Any light through the tunnel of T3?

[fedup]

Anyone able to say they found a big improvement when taking T3 with T4? What differences did you notice?

Or, indeed, has anyone suffered unwanted side effects from combining T3 with T4?

[waveylines]

This is difficult one to comment on. I found levothyroxine & liothyronine gave me more energy, focus. However for me ndt gave me the greatest most natural response......everyone is different....

[Hookie01]

Adding T3 made a big difference to me, I'm less tired and my mind is sharper. I want to try Armour as levo makes bloat but they are putting up a fight to let me get it!!

[lisabax]

Yes, the brain fog went. On levo alone I thought I had early onset dementia. Other improvements too, but that was the most noticeable

[ThyroQueen]

So much!!!!! Literally life-saving changes. On levo alone I gain weight at the rate of ten pounds a month, have indescribable (particularly while I'm having it brain fog, and am bed-bound unless on a VERY high dose. With enough T3 I feel....almost normal. I'm self-medicating following changes made on the advice of this board - low and slow- my prescription is for 20 T3 but I take 25 to 30, daily. Such a microscopic amount, to make such a difference! I take my T3 and T4 together, all at once, in the morning well before breakfast.

[thyroidnodules in reply to ThyroQueen]

i also gained lots of weight on levo alone and so started to self medicate which resolved the weight issue. my endo wants to now put me on levo and add T3 and have agreed but am worried about the weight issue. Did your weight settle when you added T3 to your levo?

[ThyroQueen in reply to thyroidnodules]

It seems I can take a certain amount of levo, as long as I take plenty of t3, and I have seen other members say this as well. I take 75, and am ok.

[GKeith in reply to ThyroQueen]

25 to 30 mcg? T3 is 4 times as strong as T4, so 30 mcg of T3 equals 120 mcg's of T4. T3 also has a shelf-life of 12 hours so it wears off quickly whereas T4 can take weeks to clear your system, depending on how long you've been taking it.

[gabkad in reply to GKeith]

I don't think they can be compared seeing as how T4 is non active until it is metabolized

to T3 or at least even what the body removes an iodine atom and produces triiodothyronine.

If thyroxine is metabolized well, then comparisons can be made. But oftentimes the

reason why people are taking T3 is because they are slow metabolizers of thyroxine.

T4 is not metabolically active and really cannot be compared to T3.

I was on Cytomel, varying doses along with Synthroid. My endo reduced the Synthroid

by whatever amount (can't remember now because it's been years) is recommended

in order to add the Cytomel. I went demonstrably hypo and it was really obvious even

to the endo which is miraculous. Then when the doses were re-arranged so that fT3 was

where it ought to be should I be 'normal' and not a hypo, my blood sugar went crazy.

It would shoot up after eating even a medium small potato (18) and crash two hours later

(3.4). This was dose related. When it would really crash I'd have to eat or was losing my

vision (I don't know how low it got that time because I wasn't home but initially it felt

as though I was looking at the world from the inside of the back of my skull). I HAD to

eat. My ears were ringing.

My ears started ringing when I was taking 3/4 of a 25 mcg Cytomel per day. They still

ring. Not full out cicadas in my head like they did with the Cytomel. Mostly I can ignore

it.

So yeah, I had side effects. I'm taking 150 mcg Synthroid now. The lab requisition

for July has fT3 on it as well as TSH, and fT4. Will find out how it's going. Generally

my fT3 has not been 'stellar'. (Endo's expression.) It's been like that since my mid 20s. I think boosting it with Cytomel was not something my body could cope with. It totally

took things out of homeostasis.

There is information available about how T3 can cause a diabetic situation.

I think it's on Tired Thyroid blog. tiredthyroid.com/insulin-re...

To me it seemed that the pancreas did not produce insulin on an 'on time' basis and then later when my blood sugar spiked, it would over produce. Something was wrong with

the production of signalling molecules from the stomach and the beta cells were reliant only on the blood glucose and not on the messaging molecules that tell the beta cells 'glucose is coming. Produce insulin.' These days my blood sugar is totally fine and not fluctuating all over the place.

I wonder if people who need high doses of T3 have absorption problems.

[McPammy]

For me T3 I believe saved my life. I had been on T4 Levo for many years, however, I had lots of issues which led to really poor health that I could barely walk, talk, stand up and put on 2st in a year. I was diagnosed finally privately through blood tests and DI02 gene positive test also as a very poor converter of T4 to T3. As soon as I started T3 it was nothing short of a miracle for me. I couldn’t walk 10 steps. Now I go the gym 3/4 times a week and pretty much normal and enjoying life. I’ve also lost 2.5st since starting T3 and intend on losing another stone as in T4 alone I couldn’t control my weight from increasing. I know it’s not all about weight but I’ve struggled for two decades trying to keep my weight down and didn’t realise I needed T3 which has been a miracle for me. It’ll be fantastic to walk into a shop and buy a new outfit this spring and I’m hoping I’ll look in the mirror, as for years I couldn’t bare to look at myself.

