Covid: UK government requests guidance on vitamin D use

[helvella]

As always, expect to see zero consideration for those who have any issues in taking vitamin D. Other than that, an interesting move. But we will have to wait for further information to really see what is happening.

Covid: UK government requests guidance on vitamin D use

Call for recommendations from health bodies on how nutrient may prevent and treat virus

Vitamin D has moved a step closer to being used as a potential way to prevent and treat coronavirus after Matt Hancock asked government health advisers to produce new guidelines on its use.

The health secretary told the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (Nice) and Public Health England to create guidelines for the use of the “sunshine” nutrient two weeks ago, before it was reported that the government was planning to give four months worth of vitamin D supplements to more than 2 million vulnerable and elderly people, following the lead of Scotland.

In a statement, a spokesperson for Nice, which sets NHS clinical guidelines, told the Guardian: “Nice and PHE received a formal request to produce recommendations on vitamin D for prevention and treatment of Covid from the secretary of state for health and social care, Matt Hancock, on October 29.”

The move comes after the government began considering giving vitamin D supplements to elderly people and those who are shielding as the UK enters winter. There is growing concern that many people may have poorer vitamin D levels than usual as a result of staying indoors for longer periods during the pandemic.

Rest of article available here:

theguardian.com/world/2020/...

[StitchFairy]

It's only taken them, what, about seven months to get around to this! Any idea what age is regarded as elderly?

[helvella in reply to StitchFairy]

What country do they mean?

In Scotland:

Free supply of vitamin D

Everyone on the shielding list is being offered a free supply of vitamin D for 4 months over winter.

In Wales:

Guidance on protecting people defined on medical grounds as extremely vulnerable from coronavirus (COVID-19) – previously known as ‘shielding’

AND

Women and children who qualify for the Healthy Start scheme can get free vitamins.

[shaws in reply to helvella]

It looks like we'll all have to move to Scotland so that we can get optional thyroid hormones sprescribed if levo isn't working, plus Vitamin D for covid.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

pmj.bmj.com/content/early/2...

Greater proportion of vitamin D-deficient individuals with SARS-CoV-2 infection turned SARS-CoV-2 RNA negative with a significant decrease in fibrinogen on high-dose cholecalciferol supplementation.

[helvella in reply to SlowDragon]

Which is great if a) You know and are given or able to buy it; b) Can tolerate it!

[RedApple in reply to helvella]

I guess those of us that cannot take D supplements will just have to go into total hibernation for the winter 😢

[Needanswersnw in reply to RedApple]

I could not tolerate them and I have been able to tolerate the shots ordered from vitastir on line. I do then mmm on myself ans feel soooo much better

[Timetraveler67 in reply to Needanswersnw]

Please can you tell me what side effects from D you had as maybe I can’t tolerate them either as I feel ill every day, I didn’t realise some people can’t take them I wonder if I should stop taking them. Thank you in advance for reply

[JanieL]

Sense at last... 😉!!

[Sybilla14]

Interesting development as I’ve heard this had been studied in relation to covid but wonder what dose they will suggest!

Heard recently that a study in China identified that all patients who died of covid had selenium deficiency and those who didn’t die didn’t have this deficiency. This was a discussion between two US doctors who concluded that the poor nutritional status in the US would be the reason for so many deaths there.

[helvella in reply to Sybilla14]

The levels of selenium across the USA vary considerably. If a significant proportion of diet is relatively locally produced. we'd expect Covid deaths to correspond to selenium concentrations. However, long distance transportation messes that up for many.

Nonetheless, if a lot of food comes from high selenium areas, the mean might be not too bad!

Here is a map of selenium levels across the USA.

pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2017/5118...

And there is an association between higher selenium and higher blood pressure:

Serum Selenium Concentrations and Hypertension in the US Population

ahajournals.org/doi/full/10...

[jimh111]

NICE and PHE have had two weeks to come up with a recommendation and delivered nothing. The winter is coming and there's no reason why they couldn't have made a provisional recommendation after a couple of days.

We don't know for sure that vitamin D will protect but there's no harm recommending moderate supplementation now. PHE have been a disaster, 5,000 highly paid advisors who achieve nothing they even failed to prepare for an epidemic.

It shouldn't be up to ministers to ask about vitamin D or any other treatment, these highly paid advisors should be banging on the minister's door.

[userotc]

As I stated in the post from Marnie on this, I blame the WHO (the clue to their supposed role is in the title!). PHE, NICE etc are just puppets of a Government more worried about votes than health.

[Marz]

gov.uk/government/publicati...

The above link takes you to a letter sent out in 2012 by the then Chief Medical Officer - to all health workers - regarding VitD. Thanks to Spareribs who has this link on her Profile page - and where I go when I want to quote it - which over the years has been often !

It would appear the letters lay buried on desks of GP's along with other good information ... so there is no excuse ....

[AmandaK in reply to Marz]

Thanks Marz, I was looking for this.

