Hi
I just got off the phone with my GP ,I had been unwell for a couple of months mainly breathing problems and fatigue, my GP told me my T3 is 8.3 ( 2,4-4.2 range)to reduce my dose of T3 from 60 micro grams (20 x 3 a day) to 50 micro grams and a referral to the respiratory clinic, He also said my T4 was unreadable. As I only take T3 I would expect my T4 to be low, is this correct.Also could this explain my breathing problems?
Regards
Frank
Thanks for your reply.
I have had breathing problems for years (breathlessness) and heath intolerance. every year I catch a cold and it goes straight to my chest, usually goes in 3 or 4 weeks, this year I cough a cold from my son ( 9 weeks ago approx)and I still have phlegm in my lungs. I didnt think to ask about FT3. my heart rate goes up on exertion ( climbing stairs )
Did you allow a 24 hour gap between your last dose of T3 and the test? If not the results could be skewed.
T3 is more potent than T4 and 20mcg of T3 is approx equal to around 85mcg of levothyroxine.
I will also state I'm not medically qualified but take 25mcg of T3 and have no clinical symptoms.
I understand coughs cause my chest infections but coupled with my breathlessness ,it is a real problem every year, I will reduce my dose from today,Thanks for your help!!!
Would agree with Scrumbler, see how a reduced dose goes. Also, if it hasn't been tested check out your iron (ferritin) levels, low iron reduces oxygen in the blood.
Hey Frank, as Scrumbler says, fatigue and breathlessness can be overmedication symptoms. I am very fatigued when overdosed, more than on being hypo.
See how it goes with the dose reduction. Ft4 would be undetectable if you take t3 only.
Breathlessness can be due to low iron levels
When were vitamin levels last tested?
Do you have Hashimoto’s?
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies
Ask GP to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin, iron and B12 levels
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .
If/when also on T3, make sure to take last third or half of daily dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test
Is this how you do your tests?
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins
List of private testing options
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin
medichecks.com/products/thy...
Medichecks often have special offers, if order on Thursdays
Thriva Thyroid plus vitamins
Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes vitamins
Can see you recently had antibiotics and steroids both can affect how we absorb or utilise thyroid hormones
Me too! I always take t3 8-12 hours prior to blood draw but I thought timings for NDT were same as for t3. Levo to be taken 24 hours prior to test.
Just the breathlessness on exertion (hills and stairs) heat intolerance when the seasons change, I have not had my vitamins or iron levels tested and I took my T3 5 hours before the blood was taken.
It is 8-12 hours for T3 and NDT, 24 hours for Levo, although Shaws has always done hers 24 hours for T3 as far as I know.
Mickeydooley
Yeah I also do 24 hrs on t3, works for me x
I do 24 hours as well and suits me. Jo xx
Yeah, I would described an overdosed feeling as wired and tired. Fatigue is so overwhelming that you cannot even lift your arms to brush your hair
No it doesn't spoil all the fun. (normal service is resumed).
Do you have Hashi's? That rise in FT3 might not have anything to do with your dose.
Hi
How would I know if I have Hashi'?
With an antibody test: TPO antibodies.
SeasideSusie is right. I've always tested 24 hours later as I did for T4 and now for T3.
Dr John Lowe 's patients only had one blood test and that was for the initial diagnosis but thereafter all his concentration was upon the relief of patients' clinical symptoms which was achieved by small increments (either of T3 - which was taken by his Thyroid Hormone Resistant Patients or NDT for other patients).
He stated that levothyroxine and blood tests were only introduced to make money to enhance Big Pharma's profits.
Before that all concentration was for Relief Of Symptoms (before levo was introduced) and all doctors treated 'symptoms' and not blood test resultswhich were not invented before Levo was introduced. He stated that both levo and blood tests were good for profiting from additionals given to try and relieve symptoms.
Dr Skinner and Dr Peatfield were also of the same era and the last to be trained knowing all clinical symptoms and diagnosing upon them alone. Patients were given a trial of NDT and small increases until they felt well again, and I think many members on this forum wouldn't mind if they got a trial of this, despite an Association making False Statements about this to get it withdrawn altogether, as they did about T3 although T3 was due to cost (a wonderful opportunity that arose).
If anyone wants to read an awful journey of a woman finally being sent to Dr Peatfield, read 'Tears Behind Closed Doors' and I think today there will still be many 'tears behind closed doors' due to how people are now diagnosed/prescribed.
How wonderful to be treated in the old fashioned way: concentrating on symptoms and not on ‘reliance on testing’.
