T3 dizziness.

[Murphysmum]

I’m feeling rough - again.

Kind of my own fault, I decided to add in some elderberry to my supplement regime without checking if it interferes… for reference, it does!

So combined with my monthly post-menstrual, low progesterone dip 😳, I’ve probably managed to drive my Ft3 level down even further. I have just done bloods to confirm this.

However, I’m getting dizziness from my T3. I’m certain it’s that as it happens consistently about half an hour after I’ve taken it. I’ve had dizziness in the past but usually as a symptom of taking too much.

Could it just be that if my levels are low it’s the sudden rush of hormone that’s causing it? (Not the best explanation but it’s the only way I can describe it!)

Thanks 😊

[shaws]

T3 goes into the T3 receptor cells and then sends out 'waves' throughout the 24 hours. Re dizziness, would you consider taking it at bedtime - just as an experiment?

[greygoose]

Can I ask you in what way elderberry affects thyroid? Do you have any links to that? It's not something I've ever heard before.

[Murphysmum in reply to greygoose]

Well neither had I until I started feeling off and looked it up on here actually. I don’t recall what answers exactly I found - more several people asking if it interacted and it fitted my circumstances.

I had been looking at taking quercitin as part of my supplement protocol but it does interact. So I looked for another zinc ionophore which elderberry is.

However I guess it stands to reason that if quercitin didn’t work with thyroid hormones then something that does the same job does too!

It was silly because I know I always feel slightly worse at this time (progesterone dip) so this has I think made my levels dip even more.

The bottom line is I need to find a way to stop every little thing affecting my T3 levels. I can’t seem to keep them consistent but I have in the past. The only thing that’s changed is my reliance on progesterone supplementation.

[greygoose in reply to Murphysmum]

From what I've gathered after a brief search is that elderberry is not good for autoimmune diseases. Do you have Hashi's?

I can't find anything that talks about it affectying thyroid hormone replacement. So, if taken at least two hours away from thyroid hormones, it should be ok.

I think I'm going to give it a try and see what happens.

[Murphysmum in reply to greygoose]

Yes, I do.

I suspect if I were on levo it wouldn't make much odds, or at least it would take longer. That the thing I'm finding over time with T3 - no cushion when things go wrong!

[greygoose in reply to Murphysmum]

Well, from what I've understood - but I could be wrong! - elderberry strengthens the immune system, and could therefore provoke more attacks on the thyroid, causing swings in levels. It doesn't act on the the exogenous hormone itself. But, if you're having more attacks on the thyroid, levels will fluctuate.

Presumably, this will hasten the death of the thyroid, when these fluctuations should stop. Pretty certain my thyroid is dead by now, so no more attacks - think I had my last one when I was 50! So, the elderberry shouldn't have any effect. But, I'm going to take it - as soon as it arrives - and see what happens. I love elderberry, it tastes so good! And, if it can have beneficial effects on my body, all the better. I've planted one in my garden but it hasn't had any fruit yet. Can't wait! lol

[Murphysmum in reply to greygoose]

haha! I'm glad I've got you enthused!

May be it wasn't the elderberry - I did initially think it was a good idea but...

Let me know how you get on, I'm fairly certain most of my thyroid has gone too so I don't know what went wrong. Maybe I was just having a dip anyway and have added 2+2=5.

[greygoose in reply to Murphysmum]

I certainly will let you know how I get on.

[FancyPants54 in reply to greygoose]

Soak some of it in vodka. That's nice!

[Murphysmum in reply to FancyPants54]

That isn’t the reason for my dizziness - just to be clear!

[greygoose in reply to FancyPants54]

Nah, don't like vodka. Might try gin - when I finally get my elderberries!

[FancyPants54 in reply to greygoose]

I don't like vodka either, but I think it goes better with elderberries than gin. Damson gin is my absolute favourite.

[greygoose in reply to FancyPants54]

Don't get damsons in France, unfortunately. Damson jam is my favourite jam.

[tattybogle in reply to greygoose]

found it !

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... discussion with elderberry researcher in this post.