[crimple]

I had been on T4 only for 9 years and had little energy and still some brain fog and lots of other issues. I started with Greek T3 and took it very slowly, 6.25mcgm for 12 months! then 12.5 for 3 months then 15 then 20. I had to cut back to 15mcgm, but brain fog has definitely gone, dry skin, constipation, dry eyes, overheating at night, all gone, better sleep patterns and tinnitus has improved. I have tried Thybon Henning which seemed OK until I started recently on Sigma Pharma (US and very expensive) due to intolerances. I think SM is best

[Beverleyb]

When I started taking t3 with thyroxine it was as a light had been turned on. It really has changed my life . I spent 17 years with no life , so many problems ,constantly tired never going out ,depressed anxiety. I felt so old as I ached everywhere.

I joined Thyroid UK 7 years ago , it was the best thing I ever did, I had my life back with the help of admin and members.

[Summer64]

Life changing. Not so tired, bran fog and memory improved and even my muscle weakness improved.

[fuchsia-pink]

After a few years on T3 and T4 together, I was put on just T4 four weeks ago. After two weeks, I had: put on 2 kg; starting to get brain fog; puffy face; hair not glossy [see previous post]. Happily my GP restored the previous T3 prescription and two weeks later, all these symptoms have now reversed.

So yes: big changes and very quickly!

[vocalEK in reply to fuchsia-pink]

Let's hope your GP was paying attention to the results. Hopefully when some other patient has these problems, he will be willing to correct them.

[Fido18]

Life changing for me too. Before T3 was on 275 Levothyroxine daily. I weighed almost 19 stone, in bed 4 days a week, was tested for dementia and lots of other symptoms. GP decided to send me for second opinion and light bulb moment!!

Started on T3 and T4 combined in Nov 2018, now weight is 13st 6ozs, not so much brain fog and can’t remember last time I had to stay in bed all day. If you have the chance to try it then give it a go.

[Cranio]

I have had life changing benefits, the difference was incredible and noticeable within 2 days. More energy, focused, less pain, clarity and weight loss. I didn’t have adverse effects mixing the two, I have regular blood tests and have dropped the levothyroxine dose down. I am so grateful to have been prescribed t3. Hope this helps 😊

[GKeith]

My point was that I believe that although everyone is different and no two people may take exactly the same dose, that a general "rule, " for me anyway, is that T4 and T3 should be about a 4 to 1 difference. For example I take 100 mcg of T4 and 25 mcg of T3. I took 88mcg of T4-alone for 28-years with under-active thyroid symptoms for most of that time. No doctor, endo or anyone else ever even checked it, much less upped the dose. I had cold hands and feet, extremely low temperatures, itchy skin and told these doctors and specialists and not one of them ever said a thing except: "your TSH shows you are FINE."

I believe now that because they never upped the T4 dose, I suffered for many years. I gained 30 pounds in 1990 and because I worked out daily, intensively, and was a professional boxer I knew something was wrong and they diagnosed me as hypothyroid and I was, as mentioned, put on 88 mcg's of T4 which took 30 pounds off within the first week or so and the doctors, then, as mentioned, never changed the dose. Now, after 28 odd years straight, over the last 18-months, I (finally) changed it myself and have noticed, in that time that most hypo- patients take about a 4-1 ratio. When I finally saw an endo who would even prescribe T3, in 2018, I told him I would not take anymore T4-alone but only T3. He lowered, (mistakenly I now think) to 50 mcg of T4 and 30 of T3 and then, when I complained, he raised the T4 to 75 mcg and lowered the T3 to 20mcg. That was 3 months ago and I immediately saw I felt better but after getting slightly constipated I went back to 30 mcg of T3 but then got diarrhea so lowered the T3 to 25. I then, on my own dose, raised the T4 to 100 mcg of T4 and left the T3 at 25, which I have been on for 60 days and feel close to optimal with temperatures 80-90% of the time between 97.5-98.2 when, for the past 5 or 6 years they've been as low as 92 degrees and no higher then 97. The reason I went to 100 mcg T4 is because that I now realize they never upped it themselves because they were ignorant as to the TSH's relevance to the reference range(s) and their mental capacities concerning thyroid hormones with relation to thyroid patients, as they dismiss them without any notice or ability to say why they think as they do. and why I could not possibly be prescribed any T3.

I believe, now, that had they just upped my dose on T4, I may have found an optimal range but, due to their complete ignorance, I suffered, as so many others also do. My range and estimates may be and probably are, different from yours but I believe that a dose equaling 50 mcg of T3, 50 mcg T3 alone for some people or, like myself, 100 mcg of T4 (which equals 25 mcg of T3 and 25 mcg of T3 or 200mcg of T4 which also equals 50 mcg's of T3 should be optimal for MOST people. Peace be upon us all.