Dreaming

I have noticed over the last few weeks that I've started dreaming again. (I hadn't realised I'd stopped!)

I'm due more bloods in a fortnight so we'll see what they say but did anyone else notice this?

Seems a strange symptom of UAT! 💭

[jimh111]

I think this is very important. We know that sleep quality is impaired during hypothyroidism and indeed I would like to see sleep EEG used in thyroid studies to give an indication of the effects on brain function.

I have noticed that when I am adequately medicated (mainly with L-T3) that I tend to sleep better and have more vivid / realistic dreams. If I am undermedicated I fall asleep OK but my sleep is shallow, I wake up many times and my brain function the next day is rubbish. Also, about 80% of growth hormone (GH) is produced in deep stage 4 sleep and GH is needed to repair the micro-trauma that occurs during the day. I notice if I have poor sleep with little or vague dreams I get minor aches and pains. My hunch is that during deep dream sleep the brain reorganises itself, tidies everything up and makes room for more memory. It clearly needs T3 to do this. I have found that my bedtime dose of L-T3 makes more difference to having a clear mind than the morning dose. The brain works hard during sleep!

As an aside looking at your blood tests from 11 days ago I suspect you will do much better with some L-T3 if you can get it. See how you do with just L-T4 but perhaps be ready for a battle if you don't recover in the next few months.

[Hidden in reply to jimh111]

At the moment I'm only having stress dreams which isn't great but a start, I suppose!

I'm wondering if it's due to the iron transfusion I had. Perhaps its starting to kick in.

I am also full of aches and pains! Generally in the form of tight muscles which doesn't seem to improve with stretching. Most notably, hamstrings, neck, and jaw! But the too-tight hamstrings has caused knee and hip issues.

I've steeled myself for needing T3; I've already made the choice to go private if I need it. I simply don't have the strength to fight for it.

My T4:T3 conversion has been getting worse the higher the dose of T4 I take; I've considered lowering my dose back to 75mcg where I had best conversion but that feels risky.

Got bloods in 2 weeks which will be about 6 weeks post iron transfusion so we'll see what effect, if any, it's had on conversion and go from there.

I'm impatient though because I just want to get on with it!

[jimh111 in reply to Hidden]

TSH promotes T4 to T3 conversion so as you take your L-T4 TSH falls and the rate of T4 to T3 conversion falls. This is fine for most people but if your TSH is lower than might be expected you get caught in a vicious circle. It's worth taking a magnesium supplement such as Mg Citrate if you don't already, this has a relaxing effect on muscles. Mg oxide and Mg hydroxide are no use but most other forms are fine.

[Hidden in reply to jimh111]

This is really interesting.

How does this balance off against optimal vitamin levels? If conversion goes down with TSH and up with optimal vitamins, would I now be balanced off? I.e. no real movement either way? (In theory at least!)

I think my most accurate results recently were in May. The June ones were taken 2 weeks after my covid Jab so that's no doubt made an impact.

Felt best with T4 overrange but I've no clue why it dropped to 19.3 because I'd changed nothing else except taking 125mcg per day instead of 100/150. Struggle to believe it would make that much difference.

Results table

[jimh111 in reply to Hidden]

Blood test results can vary somewhat from time to time. The blood tests are not exact, they are subject to minor errors, our thyroids may give out some hormone from time to time and TSH in particular varies during the day and time of month for menstruating women. TSH is also pulsatile so it will vary a little.

Vitamins don't really affect thyroid hormone levels, I guess they might if there is severe deficiency. Hypothyroidism may affect vitamin levels and so we can experience symptoms of vitamin deficiency alhough I think these effects are exaggerated apart from perhaps vitamin D.

[Hidden in reply to jimh111]

Essentially I guess I'm holding onto hope that I don't need T3 but my conversion is getting worse and I still can't go for a run.

[FancyPants54 in reply to jimh111]

Wow! You just wrote what I think. I haven't dreamed much at all in years now. Before HRT, I swapped dreams for nothing or random hideous nightmares with terrible creatures and danger in them. Husband would have to wake me up and I'd be trying to scream. Once I was on HRT they stopped, but the dreams never returned. When I started to add T3 to Levo at Christmas I did have a few short dreams popping up. But nothing for months again.

