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Thyroid UK
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I'm thinking of leaving this forum due to censorship. What is the point of a forum if admin turn off a discussion for no reason?

I was just reading all the replies to my post on 'Root Cause' (the hazards of root canal) which was a popular thread, I tried to reply but was told I could no longer reply as they had shut it down. No reason given by admin. It was a very interesting discussion which I was partaking in. Dear admin, care to give a reason for this please? Or will you just delete this post? (I have screenshot it all.)

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can i see what you have on route canal, i have a couple of teeth worn through to the soft tissue and swollen glands on the lowest part of my neck

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I suspect it was because most of the conversation was a month ago, you replying / asking more questions 4 weeks later will not be seen by most.There do seem to have been a lot of replies to your post then. If you want to start a new post then you might get answers from others; the admin. is not censoring you, infact the opposite making sure all are involved if they want in an updated post

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People would see replies, they get notifications! I had a shed load of notifications when I logged on today. I have email notifications turned off but once a month this site still emails me asking if I'd like to contribute to a discussion as I have experience of Levothyroxine. Also new people read older threads. I know I do.

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Yes , I sometimes read old posts...even by accident ones of 4 plus years. But it is difficult for all the forum members to see older posts, and actively respond to them. Just post an update, or new question and you might get more responses.

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They only get notifications if they sign up for them. it is generally considered good admin practice to close old posts, and good member practice not to hijack other people's posts. Remember that admins are all unpaid volunteers. Much more effective to start your own post. Membership of a group implies acceptance of its rules and culture.

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I think maybe you're over reacting. Turning off replies is not censorship. If admin wanted to censor you, surely they would delete the whole thing.

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Besides, root canal is not directly a thyroid issue and this is a thyroid forum.

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root canals can cause thyroid issues so it should definitely be talked about here 😊

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Absolutely. People have no idea how so many things disrupt our hormones and root canals are definitely one, as are all the endocrine disrupters in our food, plastics, environment, etc Emotions are also considered a massive issue. Louise Hay mentions how Thyroid issues are connected to not being able to speak our truth, or feeling squashed, which makes a lot of sense

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I completely agree. A lot of people are willing to alter their medications and keep going to doctors but theres so much importance of taking responsibility for yourself and getting to the root cause of what is going on in your body.

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WoW! Let everyone 'be what they choose' BUT... endos dish out enough heebie jeebie 'range' stuff, lets' not stoop down to further ludicrous speculation.

I like your comments MaisyGrace - and mean no disrespect to you - just the Hay House movement... with its LoA and new, New, NEW Age cult. Wherever I see this, I will pass comment, wherever it is and whoever is saying it.

You say:

"Louise Hay mentions how Thyroid issues are connected to not being able to speak our truth, or feeling squashed"... which makes a lot of sense

1. In this arena - there is no 'truth', as such - none for endocrinologists and certainly none for the Hay House lot...

2. Any 'belief or whatever people choose to call it' of mine has never been connected to not being able to speak out and I have never, ever felt squashed.

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That's fine. we're all different. however it will be true for some people who haven't thought about it or considered it as an option. With Quantum science now showing that everything (and everyone) is 'energy' - quantum particles that are connected, emotions are also energetic, we as humans have an electro magnetic field (our bodies are electrical and our emotions are magnetic) and recent research has shown that the origin of all illness is NOT associated with bacteria, viruses, etc, etc but of emotional origin, which is energetic and ties into the quantum theory and the quantum field of which we are all a part. So whilst it may appear way out as an idea, science is now validating what others have 'known' intuitively but haven't been able to scientifically validate viz Louise Hay. As I say, everyone is free to take their own path and believe what they choose, however for those who may choose to explore new options, this offers another way forward for them

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Of course we have and are 'energy' and of course our hormones and emotions continue to remain so poorly misunderstood within the mainstream... all of that goes without saying. We need not, however, resort to fanciful notions to substitute current poor thyroid medicine. Yeah, everyone can make their choices but there are excellent works on the thyroid; perhaps people could look those up when in doubt of what they're getting today from endocrinology? Let's please try to avoid not only throwing out the baby with the bathwater but the entire plumbing system with it.

