More than 2.5m people in England to get free vi... - Thyroid UK

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More than 2.5m people in England to get free vitamin D

helvella
helvellaAdministrator

This is just meant to advise so that anyone who is interested will know what is planned.

More than 2.5m people in England to get free vitamin D

Care home residents and clinically vulnerable to be offered four-month supply

More than 2.5 million people in England are to be offered a free supply of vitamin D by the government, officials have said.

Care homes in England will automatically receive supplies of the supplement for their residents in plans announced on Saturday. People on the clinically extremely vulnerable list will be sent a letter offering them the chance to opt in for a supply to their homes.

The free deliveries will start in January, providing four months’ worth of vitamin D to up to 2.7 million people.

Public Health England (PHE) advises everyone to take 10 microgrammes of vitamin D a day between October and early March, particularly the elderly, people who do not go outside and those with dark skin.

Rest of article accessible here:

theguardian.com/society/202...

59 Replies
oldestnewest

When my vitamin D was 7 about 10 years ago my GP complained about the cost of the tablets he was prescribing to me. When I went back to get a repeat prescription I was told to buy my own.

Yep and glucosamine which Quack said they say it don't work but is BS as it does!

shaws
shawsAdministrator

That's good, what with lockdown etc and people afraid to go outdoors if the sun shone.

SlowDragon
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to shaws

Winter sun in U.K. is useless anyway

Not strong enough to make any vitamin D October to April

shaws
shawsAdministrator in reply to SlowDragon

I agree but we had lots of sun for a number of months during lockdown.

SlowDragon
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to shaws

But with modern lifestyle of daily showers/baths and sunscreen many people remain vitamin D deficient even in summer

Coating themselves with sun cream kills it also.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to shaws

For those of us who could get out in it.

People without gardens with suitable orientation. People shielding (seems to vary a bit but some were at times told not even to go out into their gardens).

Mostew
Mostew in reply to helvella

Doesn’t that just show how strange some of their orders / rules are !! As if it isn’t safe to be in garden

Vit D at least is a good idea in principal

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to shaws

But only about an hour a day was permitted if you had no garden - it was ridiculous.

Thanks for posting that helvella. I think it is really good that the value of vitamin D is finally being recognised - how long have we at TUK known that and beaten our heads against the brick wall of ‘medical experts’!

I’m not sure either that the recommended dose will be high enough and I bet there will be no regular testing done either. Still on the whole I think it is progress.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Fruitandnutcase

I think it is really good that the value of vitamin D is finally being recognised

Half of me agrees, but the other half remembers Cod (or Halibut) Liver Oil - widely considered a normal thing for children to avoid rickets.

We really need to understand the processes which resulted in the un-recognising of vitamin D, however supplied.

Oh I well remember cod liver oil and orange juice. Thank heavens for taste free omega 3 oil capsules. I loved the orange juice though.

I suppose if you think about it a lot of things that were done back in those days have been discontinued. Vitamin D being one, BCG vaccinations being another although I don’t think TB ever completely died out - in my teaching career I had three of children with it - one had it in the eye, one in a gland in his neck and one I’m not sure where but she caught it from her father who came from somewhere in Indonesia.

I suppose it is a compromise between cost and how active a condition is. In theory I suppose ‘they’ think that diet ought to be much better now and people ought to be getting enough vitamin D, plus I think in olds days people may have been out in the sun more but I’m just guessing.

I didn't know that BCG vaccinations had been discontinued. I wonder what the logic of that idiocy was from the powers-that-be.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to humanbean

NHS snippet about the rationale:

Why do we no longer vaccinate teenagers with the BCG at school?

The BCG is no longer offered to children in secondary schools in the UK. It was replaced in 2005 with a targeted programme for babies, children and young adults at higher risk of TB.

This is because TB rates in this country are low in the general population.

TB is difficult to catch because this requires close contact with an infected person, usually over a long period of time.

