Ashwagandha & Bacopa -- When can I get lab tests?

[Xheila]

First I will note that thyroid patients on meds are warned not to take these herbs because they can affect your thyroid levels. I decided to try anyway, due to my adrenal fatigue. I began ashwagandha (150 mg/day) 3 months ago, and then added a mixture of ashwagandha (125 mg) and bacopa (300 mg) four weeks ago.

So far, my life is better in myriad ways, especially notable are the absence of fatigue and mental fog. I started and am maintaining an exercise routine!

My lab values have never been terrible, but I am on a very high dose of Armour: 180 mg (equivalent to 300 mcg levo). I began on a mere 15 mg Armour 3 years ago, and my prescription has only even been increased.

My question has to do with when I should take my lab tests to get accurate results? I am getting some symptoms of my thyroid levels changing: hair loss started last week & is more intense this week, nose bleeds, loose stools, a bit of trouble staying asleep.

Do I have to wait to get tested or can I do it this week? Should I stop taking the ashwagandha and bacopa for a few days beforehand? I would like to see how the herbs are affecting my levels, but I just don't know what the best option is here.

Thank you!

[Lalatoot]

I would wait 6 to 8 weeks in total from starting the herbs as this gives everything time to adjust.Leave 12 hours between Armour and blood test.

I would dispute that 180mcg armour is equivalent to 300mcg levo! 60mg Armour contains 38mcg T4 and 9mcg T3. So 180mg would be 114 mcg T4 and 27mcg T3.

[Xheila in reply to Lalatoot]

Thanks for the tips! Sorry if I got the Armour/levo conversion wrong, I was just trying to provide a reference. But then you made me realize that, no, certainly to us patients, Armour and Levo are not equivalent.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Xheila

I think 3 grains (180mg) Armour is quite a common dose rather than a very high dose.

When taking NDT (or T3) you should take the last dose 8-12 hours before doing thyroid tests, even if this means splitting your dose into 2 or 3 and adjusting times the day before.

If you can get your blood draw and the sample tested the same day there's no reason why you can't do it this week as long as you follow the guidance for last dose of Armour. However, if you are taking biotin or a supplement that includes biotin (eg B Complex) then this should be left off for 3-7 days before the test.

I don't know of any reason why you should stop your ashwagandha and bacopa but I'd not take them until after the test on the day. Same applies to any supplements or other medication you may be taking.

[Xheila in reply to SeasideSusie]

When taking NDT (or T3) you should take the last dose 8-12 hours before doing thyroid tests, even if this means splitting your dose into 2 or 3 and adjusting times the day before. Oh, man, I've never done this before, just taken Armour the previous day as usual, which is once first thing AM. I'll follow your suggestion from now on. I'm kind of relieved that 180 mg Armour is not that high a dose. Good to know.

Thank you!

[humanbean]

I am on a very high dose of Armour: 180 mg (equivalent to 300 mcg levo)

The NDT companies often report that 1 grain (60 - 65mg of NDT) of their product is equivalent to 100mcg Levo, but this is an over-estimate.

Most NDTs contain 38mcg T4 and 9mcg T3 per 60mg or 65mg of product.

There are various opinions on how potent T3 is compared to T4. Many of us on here think T3 is 3 times as potent as T4.

So, 1 grain of NDT is equivalent to 65mcg Levo, so your 180mcg of Armour is equivalent to 195mcg Levo.

Edit : I notice that Lalatoot went through all this before me!

[Xheila in reply to humanbean]

That makes sense! I have read many posts here from people taking just 50-100 mcg levo, so doing the conversion I thought I was on a somewhat massive dose. I'm more comfortable knowing I am more in line with the norm for patients.

[Serendipitious]

Xheila,

There aren’t enough studies on adaptogens that’s the issue. Ashwaganda has some conflicting information but the issue may be if you have Hashimoto’s. Adaptogens can change adrenal function which can affect the thyroid. Sounds like they are helping you. But they shouldn’t be taken long term and having the advice of an experienced practitioner to guide you is a good idea.

Some of your symptoms sound like overstimulation. What are your lab results?

[Xheila in reply to Serendipitious]

Yes, I have Hashi's. I haven't had any labs since May, before I started the herbs, but since I'm on NDTs, my T3 is usually good in range (last result was 3.8 pg/mL range 2.3-4.2) but my T4 is always very low in range (0.9 ng/dL range 0.8-1.8). My T4 has never budged from any amount of NDT. I have read a bunch about ashwagandha, and it appears that it does affect thyroid hormone levels, specifically T4. Some of the studies further described a raise in T4 but not T3 *(though they measured total T3, not Free T3). I've never found any results from people who are on thyroid meds; like you said, there aren't enough studies. I'm eager to see if anything changed now.I've heard you are supposed to treat your adrenals before treating your Hashi's. But I didn't do that years ago, and I spent years running on fumes. Thanks for pointing out not to take these adaptogen herbs long term!