NICE goes even further: cks.nice.org.uk/topics/vita...

'To prevent vitamin D deficiency:

All adults living in the UK should be advised to take a daily supplement containing 400 international units (10 micrograms) of vitamin D throughout the year, including in the winter months. '

This guidance was written several years ago, last revised in 2018.

I have been dumbfounded at the lack of action by the government given that they have known about this for nearly a decade. It was a few years ago during a routine appointment with a registrar, who was Canadian, that I first learned that NICE was advocating for everyone in the UK to be supplementing with Vit D. The registrar told me that the entire Canadian population supplemented and she said that it should be de rigueur for everyone in the northern hemisphere.

I duly did my research to find that indeed, NICE were overt in their guidance. BUT somehow, the advice didn't seem to be reaching GPs or patients.

There should have been a public health campaign - how many people would have had better outcomes, not just with Covid but with other illnesses, if such a campaign had taken place all those years ago?

It does make me v v cross that such a simple action that relatively speaking would have been inexpensive has resulted in far more expense, both financially and in terms of people's health and life chances.

[Sharoosz in reply to AmandaK]

I'm Canadian and that's the first I've heard that we all supplement with Vit. D. (Maybe they've been adding it to the water supply, flour or..., without telling us?) I agree, people should certainly supplement. My former endo told me to take 1000iu from May-October and 2000iu rest of the year. (Izabella Wentz suggests a higher dose.) I agree with Sybilla, 400iu is hardly going to do anything.

[helvella in reply to Sharoosz]

I think that milk is supplemented with vitamin D in Canada. Perhaps there is some poor wording or failure to understand - somewhere?

[Sharoosz in reply to helvella]

Maybe it still is but a lot of people, esp. adults don't drink milk nor will the VitD be in quantities that really make much difference (maybe keep one just over the deficiency line?)

[helvella in reply to Sharoosz]

Oh I agree! But looking for where the confusion set in, that seemed to be a possibility.

[Sybilla14 in reply to Marz]

So they’re recommending 400iu daily to reverse the deficiency. I take 4800iu every day and my blood level barely increases on my annual tests so it’s only slightly more than a maintenance dose. Don’t think 400iu would do much for me, possibly also for other people.

[Marz in reply to Sybilla14]

Discussed here often. The dose prescribed is often too low and doomed to fail. Dosing should be based on results ....

grassrootshealth.net

vitamindcouncil.org

There is also a Prevention Chart in the first link.

[userotc in reply to Sybilla14]

400 was set to stop ricketts - remember those? We have public advice for life 100 years ago not for 2020! For up to date guidance, seek natural practitioners.

[Sybilla14 in reply to userotc]

Indeed. Or do your own research. I’d be very unwell if I hadn’t taken things in my own hands in terms of Hashi diagnosis, treatment and overall nutritional status and health😀

[Marymary7 in reply to Sybilla14]

My partner cod liver oil supplements say it contains 5 ug with an upside down h rather than a u. What does that translate to...nothing? It says 100% NRV.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Marymary7]

Marymary7

5ug = 5mcg = 200iu

Not even a child's maintenance dose I imagine.

Be careful with cod liver oil, it has a lot of Vit A compared to usually a minimal amount of Vit D, and too much Vit A, like Vit D, can lead to toxicity.

[Marymary7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you for that Susie. I will pass that on . I take a proper supplement personally, one recommended on here by you lovely people.😎

[Sybilla14 in reply to Marymary7]

5 micro grams would be 200iu, ie a negligible dose. I believe the ‘recommended’ daily dose tends to be 800iu but this itself is extremely low, given recent research. Have a look at Marz’s links above they’re excellent sources.

[helvella in reply to Marymary7]

You might find this document of interest as it explains what you have reported there:

dropbox.com/s/sgv815w8hkexl...

[HashiFedUp]

My consultant started lobbying in March for this. Theres no money for big pharma so non ones interested.

Thyroid patients should take vit D - don’t wait for the Government to get round to it!

[HJC321 in reply to HashiFedUp]

Why should Thyroid pets take Vitamin D please? I think I may have missed it 🙄

[waveylines]

Shocking really when they use it in hosptial in intensive care to help fight infections.......so makes sense to ensure you are optimally treated! Dr John Campbell was also talking about zinc also showing benifit in that those with higher levels of zinc were less affected by covid19 -still got it but less people had it severely more had it mildly. Amongst the other measures these are simple things we can do to help ourselves......youd think the government would support that....lol.

[Thyb]

I read this article. I think majority on this Site try and optimise vitamins and minerals for thyroid Health.

It makes sense to take vitamins and minerals if you know you are deficient or insufficient and want to 'keep on top of ones Health'.

[Ellie-Louise]

What would be the highest dose of D3 you could safely take daily do you think please?

Asking because I have seen 10,000iu capsules obtainable online.

[Thyb in reply to Ellie-Louise]

I think it would depend on your VitD blood test results as to how much you would need. Do you have VitD blood test results?