For example, you're very unlikely to catch it by sitting or standing next to someone who's infected.

nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinati...

humanbean
humanbean in reply to helvella

Thanks for the info.

Marz
Marz in reply to helvella

TB still kills millions every year - in poorer countries. One report said 1.5 million - another 2.5.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Marz

It does.

Should the BCG be re-introduced for all in the UK?

(Please ignore the various suggestions that BCG just might have some role with respect to SARS-cov-2 - there is too much uncertainty about that to reach sensible conclusions.)

Marz
Marz in reply to helvella

No I am not a fan of the BCG - having had it at 14 and then Ileo-caecal TB at 27. TB is linked to LOW VitD - like so many serious conditions - immunity seems affected.

An intensive supplementation programme for VitD and other vitals would be appropriate in my non-medical opinion. More GP awareness needed too ... both testing and treatment.

I appreciate there are some unable to tolerate VitD 🌻

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to helvella

I though they still did it 🙄 I had a very high reaction to the heaf mantoux (it seems to be two different tests the former now discontinued I remember a round punch like instrument making a mark in my arm like pin pricks that became quite inflamed) when I came back from three years in Africa where TB was rife but I was able to avoid getting it, I was told the reaction indicated I had been recently exposed to it. I assume I was protected because I was given the BCG as a teenager

oscarbravo
oscarbravo in reply to helvella

That's why it's on the increase in some areas!

shaws
shawsAdministrator in reply to Fruitandnutcase

I think that due to people having insufficient money at present if they've lost jobs etc that children should be given supplements of orange and cod-liver oil otherwise I believe they could develop illnesses later on in life.

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to helvella

How I loved crunching on halibut oil capsules and feeling them burst in my mouth and run down my throat - not everyone’s cup of tea but I thought them quite delightful. I don’t think they exist any more...much to my disappointment, but perhaps I am wrong. What I don’t get is why if I take D3, I immediately get cramps in my legs in the night. I added magnesium malate but it didn’t totally stop the, only quinine does that, despite the recent poo pooing of the efficacy of quinine. In my case it really is magic at ridding of cramp. My latest blood test (I finally perfected the downward plank method you suggested and avoided the blood cells exploding - except for biotin which I thought rather odd - so many thanks for the tip) says my vit d is in the optimal range but iron is a just below optimal. Perhaps I don’t need D3 supplements and cramp is my body’s way of telling me so.

crimple
crimple in reply to helvella

Helvella I would imagine the "process" would be cost. The bean counters unable to understand that paying a few pence to prevent ill health is far more cost effective than the cost of "clearing up the mess" from lack of the Vit D

The BBC doesn't know whether it is coming or going on the subject of vitamin D and a recent very poor article of theirs appears to be them sitting on the fence, just in case the advice changes in future.

According to this link (with my interpretations of their waffle in square brackets) :

bbc.co.uk/news/health-52371688

A review of research by NICE suggests there is no evidence to support taking vitamin D supplements to specifically prevent or treat coronavirus. [Don't bother taking vitamin D for Covid-19]

But experts think that it may have some broader health benefits during the pandemic to keep people as nutritionally fit as possible. [But maybe you should take it anyway]

Some researchers have suggested that vitamin D deficiency might be linked with poorer outcomes if someone catches coronavirus. But other underlying risk factors, such as heart disease, are common in these patients too, making it hard to draw conclusions. [If you do take it you might do better if you get Covid-19]

Further down the BBC article it mentions vitamin D2 comes from plants. And yet there are plenty of links online suggesting that vitamin D2 is not good at raising vitamin D levels, vitamin D3 is much better - so why mention vitamin D2?

Do a search for "vitamin D2 vs vitamin D3".

This link suggests that a vegan form of vitamin D3 is available from lichen :

betteryou.com/health-hub/vi...

This link from drugs.com disagrees with the BBC article :

drugs.com/news/low-vitamin-...

Low Vitamin D Levels Tied to Higher Odds for Severe COVID

FRIDAY, Sept. 25, 2020 -- Low blood levels of vitamin D might heighten people's odds for severe or even fatal COVID-19, new research shows.