( RedApple sending you a timely reminder to go and find some elderberries to scrump while they are still there this year)

radd Murphysmum

[greygoose in reply to tattybogle]

That is wonderful! Thank you so much, tattybogle. What a wonderful woman that JuliaWM is! Doing research on all the things that matter: food. 'They' always say that for every ill nature provides an antidote.

[tattybogle in reply to greygoose]

Glad to be of help.

Fortunately i put it in 'saved posts' .. else i'd never have found it again.

[greygoose in reply to tattybogle]

That is fortunate indeed!

[radd in reply to tattybogle]

tattybogle,

Wow, I love that post! Makes me want to try them now.😊

[tattybogle in reply to radd]

me too , have just decided to go for a walk with a carrier bag and pick some

[radd in reply to tattybogle]

tats,

I'm just googling to see what they look like 🤓. We live on the South Downs so not sure where I will find any and am actually quite useless at making anything like that 😄

Have a nice walk.

[tattybogle in reply to radd]

'Up North' , they're usually everywhere .. in town , they like hanging around at bus stops , in the country they will be every few 100yard along every other hedgerow . so unless you're unlucky with the wrong soil type down there, just go for a walk in any old direction and you'll probably find an elderberry before you find a bus .

[FancyPants54 in reply to greygoose]

Really?! Oh gosh. Yes, damson jam is my favourite too. I have my own tree. Love them. I had no idea they were only a UK thing.

[greygoose in reply to FancyPants54]

I don't know if they're only a UK thing, other countries might have them but not France. Or, perhaps, they have them but they're not used commercially. Like gooseberries. You can buy gooseberry plants in garden centres, but you can't find gooseberry jam in the supermarket. And, to be honest, I've tried in several different gardens, but gooseberries just don't seem to flourish here. Maybe it's the same with damsons, I don't know.

[FancyPants54 in reply to greygoose]

Damsons flourish in Derbyshire and around there, so they perhaps don't like it too warm. My tree has done poorly this year due to the weird weather.

[greygoose in reply to FancyPants54]

Could be. But I live in the north of France, not the south. There's not much difference in the weather here, where I live, and the south of England.

[tattybogle in reply to greygoose]

I won't be able to find it , but a year ago i was talking to a lady on here who was already running a science research project on elderberries and then started looking at it's effectivness on covid . At that point in proceedings it was looking like "elderberries = v. good for immune system"

Re. The elderberries in the garden .. note for future ... move washing line and/ or car away from underneath the tree ... otherwise results look like murder scene

[Murphysmum in reply to tattybogle]

Well that was why I started taking them. They’re good zinc ionophores, so I added it to my regimen.Bad move though, it seems!

[greygoose in reply to tattybogle]

🤣🤣🤣

[radd]

Murphysmum,

Elderflower isn’t classified as an adaptogen but can still be very influential & if you have negatively reacted to it you should avoid it for now.

To over simplify the explanation, T-helper cells (TH) are lymphocytes (WBC's) that recognise foreign pathogens or in autoimmune disease, normal tissue. In response to this recognition they produce cytokines (hormonal messenger proteins) responsible for the biological effects of the immune system. There are many subgroups but the main ones influenced by Hashi are TH-1 & TH-2.

In a normal functioning immune system both work together to keep immune balance & well-being but because the Hashi immune system is more reactive, we are often dominant in one of these subgroups & it is this that determines what adaptogens/herbs/flowers/foods/chemicals/etc are beneficial or negative for our Hashi condition.

The dominance of these subgroups also increases our susceptibility to other autoimmune conditions. For instance Hashi often goes hand & hand with RA, PA, Sjoren’s, Celiac and Lichen Planus.

This is big explanation 😬 but just to evidence your reaction is real and to listen to your body.

[Murphysmum in reply to radd]

No - I LOVE the big explanations!

I’m a scientist by training so I like to get to the nuts and bolts of things.

I don’t suppose you’ve got any useful info on female hormones (progesterone in particular) you’d be willing to share? I think this is my next challenge but finding good quality info is really hard.

