Lest we forget

[Blot]

Big pharma could be watching. Best not to advertise any supplement sources in this open forum too freely. They have unnameable powers to close down access sites to protect their own financial interests. Hence liothyronine has gone up 2000% - yes l mean 2000% - in order to force gps and hospitals to refuse its use. While not forbidding it exactly they have successfully raised it to a prohihitive price range. Lobbying parliament through your MP might bring it to the attention of Fair Trading. It is not that expensive to manufacture. Out of europe might be a relief to many beleagued folk trying to find suitable meds from other countries without custom restraints.

[Hennerton]

I don’t quite follow your line of reasoning. I do not think they inflated the price of Liothyronine to stop it being prescribed. That does not make sense, or am I missing something. I think they realized we all wanted it and convinced the gullible NHS that exorbitant price hikes were necessary because of “difficulties in manufacturing”. Rubbish of course but greed took over and now they cannot back down and admit it actually costs pennies. In France it is a few euros. The problem started with our naive buyers in the NHS who somehow did not notice that suddenly they were paying a much higher price and continued to order without questioning. It is so easy to ignore inflated prices when one is spending someone else’s money.

[Cooper27 in reply to Hennerton]

Personally I don't think it was just the case that someone didn't notice the price hike, or that the NHS was persuaded T3 needed to be that price. I think someone's personal finances has probably got a rather nice bank balance out of the rice hike (either because they had a vested interest, or because of bribery issues). But that's just cynical little me.

[Hennerton in reply to Cooper27]

Very possible. It is a can of worms, as they say. I queried the price increase with my MP in 2013. He asked Earl Howe, House of Lords, for information, I duly received a letter from him, citing difficulty in the manufacturing process and also transport costs. Later I discovered that he had shares in pharmaceutical companies. There is so much we shall never know.

[Cooper27 in reply to Hennerton]

Yeah, politicians aren't much help. My MSP said the price hike is because research studies cost a lot of money, and they needed to cover the cost of researching it. Course that explains why it's still so cheap in other countries...

[Hennerton in reply to Cooper27]

Honestly, they dream it up. All the research on Liothyronine was done decades ago. Being a generic medicine surely means all the costs of research and introducing to the market have long ago been absorbed and “paid”.

[MissGrace in reply to Hennerton]

Yes - and of course according to the NHS they don’t like it because there hasn’t been enough research - so exactly what research is the high cost paying for? Follow the money - you can’t go wrong if you follow the money. 🤸🏿‍♀️🥛

[Blot in reply to Hennerton]

Could all be true what you say here. Whatever the rationale the fact is that insufficient reasons have been put forward to discount the use of liothyronine pretty suddenly without apparent and vigorous challenge of the manufacturing companies..........so yes l do think there are wheels within wheels that the public does not know about..... and the drs not prepared to investigate. Might have something to do with pensions of course. Whistleblowers are not treated kindly

[MaisieGray]

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theory-type of thinking, but I'd love to see "them" try and close down Amazon, which is where many buy their supplements. But why would "Big Pharma" want to close down access to say vitamin tablets, when they are known to be taken both by the worried well who wouldn't in any case be being prescribed licensed meds, so no competition; as well as people who want to literally supplement their prescribed meds, so little or no impact on licensed drug sales. However, you have the T3 scenario skewed. How might closing down sites selling supplements, lead to a Liothyronine price increase; and why would Concordia, as it was at the time, increase the price of its own drug "in order to force gps and hospitals to refuse its use" - as marketing strategies go, it doesn't seem the most logical or cost-effective ....... Concordia (Advanz as it is now known) is an international pharmaceutical company whose 2018 revenue was $537 million, and so it is one of those "Big Pharma" companies that you allege is tactically blocking T3 use .... In any case, the number of UK prescriptions for T3 is a drop in the ocean compared with those for Levothyroxine - in the UK, Levo was the second highest prescribed drug in 2017, at 32.2 million prescriptions being issued. Blocking or allowing T3 prescribing couldn't begin to make a dent in those numbers; and even if you are implying that patients being prescribed T3 some how means there is a corresponding drop in their need for other drugs that's going to dent Big Pharma profits worldwide, it's not guaranteed (I take 9 other tablets daily even with T3), but in the US where both T3 and NDTs are routinely prescribed, I don't think there's evidence of pharmaceuticals going out of business as a result. However, Concordia alleges that the more recent substantial proportion of its T3 price hike (6000% over 10 years, in total) was as a result of investment in its new manufacturing premises and that its resultant new pricing proposals were discussed with the MHRA in advance; but in any case, it is already under investigation by the Competition & Marketing Authority (the Office of Fair Trading closed in 2014). Additionally, a considerable dossier about T3 prescribing has been submitted to the then Health Minister at the end of last year, with the sponsorship of Lord Hunt of Kings Heath.

[Blot in reply to MaisieGray]

Good to know Regulation Agencies have possible malpractice in their sights........ and l do see the withdrawal of liothyronine as an example of non-investigative malpractice.

[helvella Administrator in reply to MaisieGray]

I rather agree, MaisieGray

For years, the major pharmaceutical companies have been investing heavily in vitamins and supplements. I think they would be delighted for anyone to be "advertising" sources.

Even when they do not invest directly in vitamin and supplement manufacturers, they already often have stakes in suppliers of excipients and manufacturing facilities, etc.

[MaisieGray in reply to helvella]

Gosh, I hadn't even thought of the excipient and manufacturing aspect. Good point helvella

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Before recent legislation to stop it, there was absolutely no system in place for the NHS to even ask the question of what price they were paying for any generic medication. The assumption was competition would drive prices down

The buying up of off-patent single license medications (so not competition) and recatergorise them as generics, enabled exploitation of loophole.

Described in the Financial Times way back in 2012

Low volume Generic medications seen as "little jewellery boxes"

ft.com/content/5ba9dafe-12f...

".....hoping to exploit the stable growth of these cheap off-patent medicines that are sold in low volumes and with limited risk of price competition.

These relatively neglected drugs, ..........dubbed “little jewellery boxes”, can still attract strong sales"

Loophole closed in 2017

Price has been falling, down from £258 to £204 for 28 tablets. Slight increase this month to £206

Government has the power to step in and force price down.....currently obviously they have got other issues on their minds!

Recent media coverage

thyroidtrust.org/media-cove...

medscape.com/viewarticle/90...