Typically I go to bed and fall asleep fast and hard until morning and wake up shattered with brain fog as well as exhaustion. I don't have sleep apnea. I feel as if I haven't felt well for decades. I think it's thyroid linked.

Interestingly I just recently tried increasing my Levo as the T3 has dropped my FT4 level a lot, lower than ever before. But after a few days on 150 Levo from 125 I started not to be able to get to sleep and then to wake up several times in the night. I have tried reducing Levo to 100 in the past and lain awake half the night repeatedly until I went back to 125.

Finally I think the penny is dropping, I need more T3 and when I have enough of that I should look to reduce my T4 and swap for T3. I think I need some to help me drop off to sleep. But at this level Levo makes me feel worse in many ways. 2 days ago I didn't take any Levo, only my T3. This was because I'd decided not to keep on with the higher Levo dose as I could hardly walk for the pain in my legs, back and feet. Hardly walk at all. I wanted to reduce my Levo store a little. On the day I took just T3 I got loads done at work and went for a walk to find the swans I feed. Usually I drive to find them. My legs were jerky and not exactly comfortable, but I was walking! After the day off I thought I should probably go back to 125 Levo + T3 and today I struggled to walk far again, with a lot of pain. Levo seems to give me pain. It has to be linked to the T3.

[radd]

plant_lady,

After adding T3 to my T4 I started sleeping well for the first time in years & years but could never remember a single dream, and this went on for about 2-3 years. Bizarre but shows the immense influence of thyroid hormone on the physiological aspects of our health.

[Hidden in reply to radd]

It just never crossed my mind that I had stopped dreaming, but come to think of it, it's been a very long time since I dreamt (or at least it's been a long time since I remembered my dreams).

But then, I suppose dreaming might be superfluous when your body is just trying to stay alive.

Are you dreaming now, radd?

[radd in reply to Hidden]

plant_lady,

At this exact moment in time? Yes, of a holiday in far off distant shores with a gin bar & a large glass 😆.

At night time, no because sleep is rubbish again since WPThyroid offered me suboptimal levels, and venesection (which I need for iron-overload) was difficult to access during lockdown. Result - elevated iron, low thyroid levels, & that infuriating habit of waking between 3-4am every morning & reading/offering my twopenneth on the forum 😁.

I hope your dreams are good ones, you know those ones that are really worth having!

[Hidden in reply to radd]

🤣 SAME!! Desperately trying to go see my dad in Europe but he's in an Amber country so it's looking very unlikely for us this year. Shame because I could really do with not being in my county for a bit!

Well, I think I'm going to be booking to see a private Endo soon so I'll see if dreams return properly if/when I get more T4 or a prescription for T3!

[radd in reply to Hidden]

plant_lady,

Then you can dream of a never-ending supply of thyroid replacement meds that restore well being and will never be suddenly reduced, withdrawn or become ineffective, or that extra large glass of G & T 😁

[Hidden in reply to radd]

One step at a time!! If it weren't for this forum though I'd be left thinking this was the best I could hope for for the rest of my life. 💔

[Bearo in reply to radd]

Why is it always 3-4am? No one reports waking regularly at 2am or 5am. And are most poor sleepers like me, can’t get back to sleep until 6-7am just for 30-60 minutes?

[radd in reply to Bearo]

Bearo,

Because 3am - 4am is that magic witching hour where blood sugars start wavering when the liver lacks glycogen reserves required for conversion. A quick snack whilst answering a few HealthUnlocked posts and I'm off in the land of nod again.

[Bearo in reply to radd]

Ooh, so I can go to bed with a plate of biscuits next to my eye mask. ( but it’s probably got to be good fats?)

[radd in reply to Bearo]

Bearo,

Haha, only if you need a top up but a turkey sandwich is better (if you could be bothered). My blood sugars issues had reversed so hoping this is just a little tiny blip.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Bearo]

I had poor sleep in perimenopause before I started HRT. It resulted in waking up with a jolt and pounding heart between 1-2am every night. Then I felt so bad I had to get up and amuse myself until about 4am then I could go back to sleep. Different hormones must have different body clocks going on.