Taking in a healthy level of vitamin D may therefore "reduce the complications, including the cytokine storm [release of too many proteins into the blood too quickly] and ultimately death from COVID-19," said study author Dr. Michael Holick. He's a professor of medicine, physiology, biophysics and molecular medicine at Boston University School of Medicine.

...

"Several studies have brought to light that patients with vitamin D deficiency have a worse outcome in COVID-19," said pulmonologist and internist Dr. Len Horovitz, of Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. "This is not surprising since vitamin D seems to have a beneficial effect on the immune system and wound healing."

I think the BBC article I linked to is cowardly and unhelpful!

shaws
shawsAdministrator

I remember a time when all children were prescribed 'cod liver oil' and concentrated orange juice.

We got radio malt as well (no idea what that actually was) - thick brown sticky goop from a jar - you got a dessert spoon every morning from school nurse

shaws
shawsAdministrator in reply to Angel_of_the_North

You're right. Malt was also a 'like it or not' product.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Angel_of_the_North

From Wikipedia:

Radio Malt was an early to mid-20th century brand of malt extract preparation that followed the Minadex trend. Produced by British Drug Houses, it contained vitamin A, aneurine hydrochloride, riboflavin, and calciferol. The contents were sickly sweet, with a consistency between molasses and treacle. It is much loved by George Molesworth ("Molesworth 2"), brother of the classic schoolboy character Nigel Molesworth.

Radio Malt was being sold in the UK by the mid-1920s and was studied at this time as a treatment for rickets. In India it was trademarked in 1942.

A favourite of film producer and politician David Puttnam, Radio Malt was often used in English boarding schools in an attempt to change skinny young girls into prettier roundness[8] and given to post-World War II children to give them more bulk.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio...

Yes, only the skinnies got radio malt. We had something called Minadex as well - green medicine - yuk! Plus mist. expect. if you had a cough - no idea what that was either

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to helvella

Can’t have malt if you’re gluten free or is that just barley malt not Radio Malt?

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to TSH110

The answer appears to be "it depends"!

There are malts which claim to be gluten-free (and I have no reason to doubt them):

vikingmalt.com/2018/05/glut...

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to helvella

I started going down memory lane and thinking of my dad telling me about having goose grease rubbed on his chest with brown paper or perhaps it was newspaper put over it as a boy in the winter - he seemed highly amused by it . I wondered if it actually had any benefits. No one seems to know what vitamin d content it has but there are claims it has some (unsubstantiated ) but it does have selenium and zinc and a lot of fats that are good for the heart so perhaps the winter ritual was not quite as daft as it sounds. Bad news for geese tho.

shaws
shawsAdministrator in reply to TSH110

You stated:-

having goose grease rubbed on his chest with brown paper or perhaps it was newspaper put over it as a boy in the winter - he seemed highly amused by it . I wondered if it actually had any benefits. "

I believe the grease would keep the newspaper in place and act as insulation and kept his chest warm in winter.

Excerpt:

"To start that warming process, first move into shelter. If there is nowhere to go indoors, at least move the person out of the wind, since wind can speed up hypothermia. Remove any wet clothing and replace them with dry blankets or even newspaper.

adventure.howstuffworks.com...

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to shaws

Yes I think there was an element of keeping warm with it. I presume it was renewed once a week after the tin bath by the fire 😊 my mum said everyone smelled a bit back then then but it was just part of life

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to TSH110

If you really want to know more - this paper, from Ulster, records quite a number of old "remedies", etc.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

This is absolutely NOT an endorsement or recommendation for any of them!

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to helvella

Sounds like my sort of read 😁 ta

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to helvella

It was really great. I was particularly bemused by the use of gooseberry thorns to get rid of styes - sounds simply awful, and sails and slugs for warts but the poor devils are stabbed to death to boot. I am sure I heard some recent thing on radio 4 about their slime that is bubbly being useful for something medicinal...seems it’s able to turn old wrinkles skin into babies bottom smooth! The Greeks used it and Chilean snail farmers for the French market noticed they made their hands smooth and soft and it started to be used for skin treatments.