Again, I disagree in the strongest sense, from a background which, inter alia, included The History of Science and The History of Knowledge [much of which began with 'intuitive hunches' but which were CORRIGIBLE - for that's what science is about], plus formal logic etc - old school!], and say that this is no way forward. There is scant 'truth' as of yet, likely never will be because much is ongoing in the building of new knowledge, knocking away that which is clearly 'muddle-headed' and/or no longer of service to us. Therefore, much of endocrinology or Hay House do not have a special place, even in the current 'approximation game' we have today as [workable] knowledge; adding further to confusion will not help anyone

Is it the case that, were Ms Hay anywhere near being accurate, and people actually go on to 'find their truth'/don't feel 'squashed' that they can, somehow, mend their thyroid condition? I think not, otherwise we'd then be falling into that appalling Weetman school of 'It's all in the head'! We must of course agree to disagree... I tend to err on the side of caution and refrain from offering inadequacies worse than those we must already face within endocrinology. I'm all for people arming themselves with the rich history of hypothyroidism and, if they feel a need to find 'their truth'/not be 'squashed', then please go off to an appropriate place for such help. Resorting to £$ cash-cow fairy tales is not an answer for hypothyroidism..

I have met too many people who've considered this apparent ['gentle'] cult as an option for everyday life... they have been suitably [since they knew little else] convinced and been changed from the people they were. Imagine someone going into their GP, convinced that they somehow 'haven't been able to speak their truth' feel 'squashed', to wind up with psych meds or even psychiatry likely to be the next GP suggestion! :-) For sure, they will not be taken seriously... but in a worse way than they are now. I don't feel that about someone having unsubstantiated beliefs but - as many of us know - even questioning their knowledge on hypothyroidism [I do this a lot] will ever have the Louise Hay version listened to.

As part of [quantum] measurement within psychology [back in 1982 - '85 part of my studies] I am aware and have kept myself updated in a > minor way in the quantum field. Alas it has become used as the rag-bag of any new, New, NEW Age cult. As for bacteria, viruses... of course this can't be validated a la these ludicrous Hay notions and neither can it by [inadequate] reference to the ever growing QM bandwagon.

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Whilst I admire your passion for your argument, Linda.... we must still leave space for everyone to find and connect the dots and clues that underpin their health issues. There never will be one size fits all, but the more we remain open to ALL the potential contributory factors, without prejudice, the more likely each of us will find the answers that we seek.

Science is now showing us new ways that are 180 degrees from what 'science' traditionally has believed and there is much more to come.

So let us all be open to examining every piece of the puzzle and come to our own conclusions and let us create a safe space where we are all free to do so with support from one another.

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MaisyGrace, any 'passion' ;-) I have is for people getting appropriate healthcare; something so many of us with thyroid conditions are not receiving. Not once have I advocated that people shouldn't become alert to their own health issues... just not to be suckered in up yet another blind alley.

People can only join the dots if they have the full picture; something we do not have. When desperate for a solution people will, heuristically, jump on board pretty much anything for succour. Without capacity to decipher sh*t from clay - which takes several types of higher education knowledge within certain fields - how are people to achieve that? No one can simply 'think things up when interested'!? Yes, I do fully understand that science has and will continue to change, ALWAYS. I think I've said enough on that above. :-)

In that good old spirit of scientific endeavour, we must remember not to include everything + the kitchen sink, when encouraging people to embrace that which they cannot possibly understand, NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE STUPID BUT BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD NO EXPOSURE WHATSOEVER TO IT. There can be no 'equality' of choice; there is no level playing field, which is 'without prejudice', unless people KNOW the bits of the jig-saw. This is not about 'being open' - otherwise even doctors would, by now, have realised their blatantly obvious errors.

Please respond to this one aspect: is it the case that, were Ms Hay anywhere near being accurate in her assertion(s), and people actually go on to 'find their truth'/ don't feel 'squashed' that they can, somehow, mend their thyroid condition? I think not, otherwise we'd then be falling into that appalling Weetman school of 'It's all in the head'!

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H Linda.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who are glad to have you on their side as their advocate.

I also think you're probably taking me too literally.

I am offering the 'emotional' component as an additional factor to consider when seeking a long term solution to a health problem.

There are no absolutes in health or in life and we know how, for example, depression can lower the immune system - as just one example of the power of emotion.

Solutions are never simple and always multi-factorial, however if we undervalue a strong, underlying contributory factor such as our emotional state, all the interventions in the world won't fix the issue long term; they'll just put a sticking plaster over the symptom.

I also believe we have to trust in the innate intelligence of individuals to discern what is right for them and what is not.

No-one holds all the information or ever will and regardless, people will choose to make to make up their own minds with what 'feels' as well as 'think's right, working on the information they have available to them at the time.