I always feel sick to my stomach every time I have to explain symptoms, I was not believed by GP after GP for years and I was made to believe it was all in my head and I was a time waster, I was overjoyed when I found a lump on my thyroid and so relieved my T3 was 8.3
It suits Big Pharma if we get 'extras' to try to control our miserable symptoms. This increases their profits.
If we have a baby to care for, we are very aware if they are unwell and we go by the symptoms they have.
I agree, profits before people.
They made me the man I am, a quivering wreck , you gotta laugh
Offered endless antidepressants, statins, PPIs, BP tablets, counselling, supplements, vitamin infusions etc. Big pharma is well and thriving!
Doctors are not treating us - the patient - by ignoring (they don't know any) our clinial symptoms. These used to be the priority before blood tests were introduced and we were given gradual increments of NDT until symptoms resolved. (NDT is natural dessicated thyroid hormones, made from animals' thyroid glands and contains all of the hormones a healthy gland would provide).
Millions do fine on T4 only (levothyroxine) but others - as in this forum - don't.
Does that not give a false low t3 reading on tests? Asking because I’m going to do a medichecks test on Monday after having increased my dose of Levo without the approval of my endo. He refused to increase my dose because TSH is suppressed but wrote to my gp saying I didn’t appear to be over replaced and my hands were ‘icy’. I wanted to do the test to check that my t4 and t3 levels aren’t over range and hopefully to convince him to ask the gp to prescribe more Levo.
Does that not give a false low t3 reading on tests? Asking because I’m going to do a medichecks test on Monday after having increased my dose of Levo without the approval of my endo. He refused to increase my dose because TSH is suppressed but wrote to my gp saying I didn’t appear to be over replaced and my hands were ‘icy’. I wanted to do the test to check that my t4 and t3 levels aren’t over range and hopefully to convince him to ask the gp to prescribe more Levo.
As I treat myself, it is down to how I 'feel' and I feel well with no clinical symptoms. That's why many on this forum now treat themselves.
The 'professionals' seem to take more notice of blood test results than what the patient tells them, especially if we still have symptoms.
Considering that the professionals seem to only look at a TSH result ' thyroid stimulating hormone' this is from the pituitary gland - not thyroid gland so 'and I'm not medically qualified' the emphasis should always be upon how the patient is 'feeling' and adjustments made to relieve them - all of them. Most professionals seem to think the aim is 'somewhere' in a range whilst ignoring symptoms.
I would think that 'icy hands' is a symptom of not being on an optimum dose and also keep in mind that I'm not medically qualified.
We need more doctors/specialists like the following and its no wonder he cannot take on any more patients (in the USA). Our doctors who were trained years ago and were taught to diagnose on symptoms alone, and we were given a trial of NDT (this contains all of the hormones a healthy gland would provide.
Unfortunately 'misinformation' was stated by a professional body in the UK in order to get this withdrawn from the NHS just as they've done with T3. (T3 due to extortionate price rise). This is from an expert in the USA and its no wonder he cannot take on more patients:-
"Dear Thyroid Patients: If you have thyroid gland failure--primary hypothyroidism--your doctor is giving you a dose of levothyroxine that normalizes your thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) level. Abundant research shows that this practice usually does not restore euthyroidism--sufficient T3 effect in all tissues of the body. It fails particularly badly in persons who have had their thyroid gland removed. Unfortunately, the medical profession has clung to the misleading TSH test since the some physicians decided to do so in the 1970s. Doctors are taught that hypothyroidism is a high TSH--when it is, in fact, the state of inadequate T3-effect in some or all tissues. They are taught wrong. TSH not a thyroid hormone and is not an appropriate guide for either the diagnosis or treatment of hypothyroidism. The hypothalamic-pituitary secretion of TSH did not evolve to tell physicians what dose of inactive levothyroxine a person should swallow every day. A low or suppressed TSH on replacement therapy is not the same thing as a low TSH in primary hyperthyroidism. IF you continue to suffer from the symptoms of hypothyroidism, you have the right to demand that your physician give you more effective T4/T3 (inactive/active) thyroid replacement therapy. Your physician can either add sufficient T3 (10 to 20mcgs) to your T4 dose, or lower your T4 dose while adding the T3. The most convenient form of T4/T3 therapy, with a 4:1 ratio, is natural desiccated thyroid (NDT-- Armour, NP Thyroid, Nature-Throid). If you have persistent symptoms, ask your physician change you to NDT and adjust the dose to keep the TSH at the bottom of its range. The physician cannot object. This may be sufficient treatment, but IF you continue to have persisting hypothyroid symptoms, and no hyperthyroid symptoms, ask your physician to increase the dose to see if your symptoms will improve, even if the TSH becomes low or suppressed. You can prove to your physician that you're not hyperthyroid by the facts that you have no symptoms of hyperthyroidism and your free T4 and free T3 levels are normal in the morning, prior to your daily dose. They may even be below the middle of their ranges. Your free T3 will be high for several hours after your morning T4/T3 dose, but this is normal with this therapy and produces no problems.