Thank you - I will avoid, permanently 😊

[radd in reply to Murphysmum]

MM,

Oh, I am such a doh-brain 🤪, I thought you were referring to elderflowers. Anyway elderberries are definitely an adaptogen so us Hashi's either love em or hate em!.

Sex hormones are more complicated than thyroid if that's possible. Usually for us with long term Hashi & adrenals issues there's none left to carry us through (peri)menopause or we get elevations of one & severe deficiencies of another when they should be equally opposing.

A deficiency in progesterone can always result from an elevation of oestrogen caused by clearance issues. You might find something as simple as helping liver function helps balance. How do you know you are low? Have you had sex hormones tested?

[McPammy]

Hi,

I get dizzy if I’ve gone over medicated with T3 medication.

This is my alarm bell to pull back on medication. Sometimes it works if I reduce my Levothyroxine dose rather than the T3.

[Murphysmum in reply to McPammy]

Yes! Me too. So I can only assume that I’ve gone really quite low in my thyroid levels, so then when the wave of T3 hits it’s almost like a temporary feeling of being “over”.

Does that make sense?

I’m not taking anymore than previously, slightly less in fact so I don’t think it’s that

[McPammy in reply to Murphysmum]

Are you doing less. Are you burning it off. Have you had a change in your Levothyroxine. Another thing that can push my T3 levels up and occasionally over is introducing Ferris Fumerate and B12. Have you increased or added these? Or maybe other vitamins ? Just a thought as this has happened to me. It soon settled down though.

[Murphysmum in reply to McPammy]

ooh, now that is a thought!

Yes, I started properly taking all my supplements about a month ago after being a bit lax with them for rather a long time. Maybe thats it, thank you!

I've never noticed the correlation before but I've always been at a time when I was gradually increasing my dose anyway, so I wouldn't have noticed particularly.

very interesting - thank you!

[McPammy in reply to Murphysmum]

We need to keep our vitamins optimal to help the conversion from Levothyroxine to active T3 so I guess when we optimise them the conversion should get better. For you it may have pushed you slightly over medicated with your T3 now. But really we wouldn’t know that without blood tests after taking your meds not before. When I got dizzy I had a blood test and my T3 was over the range. So now I know dizzy = over medicated for me.

[serenfach]

I have just made an elderberry and apple crumble. It looks like I will have to eat it all now for the good of my health. I had to walk a bit to get them as I had taken the elderflowers earlier in the year for elderflower champagne. And the sheep had eaten any low hanging berries!

[tattybogle in reply to serenfach]

my walk was a success, it resulted in a carrier bag full of elderberries, a tub full of blackberries, and a carrier bag full of what look to be cooking apples .... and 18 raspberries ! no idea what raspberries canes were doing next to the railway line , must have escaped from somewhere, or maybe it used to be allotments. Anyway, after a day of tedious fiddling about i now have a big bottle of yummy elderberry syrup, with orange /ginger /cinnamon in it .... and a massive crumble ........ oh, and an elderberry stain that i dripped on hubby' s favourite shirt while spoon feeding him some to taste .... oops ...

Todays exiting adventure will be "how to get elderberry stains out"

[Murphysmum in reply to tattybogle]

😂

[serenfach]

I once made some elderberry wine, had got to the mash in a tub stage and had to go out. I should not have put a lid on the tub, as it fermented and blew the lid and the contents all over the kitchen. It looked like a mass murder had taken place, there was scarlet gloop dripping from the ceiling..

How to get the stains out? Dont know, I moved house!

[tattybogle in reply to serenfach]

Well i've tried hard .. and it seems elderberry stains don't come out .. so i've said it's his fault for not putting it into soak sooner.

LOL .. my dad once tried ignoring hundreds of years of knowledge and decided to make his marmalade using the wrong oranges, in the pressure cooker , before going out to the pub for his lunch ... He never owned up to the ensuing explosive incident , but the evidence on the ceiling (and everything else in the kitchen) was very compelling .. but he was too old to move house so he just stopped looking at the ceiling instead.