And of course, if one approach doesn't work, they go back to the drawing board and find another one to try until something works for them and of course, it's highly probably since we're all unique, the combinations of approaches and solutions will vary according to each individual.

Often it is in making a decision that doesn't work, that we learn the most about ourselves as individuals, as much as the solution we're looking for. It's the same in all decisions in life. We grow ourselves in our process.

Like you, I too support individuals by providing different (and valid) perspectives, so we are actually on the same side.

It's ok that you don't agree with me, or what I'm presenting, it doesn't however mean it's invalid or without merit. It's just different.

Can we leave it there, or is there something else you'd like to challenge me with <laugh>?

You know we're not adversaries, we just may not share exactly the same perspective, which is how the world (and solutions) evolves.

I hope you have a good evening, Linda.

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There are so few absolutes/’truths’ at all. Healthcare is undoubtedly bound to be fraught, given it is more of an art than an ‘exact science’: [what’s one on those!?]. Any ‘challenge’ to you was on the basis of Ms Hay and her… it’s all been said by me above. The Hay issue is what it is and by association it became literal when attached to your offering; nothing personal to you. As first stated I like what you have to say on this and other posts. I have no issue with you at all.

I took this issue as you presented your post… of course emotional aspects can never, ever, be disregarded from any personal health or any other endeavour. People might do well to remember that doctors will use that as their fall-back position for what they’ve been unable to diagnose and/or attempt to resolve. It is generally unwise to bring ‘emotion’ into the equation unless the patient has and recognises their own emotional issue(s) because it becomes a catch all for any/everything whether it’s there or not.

Everything else you’re saying – validity, approaches, different perspectives etc, etc, - of course I accept and/or agree with. We are clearly all governed by our heuristic make-up. When it comes to medical decisions and our personal decisions in uncertainty, my advice/preference would always be to accumulate as much ‘evidence’ as possible, not rely on new [to them] ad hoc ideas of which they’re unfamiliar. Whilst we’re living in this bizarre ‘opinion-based X-Factor-my opinion is as good as anyone’s world’, people are being bombarded by issues which they simply don’t have sufficient information to make an informed choice [our current political mayhem well displays that!].

As for ‘challenging’ <laugh> you, this interaction became a two-way street way back up above. I seek not to have anyone to confirm or disconfirm my own opinion… that is not my way at all. I do, however, baulk when ‘heebie jeebie woo’ is put forward as… even potentially valid re hypothyroidism. I was hoping for a direct response from you on my Q. 

It is all done for me – no issue left for me and that too was made clear way above. Thank you, I am already enjoying my evening/weekend and I wish the same to you also.

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Sorry, Linda. Wasn't aware I avoided answering a question. Happy to respond if you point it out. I think it got lost in the flow <laugh>

I think we're on the same page regarding health experiences, as the allopathic health system is now so flawed/underfunded, it's unworkable, unless you break a limb or need a heart massage... then they do a great job.

There are of course some genuinely committed individuals fighting to stay afloat within a purposely collapsed system.

Let's just hope that a new more serviceable system can arise in the future - that's more holistic and natural health based. I favour functional medicine where they consider the whole body interaction vs picking on just one part ie; the endocrine system, heart, lungs, etc, etc. Anyone would think we were made of lego pieces <laugh>

Great to interact with you. Have a lovely evening

x

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No issue MaisyGrace - same here re interacting - and I certainly share those views above!

Best to you! 😂🌹☘️🍻☘️🌹😎

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and much of what Louise Hay spoke of was in fact from ancient chinese and ayurvedic beliefs -each organ in the body and energy channel being related to a particular emotion for instance and the blockage of these energy channels - or chakras or nadis -would result in particular types of disease. the scientific community is im afraid very blinkered to anything that cant be double blind trialled or " proven " using their particular tools. " there are more things in heaven and earth etc etc " As you say quantum physics is showing us things now that the scientific world once poo pooed and refused to believe .

" The only thing more dangerous than ignorance is arrogance " and Im afraid much of the medical and scientific world displays the latter in abundance

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Brilliant observation. Well said. Thank you. Cheered me up no end <laugh>

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Better believe it's from some such source... then there's LoA and it's proponents... the scientific community often can't 'prove' much either. QM only shows, in the same way, a similar fallibility that much else does: it is the willingness to believe that gives 'credence' and a trademark to something. Nothing is exempt.

