Suppressed TSH or higher cholesterol? - Thyroid UK

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Suppressed TSH or higher cholesterol?

I’ve been sat musing over this tonight and wondered what other’s thoughts are on this ?

On the one hand you have doctors and clinicians wringing their hands over a suppressed TSH causing heart problems. Logically TSH would be suppressed by the introduction of synthetic thyroid hormones as the pituitary would identify their levels in the blood and if sufficient would not produce TSH to kick the thyroid into action.

But then, if a person is under medicated to bring TSH into range, you run the risk of higher cholesterol which increases the risk of heart attacks and strokes. Have they considered the relative risks? Is there anything the more knowledgeable members could point me in the direction of?

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Charlie-Farley

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33 Replies

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greygoose3 years ago

Well, no, actually, high cholesterol does not cause heart attacks and strokes. That is a myth. If you want more information on that subject, I suggest you check out Dr Malcom Kendrick:

drmalcolmkendrick.org/

amazon.fr/Cholesterol-Malco...

However, even though high cholesterol is a symptom, not a disease, it should be taken seriously because it's an indication that your FT3 is too low. And, low FT3 could very well lead to heart problems. And the solution is more T3, not statins.

Charlie-Farley• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

Ah cool- this helps me make sense of the bings thank you greygoose 😊👍

greygoose• in reply toCharlie-Farley3 years ago

You're welcome.

mountainice• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

My husband had a TIA a couple of years or so ago. He has been on statins since. He had a neck swelling and he was found to have thyroid nodules; they said they do nothing about this. His neck swelling has subsided. He is on Clopidogral 75mg and Pravastatin 20mg. Hi cholesterol ratio is 3.5. He was also found to have a piece of plaque in his neck. Not sure whether I should be getting him a thyroid test online.they only tested his TSH and that was in 2020 - Serum TSH level 1.5 miu/L [0.3 - 5] . They didn't test anything else.

greygoose• in reply tomountainice3 years ago

I think it would be a good idea to get him a full thyroid test - I think everyone should have one, whether they feel ill or not. If they're well, it would be a good idea to have a base-line of what their results look like when they're well, in case they develop a thyroid problem in the future.

But, even if his cholesterol was high, that wasn't what caused the TIA, because cholesterol doesn't do that. What causes heart problems is low T3, low nutrients and inflammation.

The reason cholesterol is found in the arteries of people who die of heart attacks is that cholesterol is nature's sticking plaster. When the arteries, etc., are damaged by inflammation, the cholesterol comes along to cover the wound until it heals. But, it's the inflammation causing the blockage, not the cholesterol. When the wound is healed, the cholesterol is absorbed by the cell walls, because that's what cell walls are made of. A good daily dose of vit C would probably be of more use to most people than statins. And less dangerous.

mountainice• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

thank you. I have made a new email address for him so we can order a test online, as it has to be different to my email. I'm going to print that and show him.

greygoose• in reply tomountainice3 years ago

You're welcome.

JAmanda3 years ago

I use this argument whenever my Endo tries to take away my liothyronine.

annnsandell3 years ago

Do we know enough about the pituitary gland? And why does no assume that goes wrong as well? Who set the TSH levels? Is T3 not tested enough because they don't want to treat it? Why is it always assumed that higher cholesterol levels are the patients' fault through lifestyle? Later research suggests that T2 controls cholesterol release from the liver, T2 isn't tested or treated but I believe you can assume that if your T3 is low, so is your T2 set. Bad cholesterol is said to fur up your arteries restricting your blood flow contributing to clots as opposed to making your heart go wrong. I wonder what the statins bill for the UK is.

shaws• in reply toannnsandell3 years ago

In past years, before blood tests were invented, we were diagnosed upon our clinical symtoms alone and given a trial of NDTs (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) that were slowly increased until the person felt much better with relief of their clinical symptoms. Patients no longer died.

NDTs were withdrawn by the BTA a couple of years ago but am not sure whether or not they've been restored.

Big pharma introduced blood tests and I believe the main decision was that it increased their profits too.

In this modern era few, if any, doctors can diagnose a patient through their clinical symptoms alone and rely solely upon the results of blood test (if they think to take one). Mine didn't). so I had to diagnose myself - a couple of hours after GP phoned to say I had no problems as rblood esults were fine..

Myself being ignorant about hypo anyway - like many of us on this forum -I had never heard the word or knew anyone who had hypothyroidism. My GP thought a TSH of 100 was 'fine'! It's a blessing that I had also requested a few weeks earlier a blood test form - I have put my history into my profile. If you wish just click on my name and it takes you to my 'page'.

All patients have their own page but few put in their journey to being diagnosed with a dysfunctional thyroid gland.

I doubt the medical professionals are aware that a TSH result can vary throughout the 24 hours of each day. That's why we recommend the earliest blood test as TSH is highest early a.m. and drops throughout the day.

thyroiduk.org/further-readi...

Charlie-Farley• in reply toshaws3 years ago

Thank you this info adds context. I’ve got a quieter winter (guesthouse is seasonal) so bit of time to start reading again. 😊👍

Charlie-Farley• in reply toannnsandell3 years ago

And I wonder what the kick back for those prescribing is?

greygoose• in reply toannnsandell3 years ago

T2 isn't tested or treated but I believe you can assume that if your T3 is low, so is your T2 set

No, I don't think you can assume that because it's not just T3 that is converted to T2. rT3 is also converted to T2. T4 is always converted to 30% T3 and 30% rT3. Both are converted to T2. rT3 is rarely tested.

