A question about endos: I know that certain... - Thyroid UK

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A question about endos

Rock_chick1 profile image
Rock_chick1

I know that certain specific names can't be mentioned but I am interested to know if any of the better endos actually recognise weak adrenals/adrenal fatigue or do they only recognise the extremes such as Addisons and Cushings. I will be seeing a endo soon for Thyroid related issues but feel sure that I have adrenal problems also

44 Replies

My endo tested my adrenals when things went really wrong for me - otherwise she was pretty average as endos go - so they do exist.

Rock_chick1 profile image
Rock_chick1 in reply to Lalatoot

Thank you. What tests were done and did, what did they reveal and did she help you if you don't mind me asking

Lalatoot profile image
Lalatoot in reply to Rock_chick1

They were done at my GPs surgery on the NHS at the endos request. Blood tests including DHEA and 24-hour urine test. They came back within range so no further action. But it did clear the way for a trial of T3.

Rock_chick1 profile image
Rock_chick1 in reply to Lalatoot

And how have you been on the T3. Was it t3 only? You see I think it is because of my adrenals I'm not tolerating thyroid meds well. This information is in the Stop the Throid Madness book

Lalatoot profile image
Lalatoot in reply to Rock_chick1

I am on combo and it has take 18months of patience and small alterations of doses to find a balance. Prior to that I was unwell on levo only. The doses I am on now are nothing like the doses the endo initially prescribed. I am not a fan of Stop the Thyroid Madness. I think that there are better informed studies out there and I personally would not act on anything in that publication.

Rock_chick1 profile image
Rock_chick1 in reply to Lalatoot

When you say nothing like the endo prescribed. Is your dosing that has been successful higher or lower then the endo recommends

Lalatoot profile image
Lalatoot in reply to Rock_chick1

The prescription was 50mcg levo and 2x10mcg lio. I am on 2x50mcg levo and 3x2.5 lio.

Rock_chick1,

I have never met an endo who knew about adrenal fatigue and the treatment.

Such as how to dose glandulars (ie elevated cortisol can only tolerate adrenal cortex that don’t contain adrenaline) or adaptogens (such as Ashwagandha that is nightshade family so mustn’t be supplemented with elevated thyroid antibodies) or others that help cortisol levels raise, lower or normalise, that Vit C is most concentrated in the adrenals glands and so supplementing large amounts is beneficial as is salt, that eating a balanced snack/Adrenal Cocktail at bedtime stops that 3-4am wake up every single night, that our circadian rhythm gets buggered up with low thyroid hormone and can only recover with optimal thyroid hormone encouraged with iron & nutrients.

The list is endless but adrenals are actually quite robust with the right nurture back to good functioning. You might benefit more by seeing a nutritionist.

Rock_chick1 profile image
Rock_chick1 in reply to radd

Thank you for that. I am going round in circles with it all to be honest and still in very poor health. I can't raise on my thyroid meds and suspect is is due to poor adrenals support. Adrenal cortex supplements didn't work and I'm now even more hypo then I was as I'm on such a low dose of thyroid meds my TSH and T4 are now suppressed. I'm hoping when I see the endo he might do some further testing and come up with something but I'm not holding my breath!

Rock_chick1 profile image
Rock_chick1 in reply to radd

Also you are right about nutrition. I am working on that and the gut even though I'm already on a gluten free and dairy free diet

radd profile image
radd in reply to Rock_chick1

Rock_chick1,

Glandulars didn't work for me either. I have come to think of them as an ongoing maintenance tool rather than a repairing one, but there are many other powerful supplements that will help to support adrenals back to good function.

Cortisol issues and low iron are the two most common issues that stop any thyroid hormone working. Just reading your previous posts, I too suffered terrible heart bangs, sweating, the most chronic fatigue and hell with Levothyroxine for over four years. I now recognise that as adrenals issues (compromised by years of low thyroid hormone) that could not keep pace with the metabolism Levothyroxine had kick started.

Nutrients/iron are massive as influence thyroid physiology. For example vitamin deficiencies and elevated homocysteine (resulting from the vitamin deficiencies) can promote thyroid hormone resistance by hampering with the receptor sites [Datis Kharrazian]. There is much to learn and one problem seems to lead seamlessly into another, but when we have been so ill thyroid hormone replacement has to be provided with the right provisions to be tolerated and work well.

Serendipitious profile image
Serendipitious in reply to radd

radd,

Even in the functional medicine world, the term Adrenal Fatigue is no longer used. That doesn’t mean to say the symptoms aren’t real or don’t exist. The term is now HPA dysfunction. The idea being the adrenals don’t just get tired and stop producing cortisol, it’s a case of that they produce cortisol in a dysfunctional way.

Explained by one of my favourite educators Dr Carrie Jones: youtu.be/IB9v38E4eqw

radd profile image
radd in reply to Serendipitious

Serendipitious,

Haha, yes, agree but the O/P was using the term 'adrenal fatigue'.

No. They call it ME or CFS instead 🙄

Scrumbler,

They use those terms in NHS and the standard allopathic medicine world. I'm referring to the functional medicine world where previously and even now in some cases the words adrenal fatigue are used. However, most of that community has now dropped that description.

What have they replaced that terminology with ?

Nothing of course, things don’t easily change in the allopathic world 😂

FM uses adrenal dysfunction or HPA axis dysfunction if that’s what you were asking.

