician today, she said when hypo iron can be low as poor absorption and when iron low then also low thyroid.

Most nutrients are low with hypothyroidism, due to low stomach acid, which does make absorbing nutrients difficult. But, not sure what she means by: when iron low then also low thyroid. Your thyroid hormones are low because you're hypo.

[Incoguto in reply to greygoose]

Should I take my full dose in the morning and test after 12 hours or split (I really don't feel well when splitting)?I take vit C with iron, correct .

Okay, I will buy magnesium, thank you! Any particular type that is well-tolerated?

She talked about stomach acid specifically, spot on. Sorry, she meant that when iron is low and/or ferritin, conversion of hormones can be impaired, resulting in lower levels. But then I don't have the lowest levels. However, no insight as to what goes on at a cell level 🤔

[greygoose in reply to Incoguto]

The usual advice is to split the dose on the day before the blood draw. I can understand that you don't feel good splitting it, but it's just for one day, and it will give you a more accurate idea of your FT3 level. By leaving a gap of 24 hours, you really have no idea of that level.

Yes, low ferritin can affect conversion, but so can any other nutritional deficiency. They all need to be optimal for the body to be able to use thyroid hormones correctly.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

I have lowered Levo by 6.25 per day, increased Armour by 1/8 of grain and here are my results:

Might have been better to lower armour and increase levothyroxine

It’s all trial and error what suits each person

When were vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 last tested

[Incoguto in reply to SlowDragon]

I am having issues with adding Levo to Armour. My fatigue is increasing when I add more Levo, have insulin resistance like symptoms with hunger pangs and sugar crashes, I am depressed and irritated and really bloated, that was with ft4 = 44%, ft3 = 73%. It is so daunting to do fine tuning

Vitamin D is now upper limit of optimal, folate exactly midrange, b12 is very high in range, but no over, ferritin is the same as previously in September, 30% of range, but unfortunately my iron fell from 50% to 4% over 3 months and all I have changed was taking iron in a pill form instead of liquid so maybe this is do with that and also the nurse took 10 vials of blood yesterday, I felt really dizzy, but not sure that affects levels of serum iron with ferritin staying the same...