Charlie-Farley• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

Is there a paper or book you can direct me to to start studying this in more detail- GPs tend to roll over if:

1) you ask them questions they can’t answer and

2) you supply them with more information in relation to your results and symptoms back up with credible references that they simply haven’t got time to read! 😂😂😂

I’ve used both these tactics to good effect 🤪👍.

Thanks to this forum for providing me with the info that got me well.❤️❤️❤️

greygoose• in reply toCharlie-Farley3 years ago

Not quite sure what you want to study. But, the information about T4 being converted to T3 and rT3 comes from this paper:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2...

If you can get your head around that lot, you're a better woman than I! lol

Charlie-Farley• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

Thank you greygoose!

I just think I’ve a vested interest in this! LOL! Studied environmental science for a few years, so medical science not my area, but I know, like mud being chucked at a wall, if I persevere, eventually knowledge sticks! Guffaw. Yes- I’m expecting this to be a long process.

I’m 53 and a self-declared study junkie!

I did City and Guilds domestic electrical installation this summer- been on my bucket list for years and in preparation for when we sell up and go renovating houses.

greygoose• in reply toCharlie-Farley3 years ago

It's confirmed: you're a better woman than I!

Charlie-Farley• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

Nah! Not possible! We all help each other no man or woman is an island.

greygoose• in reply toCharlie-Farley3 years ago

True. We all have our role to play. Study just isn't my bag. I've had to struggle to learn as much as I have about all this. And I only did it to survive, not for the pleasure!

Charlie-Farley• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

Me too initially so I could fight my corner but I’m hooked now. 😊👍

Charlie-Farley• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

Hi greygoose - just read it! I wish I could say I was surprised but having seen some of the numpties getting funding for ridiculous research I’m not.

For example, earthworms require moisture to survive.

I saw a supposedly seasoned scientist put earthworms into vessels with no liquid and desiccated nettle powder that was spiked with a contaminant.

The purpose of the experiment was to measure uptake.

When the researcher came back the next day guess what? All the earthworms were dead and this research I was completely surprised all I could do was roll my eyes 🙄.

Quite unbelievable until you’ve seen it for yourself.

greygoose• in reply toCharlie-Farley3 years ago

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Unbelievable!

tattybogle• in reply toCharlie-Farley3 years ago

I did City and Guilds domestic electrical installation this summer

great . just pop down the road and box in my unfinished wiring would u

Charlie-Farley• in reply totattybogle3 years ago

Boxing in? Could give you a hand if you want to tackle it. Are the cables clipped or loose at present?

tattybogle• in reply toCharlie-Farley3 years ago

just indulging in wishful thinking .. that bit still needs a floor up ..... and a wall down .... and a decision on how to heat the 2nd floor ..... and some plaster .. and some skirting ... and some motivation to return to taking off the 3 layers of woodchip that are (probably) holding that bit of the building up ......... but now you're in my little black book of " women that can" ...... you'd better watch out (when you've sold yours ........ if you find a building you want to renovate.. if it's got 3 layers of woodchip in the hall .... RUN ..... )

Charlie-Farley• in reply totattybogle3 years ago

Guffaw! I bought a house in Lancaster when I first moved up that hadn’t been lived in for 2 years. Even the spiders had left - quite eerie! First two weeks I cut brambles out of the drains. A year in the spiders moved back in I felt quite honoured- marked an improvement in living conditions as the house was double glazed and I had central heating installed. I renovated the house and towards the end met hubby to be. Then after a few years ended up buying the guesthouse. More renovations! There is still stuff to do but major infrastructure has been upgraded - all the stuff people can’t even imagine exists in a house this big 😂.

Be glad to move onto smaller projects.

tattybogle• in reply toCharlie-Farley3 years ago

lol.my new dream is one of those little 3 room Scottish crofts ... the ones were you can clean your gutters out by just standing on a chair outside the front door !

i'm sick of figuring out tall thin buildings with half landings and corridors everywhere . This one has been a guest house , then 3 flats, then a house with an abandoned flat on top , then empty , then i bought it hoping to find it's soul under the layers of 80's crud.. and discovered much of the structural work from the 70's comes under the category of 'appalling and expensive to fix properly'. and the Victorians weren't much better .. one of my chimney breasts is 'brick for the first 4 feet' and 'rocks from the beach' for the rest... and the foundations for the outrigger at the back seem to be '3 slates sat on the earth'.

I used to live in one of those big Victorian houses on Ashton Rd .. really well built.. i thought these would be built the same ... i know better now....

Charlie-Farley• in reply totattybogle3 years ago

Oh yes! We have had to come to compromises with this building and had to make major investments in the body. Years of bodging and underinvestment took years to make good. Croft sounds perfect- I’ve even considered a tiny house on wheels but I think that would be a leap too far! 😂

annnsandell• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

But as it isn't tested, I guess we'll never know. Just thinking about poor conversion.

greygoose• in reply toannnsandell3 years ago

But we do know that rT3 converts to T2. And with poor conversion more of that T4 gets converted to rT3, which is converted to T2. So, the amount of T2 you have depends on the amount of T4 you start off with, not the amount of T3.

annnsandell• in reply togreygoose3 years ago

Yes I am agreeing although some are saying that T2 also comes direct from T4 but of course all interconnected.

greygoose• in reply toannnsandell3 years ago

No, T2 cannot come directly from T4. The iodine atoms have to be removed one at a time. So T4>T3/rT3>T4.

annnsandell3 years ago

That's interesting, I'll have to look out that report.