No one had even heard of gluten free back in the 1950s and 60s. We were fed crusts of bread covered in marg and sugar for tea. We were also told to eat the fat on the meat - so some good, some bad.

Melted lard on mashed potatoes 😋

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to shaws

I mentioned above I remember loving halibut oil capsules I think I took them in my late teens - I thought them quite delightful 😊

Marymary7
Marymary7 in reply to shaws

And Rose hip syrup, mmmm! True, all of these a lovely memory from being very young and enjoying it all from my mum.

Partner20
Partner20 in reply to Marymary7

Rosehip syrup and Virol for me!

tattybogle
tattybogle in reply to Partner20

Mmm, i used to pinch extra spoonfull's of Virol when no one was looking.I 've just discovered the same thing still exists in the local health food shop ;) but it's not called virol anymore.

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to tattybogle

What was/is virol?

tattybogle
tattybogle in reply to TSH110

stmargarets.london/archives...

malt extract plus possibly some other things, thin excuse to use by product from brewing industry to fatten up children, tasted mostly nice and sweet and fruity , but a bit 'fishy' afterwards.

We got it every day in the winter, and if we we poorly enough to stay off school we got a bottle of lucozade with the yellow celophane wrapper ( i seen to remember my dad telling us that lucozade was originally a by product from making batteries , but that could be bumkum , cos my dad also thought that rubbing 2 sugar lumps together over your grazed knee would help it get better, or maybe that was just to distract us from yelling )

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to tattybogle

I must not be quite old enough for those delights! We had little bottles of milk and a nap in the afternoon at my nursery but I could never sleep and used to pretend I was snoozing! Some kids really needed it. The nursery nurse had a sweet miniature dachshund called Maximilian who you could go and stroke in his basket. I adored him - I doubt they’d allow it now 😖 My mum always said lucozade gave you diabetes and never to touch it cos it was very dodgy stuff. I have never really liked fizzy drinks much and never drink them. I still do as my mother told me ☺️

tattybogle
tattybogle in reply to TSH110

Maybe that's where i've been going wrong all these years .... i never did what my mum told me

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to tattybogle

That was a cracking read Ta. Eythymol was another mother fave!

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to Marymary7

I always mean to make some rosehip syrup - my mum did but never showed me how. It’s supposed to have very high levels of vit c

Well, that's not going to be enough to make any difference and will no doubt be some cheap tablet full of fillers. But i suppose it's a start

That’s what I was thinking!!!

Starting in January ??? I have always had the impression that VitD levels take time to improve - even on a hefty dose. Surely this is bolting the stable door when the horse has gone .... or is it better late than never ?

Mostew
Mostew in reply to Marz

This is a general theme lately!!!

This is a general theme lately!!!

The dose they are going to be giving to these people in care homes seems small. Am I right that it’s unlikely to make much difference or is it better than nothing.

Marz
Marz in reply to Marymary7

We have to hope it's better than nothing .... as we say here best to test first ! Dosage is linked to the test result and taken with the fattiest meal as it is fat soluble .... how will it be taken I wonder ? - along with the many other pills and potions ?

We used to have a very large spoonful of cod liver oil every day as Children. I remember it was very thick and didn't taste very nice.

Question is should we be taking cod liver oil now?

If yes, the similar thick type in a jar or capsules.

A friend had 'Potters cod liver oil with fish oil', however, it was a 'product recall' as apparently it contained mould - yuk!

With regards to Government giving 2.5 million Vitamin D, Yes, better than nothing But, 400 iu's a day would barely be sufficient for most me thinks

😐🤔

Marz
Marz in reply to Thyb

Difficult to find cod today with healthy livers - I have read !

I agree 400 iu's will not be enough - not even a maintenance dose for a healthy person - sigh !

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