Increasing Levo in a combo with Armour - irrita... - Thyroid UK

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Increasing Levo in a combo with Armour - irritation, anger, tiredness

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3 years ago•11 Replies

Hi All,

I have been on a decreased dose of Armour + levo about 7 weeks, my results were:

Ft4 = 44%

Ft3 = 73%

This was on 2.5 grains of Armour and 15.6 mcg t4 (alternating 12.5/18.75 mcg).

Finally on this dose started to sleep, didn't feel so hot anymore. However, after about 5-6 weeks I did start to feel exhausted and dizzy.

My hunch was to increase Levo slightly, which I did, to 18.75 mcg everyday (I react to small increase right now as I'm fine tuning this dose).

Initially was okay, but after about 9 days I have become unbelievably irritated, angry, depressed, teary and tired. Also started to have trouble sleeping, but not very hot yet.

As a trial, on day 10, removed a bit of t4 and added a tiny bit of Armour and anger has eased, but feel dizzy, tired, hypo, and increasingly hot.

Does anyone feel irritated on adding t4? Still can't decide if I need to keep adding Levo and decrease Armour when feeling irritated etc or get rid of Levo completely.

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11 Replies

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pennyannie3 years ago

Hello Sleepymouse,

I couldn't tolerate any measure of synthetic T4 with my NDT :

Why did you drop your NDT dose, did you feel over medicated ?

Why did you add the T4 ?

• in reply topennyannie3 years ago

Thank you for your reply!

May I ask what symptoms you were getting with synthetic levo?

I dropped NDT end of August because I was getting overdosed symptoms (insomnia, but a lot of energy, then crashes, hunger, feeling hot with temps 37.3-37.4, shaking, head spins). My ft3 was over range 24 hrs after testing, my ft4 was just over midrange.

I reduced Armour by a smidgen, and ft3 dropped to 73% 7 weeks later, ft4 dropped slightly from 51 to 44%.

I added T4 in December last year as I was feeling hypo hyper (cold then hot, insomnia, anxiety, tiredness etc) with ft4 24%, ft3 80%. I dropped Armour from 2.6 to 2.375 and added 6.25 t4 initially, then added more t4 and increased Armour at some point.

It is so difficult to know what's what.

This irritation scares me, it normally peaks an hour after meds for a few hours and eases off by late afternoon/early evening. It's so bad that I feel like throwing things and screaming for no reason.

pennyannie• in reply to3 years ago

On NDT only I managed to get to 1 + 1/2 grains which I take at around 3 00 am in the morning.

A blood test 10 hours later gave me a T3 over range at around 7.8 and a T4 at just 25% but I felt good with no signs of over medication.

I do dip in the PM so I thought I'd try and add some T4 - 25 mcg to maybe stretch out my energy a little further into the evening.

I experienced severe joint pains ?? Twice - so binned the T4 :

I've tried increasing my NDT with a little in the PM but so far haven't been successful :

I'm thinking maybe a little T3 would be faster actioned so I should know if this helps me which maybe my next experiment.

However at 74 I don't intend to go disco dancing any longer and another part of me thinks I should stay put as I'm so much better than I ever was on monotherapy with T4.

I'm with Graves and post RAI thyroid ablation in 2005 so require full spectrum thyroid hormone replacement.

• in reply topennyannie3 years ago

So I couldn't increase 25 mcg t4, because of joint pains, I was only able to work up to 18.75 over many months. I feel that t4 has to be added very slowly when we already take NDT.I see, so your result is over range like mine, but I test after 24 hours of taking the dose, not sure what the result would be after 10 hours 🤔

It's hard isn't it?

I also don't do well on T4 only or on synthetics only. Have to have NDT!

Ah I see, I have Hashimotos and central hypo, so my thyroid produces zero hormones.

I think I either need to be on Armour only with higher t3 and lower t4 or drop Armour a bit to accommodate t4 increase and have more balance labwork.

pennyannie3 years ago

Why do you think you need to take T4 as well as NDT ?

NDT has been used successfully for over 100 years to treat hypothyroidism long before there was any knowledge of blood tests, let alone ranges and guidelines, and doctors simply listened to the patient and treated the patient's symptoms.

A small nugget of pig thyroid would be shaved off from the total gland and the patient would chew on this slither of the gland.

If the patient still had symptoms a larger nugget would be given at a follow up appointment, so forth and so on until the patient felt better and the right size nugget found.

When Big Pharma launched synthetic thyroid hormones in around the 1960s the guidelines, blood tests and ranges were also introduced to be used alongside this new treatment option.

Do you take your NDT all at once along with the T4 ?

If you were over range after 24 hours, obviously you would have been much further over range after 10 hours, and I think that you are likely over medicate and presume you don't feel " quite right " ?

With NDT you can have a low T4 as it is the T3 that matters most :

A low T4 in my opinion simply tells me that I'm converting it into T3 as my T3 is nice and high and I have less symptoms of hypothyroidism than when on monotherapy with T4.

I run myself slightly hypo, it's not perfect but it' a darn site better than anything else I've tried.

You should not be looking for balanced blood work :

• in reply topennyannie3 years ago

Yes, I was 7.1 after 24 hours, range up to 6.8. But yes, I felt really overmedicated, that was end of August this year.Absolutely, I agree with you, it's not about numbers, I was only on Armour for 5 months, 2.65 grains and with ft4 24%, ft3 80% was feeling both hypo hyper, freezing cold then hot, dizzy, swollen, no sleep. I was not able to add anything to my dose. The only way was to remove some Armour and add t4. And it made me better. I really wasn't feeling well on the above

• in reply topennyannie3 years ago

Hello pennyannie, I have a little update. I am on day 3 of taking more Armour, but I have decreased Levo at the same time and became completely depressed, lost appetite, just feel numb and upset. I wonder if this is a blip and maybe tomorrow will be better 🤷‍♀️

3 years ago

Update: I'm day 3 on increased Armour and decreased Levo, I feel depressed, numb and teary. This really has me puzzled.

pennyannie• in reply to3 years ago

I don't think three days is long enough to assess any hormone changes :

With Hashimoto's you have the added problem of your own thyroid producing erratic levels of T3 and T4 and would think this more likely to be what is upsetting you.

Have you looked into the work and research of Dr Izabella Wentz as she has this disease and has found by healing the gut and reducing food intolerances to such things as gluten, wheat etc, reduced her antibody levels which in turn helped reduced the " swings " in hyper and hypo symptoms experienced by people who suffer with Hashimoto's.

• in reply topennyannie3 years ago

Thanks, I am familiar with all of it, I know also the original cause of my Hashimotos.I don't get swings anymore as my antibodies have decreased significantly and I have central hypo, so no chance of it.

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