10,000 daily is extremely high unless you are very deficient?

Hard to say without knowing your blood results?

You would need to take co factor VitK2-MK7 if taking vitamin D to ensure your bones get the vit D instead of 'hanging about in your arteries/tissues'

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Ellie-Louise]

Ellie-Louise

10,000iu might be fine for a short while if you test severely deficient. After that I would think a safe level would be 5,000iu - that is my maintenance dose.

I tested severely deficient with a level of 15nmol/L so after reaching the recommended level I have found by trial and error that 5,000iu keeps my level stable.

Many people do well enough with a maintenance dose of 1,000-2,000iu but it's very important to test your level first then your dose is based on the result and what is needed to reach the recommended level, and when supplementing it's essential to test twice a year to keep within the recommended range.

Important cofactors are Vit K2-MK7 (as Thyb has mentioned) but also magnesium as this helps the body convert D3 into it's usable form.

[Ellie-Louise in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you.

My level in June was marked as replete, (other years they have said severely deficient).

71.0 (71-200)

I had been taking D3,K2 and magnesium lately but can’t remember how much and finished it. It was the spray version.

I’m not hot on remembering to take things regularly either. My levo is the only one I don’t forget to take.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Ellie-Louise]

Ellie-Louise

My level in June was marked as replete

71.0 (71-200)

The replete (sufficient) range is quite wide and you have just scraped into the bottom of it. One point below and you'd be classed as insufficient or inadequate.

Presumably you were prescribed D3??

The trouble is that doctors are only obliged to get you within the range, doesn't matter even if it's scraping in at the bottom like yours is, as far as they are concerned it's within range but it's nowhere near optimal or the level recommended by the Vit D Council (125nmol/L) or the Vit D Society and Grassroots Health (100-150nmol/L).

It would be in your best interest to continue with your own supplement until you are within the recommended range and then find your maintenance dose to keep it there, particularly as there is evidence now that a good level of Vit D is helpful in the fight against Covid.

With your current level I would be taking 3,000iu D3 daily, 90-100mcg Vit K2-MK7 daily, plus the form of magnesium best suited to you. Once you've reached the recommended level then find your maintenance dose by trial and error then retest twice a year to keep it there.

If you can remember to take your Levo then you need to find a way to remember to take the important supplements which will keep your nutrient levels optimal, it's all part and parcel of doing our best to be well with hypothyroidism. I found a spreadsheet helpful to start with, I listed what I needed to take and when then ticked them off once I'd taken them. Keep this on your kitchen worktop where you are bound to see it. I keep my supplements in a box on my kitchen worktop now and I know when I need to take which one.

[Ellie-Louise in reply to SeasideSusie]

No I wasn’t prescribed anything. Nothing was said, I got my results online.

I’ll do what you suggested, my next blood test is due around February as far as I know. I have no recollection of why it was late this year because I try to do that, eyes and teeth all around my birthday. Makes it easier to sort everything out at the same time. 😊

[Sybilla14 in reply to Ellie-Louise]

10,000iu is the highest daily dose tested,which did not cause toxicity. I can’t remember how long it was taken for the test but it certainly would be too high to take long term. There have also been studies, which showed that daily supplementation is better than higher doses less frequently (which I guess 10,000 could be used for) so it would be better to take a lower dose daily. The Vitamin D council website is a great source of information.

[Partner20]

Yes, fine unless you are unable to tolerate prescribed Vit.D, as you say, helvella, in which case, if it is actually issued to us, it will go to waste. My partner can only tolerate D3 in a gel capsule with as few additives as possible, and even then, only in a low dosage. His prescribed supplements made him rather unwell. We are, as I am always saying, all different.

[Elston]

Sorry i don't understand what it is you are saying about vit D ?

Are you saying it is good or not?

Excuse my ignorance please ..

[helvella in reply to Elston]

If you need it, and can tolerate it, it is good. Unfortunately, some people simply can't tolerate vitamin D supplementation. I hope someone recognises that issue and includes extra information for them.

The government has heard that higher levels of vitamin D might help people overcome Covid-19 and is asking NICE to establish guidelines for things like appropriate doses, blood levels, dosing regimes, etc.

[Elston in reply to helvella]

Ha ok thankyou..

I understand now...

If vit d is naturally present in your body ? Why would someone have a problem taking? ..is vit d not good to be taken with some / other medication?..

[helvella in reply to Elston]

If we knew, that would help enormously! But some people even suffer from vitamin D they create themselves from sun exposure.

With everything we take, dose is important. Some might manage to tolerate truly tiny amounts (e.g. 2 micrograms (80 units) a day). But any "standard" amount - say, 400 units a day - is too much for these people who suffer.

[Elston in reply to helvella]

Wow poor people I never knew that...

I have Adrenal insufficiency so I'm not able to control my temperature so for the last 2yrs iv stayed out of the sun so to keep comfortable? But im forever deficient in vit d because I am AI ...thanks for your reply.