Probably long haul covid 🙄

Hi Serendipitious, that is sooo fascinating. How do I share it?

radd profile image
radd in reply to Pastelart

Pastelart,

It's on youtube. Just copy & paste from the address bar.

Pastelart,

Dr Carrie Jones is the best. Ideally you’d go to YouTube and use the share button. Sorry as soon as I paste the video here even in quotes it just adds the thumbnail. Go to YouTube and search for the title and you will find it.

Also, may I recommend this excellent video on everything you need to know about the HPA axis then you can understand dysfunction:

dutchtest.com/video/foundat...

And the Cortisol Awakening Response:

dutchtest.com/video/everyth...

Brilliant, thank you

Thank you so much. Carrie’s knowledge is awesome. The fact that she understands the complicated links and intricacies of our adrenal system is so refreshing. Our GP’s have such tunnel vision. I’m having a cortisol test later this month and I bet she tries to put me on steroids 😫😣

Pastelart,

Not just that she makes the most complex topic interesting, fun and easy to follow. I'd highly recommend following her on Instagram. Her posts are just the best. She does lots of Q&A videos too.

instagram.com/dr.carriejone...

Just realised I called you pasteltart on my previous responses. I've corrected that now but I'm so sorry!

Maybe I am a tart 😂

I thought it sounded quite good though. Each time I would see your name it was making me hungry! 😂

Pastelart,

This post really resonates with me. Its about the fight or flight response, but some people ending up just freezing, which is what I've done in the past and I just didn't understand why. Carrie's explanation is really helpful:

instagram.com/p/CNXeQBjA3KM...

Pastelart,

Hopefully with your increased knowledge you will be able to empower yourself and work with your GP to find a solution which is right for you. If not then there are other means out there. Your GP can’t force you to do anything.

I was reading something from a semi-celebrity doctor the other day who was doing the usual “adrenal fatigue” doesn’t exist spiel and that it had been invented by people posting rubbish on the internet.

It always amazes me that doctors won’t accept that adrenal glands could partly fail or need support. They seem happy enough to tell us that thyroid glands are partly failing, that ovaries are partly failing etc—but when it comes to the adrenal glands they’re either fully on or fully off.

Does not compute. :-o

Serendipitious profile image
Serendipitious in reply to Jazzw

Jazzw,

Please see what I’ve posted above regarding the latest research on Adrenal Fatigue. The term no longer exists even in the functional medicine world, now the words HPA axis dysfunction is used. Dr Carrie Jones, Medical Director of Precision Analytical, makers of the DUTCH test explains. A lot more research has been done now in this area. Whether your bog standard recognises this outside of the Addisons or Graves model is another thing. However this dysfunction could be classified within that spectrum with Graves and Addisons being the extremes.

Problem is there is nothing in their arsenal to support the HPA axis. Drugs can't be used for this purpose. Drugs and surgery are the main tools in the allopathic world so another approach, functional medicine, needs to be taken.

Having recently done a saliva test (which I arranged myself via ThyroidUK), I know I have a problem with cortisol/adrenals. I talked to my endo about this at my appointment on Monday. He said “cortisol won’t be affecting your thyroid.” 😱😱😱 I was aghast.

I therefore now firmly believe I’m on my own with this.

Localhero,

He probably meant in the context of what he can do for you. It’s all about whether you fit into the Addisons or Graves model and if you don’t nothing else in between matters.

Agreed. However, as I now understand (thanks to a link you shared here with me at the weekend 🙏🏽) adrenal issues are on a continuum. It’s not just about the extremes, right?

Localhero,

Yes indeed.

My Endo did a cortisol test and as that looked a bid dodgy also got a Synacthen test done. So I think some still do? he is private/NHS btw

radd profile image
radd in reply to PixieElv

PixieElv,

But should there be an adrenal dysfunction that's isn't as extreme as Cushings or Addisons would he recognise it as a dysfunction and be prepared to treat it with anything other than steroids?

Scrumbler profile image
Scrumbler in reply to radd

No. They are obsessed with ranges. I’ve had spot cortisol and SS tests done. Low in range but no problem. A bit like thyroid levels 🙃

PixieElv profile image
PixieElv in reply to radd

Hi raddAbsolutely no idea 😂. he’s been very good and willing to listen so far.

I hope you get it sorted.

Best wishes

radd profile image
radd in reply to PixieElv

PixieElv,

Ummm ... get what sorted?

PixieElv profile image
PixieElv in reply to radd

Finding the support/answers you need.

Rock_chick1 profile image
Rock_chick1 in reply to PixieElv

Was it saliva cortisol or bloods. Is he any good. I'm on the list to see one in Salisbury. Feel free to PM me

My endo tested for cortisol when I was severely hypo, I haven’t a clue why as I’m newly diagnosed

Billyboy2u profile image
Billyboy2u in reply to Dizzy444

Me too when I was first diagnosed as I was off the charts. Had Sylvia and urine test but they were in range ? Don’t know to say if I need them done again as I’m now having a relapse after 1 1/2 years.

Hi There, not sure if I'm adding this comment too late but I have just been to a private Endo on Thurs she spent just over 45 mins listening ! and lots of questions ! I'm hopeful she seemed pretty good I took a lot of my latest blood results but it lead to her talking to me to me about adrenals which she is testing for first and Addisons is another thing she did mention too but adrenals were top of the conversation before I left I've always wondered myself about the Adrenals my nhs one he has been a let down

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