You should insist that testing be done prior to your daily dose, as recommended by professional guidelines. If you have central hypothyroidism, the TSH will necessarily be low or completely suppressed on T4/T3 therapy. In all cases, your physician must treat you according to your signs and symptoms first, and the free T4 and free T3 levels second.
‘The 'professionals' seem to take more notice of blood test results than what the patient tells them, especially if we still have symptoms.’
This is the situation I’m in at the moment. Following advice I received here I increased my dose slightly without consulting my endo, and am preparing to do a medichecks test tomorrow purely to monitor the numbers (and vitamin levels) and to ensure that when I go back to see him that I’m prepared. I’m seriously considering self medication but concerned about the switch from T4/t3 and also supply issues. I feel so frustrated at the treatment I’ve had by so-called experts. Thanks for your advice. Always appreciated.
Take more notice of your clinical symptoms and by small 'tweeks' every couple of weeks you might find that you reach a plateau in which you are symptom-free and feel well again.
Dr John Lowe (scientist/doctor and expert on the use of T3 - now deceased only too one blood test for the initial diagnosis and thereafter patient took small increments every few weeks concentrating on their symptoms until thety felt well again.
I will give you a link which may be helpful for you. - read Q&A etc
Thanks for this information. Very informative.
I have a cyst on my thyroid
Maybe she needs a little T4 meds.
Sorry to intrude just out of interest I had FT3 of 9 some years ago and felt perfectly well but GP insisted on lowering Levo to 25mcg (from 50) and i have been on that ever since. However i am now trialling NDT without gp's knowledge and am still at trial and error bit!
The following may be helpful and it is by a doctor who was also an Adviser to TUK before his accidental death. He only took one single blood test for the initial diagnosis and thereafter all his concentration was on small increases of either NDT or T3 until the patients' symptom were resolved.
Sorry for the question but just wanted to clarify as I’m currently adjusting the time of my meds today for a medichecks test tomorrow. My endo appointment was postponed and as I increased my dose without his knowledge I want to keep an eye on things and be prepared for when I eventually get back to see him. I’m at his mercy at the moment and seriously considering stopping attending the endo clinic and doing things on my own. Thanks for your reply.
Thanks for kind and detailed reply. I started NDT slowly a few months age and have built up to 1 grain daily, but I got a fright when I had Blue Horizon test (gold) and it showed a Tg of516 (range <115) I was all set to abandon NDT when an ambassador of TUK told me t was nothing to do with NDT but my own body's response, so I am moving on to the next step and a quarter grains and again increasing slowly as I feel I need Good of you to offer luck on my journey, good luck to you too whatever you are doing!
P.S. Ambassador's name Seaside Susie Had a brain fog moment when I was about to type in!!!
Whole body transplant? What a good idea....Think I need one too (Ha-Ha)
Thanks Scrumbler. I wanted to keep my gp and endo onside too but getting so frustrated at having to fight my corner. Endo won’t increase my dose due to suppressed TSH so I decided after asking for advice here to increase it very slightly. Now I have a problem because I’m taking more than I’m prescribed and will have to go cap in hand to the endo/gp again as I’m running out of levo. Hence the medichecks test tomorrow. I want to know how my levels have changed and if everything looks ok I had intended to email the endo and fess up and ask if he can request more levo for me from the gp. I have more chance of convincing the endo than my doctor who wasn’t pleased that I asked for a referral and then got a letter from the endo to say that I was a very knowledgeable patient and recommending a dose increase and trial of t3. The gp, I’m convinced, was sure I would be turned away by the endo. For over 30 years he has been telling me my results were normal and my symptoms were not due to problems with thyroid or medication. I know this story is not unusual!
Good morning
I reduced from 60 micro grams to 50 micro grams from last Friday, Saturday started getting a headache and I felt absolutely dreadful yesterday, so I went back to 60 micro grams, I still feel a bit sick today, I do not think it will be easy reducing my dose.
Thanks for all the replies
Frank
Absorbtion of T3 and T4
Difference between Free T3 and T3?