What isn't feasible is jumping on the next bandwagon, believing the same type of... and then claiming this to be somehow different. And the only thing more dangerous than both arrogance and ignorance is bandwagon jumping between eigenstates ;-) All are fallible, many are just plain ridiculous... the trick is knowing how, when and why a good approximation is so and why it is not.

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I've never heard of Louise Hay so can't comment but have just finished the superb 'Great Cholesterol Con' by Dr Malcolm Kendrick where he comes down strongly on stress, in all its forms, as a major cause of heart disease. I know that physical and psychological stress has played a role in the development of my various conditions and that addressing this as part of improving my situation was and is essential. I am really glad that you have always been able to speak out and have never felt squashed but although I might not have put it like that, that is exactly how I have felt and I'm sure I'm not alone. Dr Kendrick says " Don't be a victim. Don't feel trapped. Assert yourself and ensure that people give you the respect that you - indeed, all of us - deserve." It seems a shame to put people off investigating further when none of us really know the multiple strands that may lie behind our illnesses.

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One of my 'heroes' - amazing guy! :-)

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rationalwiki.org/wiki/Malco... There are people who believe he is a promoter of woo woo!! (by the way I have no idea if any of this info is accurately referenced.. it’s hard to know what is and isn’t misinformation these days! Sigh...)

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BTW though I haven’t read his book, but I think there is science backing the stress link with heart disease!

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Who Malcolm Kendrick? They must be joking!

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Hi. I think it's good to look at both sides of the argument and then just see which one 'speaks' to you and then investigate that one further. You can always change your mind and reinvestigate the other at a later date if you choose to. The good thing is, when you do your own research, vs rely on others, it has more power and value to you because you did it, you 'own' the results you find ie; if they resonate with you. I think we disregard and downplay our own intuitive abilities - they are a natural human 'sense' and valuable 'tool' that we've forgotten how to use and trust. Good luck!

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Yes I am sure that’s what most people do... perhaps rather than (try) and investigate both sides objectively. I suppose naturally one side may speak to you more, as you say. I am one of the indecisive types, a fence-sitter, but I think it does have certain advantages to seeing both sides! We all have a tendency towards confirmation bias and will apply less importance to information that doesn’t support our prior beliefs. Of course we are entitled to our beliefs. It’s a shame though when spreading them about potentially causes others harm... It can truely be hard to investigate things yourself....a lot of issues are so highly complex, there is limited access to unbiased information at times and who has the time!!!!

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This seems like a great opportunity to start trusting yourself and your gut instinct more. (If you're of a scientific nature, there is research to validate this).

Go slowly and at each stage see you 'feel' about what you're doing.

If it doesn't feel right, just stop and try the opposite approach and then check in and see how you feel about that. Intuition and gut instinct is like a muscle, you have to start using it to develop it and see how it can work for you. Good luck! Fence sitting is painful <laugh>

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I like it.... I like at least to understand where other people are coming from. Why the dichotomy...? With thinking and feeling/intuition, i don’t see why you can’t do both of those things applied to whatever situation you’re in

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That's absolutely right. It's optimal when we can balance the two: head and heart when we make our decisions.

To be controversial, however, I believe our 'heart' should lead ie; in cases of indecision, listen to how you 'feel' about something vs what you 'think' about it and honour your feelings as the final decision maker.

Your intuition often 'knows' what's right, even if your logical brain can't yet fathom what that might be.

You may not know that when we're formed as an embryo, the spinal column (made of neural cells) breaks off at the top to become the brain and the bottom to become the gut, so we have neural cells in our gut, which is why we have the 'instinct' coming from our gut.

It is our heart, however, that in embryo development. forms before any other organ and then regulates all other organs, including the brain - which it does throughout our life. (Ref. HeartMath Institute)

The electromagnetic field of the heart is in fact 20 x that of the brain.

We have been taught to believe however that it is the brain that regulates/rules the functioning of the body... so we worship the brain as the 'central' function of our human bodies, when that is not strictly the case.

Sorry, that was a long diversionary explanation <laugh> however it's important we start listening to and acknowledging the power of our 'heart' (gut feeling) our feelings and emotions, as much as our logical powers of thinking.

Often times we will take the logical approach even when it doesn't 'feel' right to us ie; it's counterintuitive, yet we do it regardless.

The other option is to listen to what 'feels' right, even if it doesn't necessarily compute or 'think' right/logical.

Our 'heart' (feelings, emotions, intuition) in my opinion is our natural and internal guiding compass or satnav in life that we frequently dismiss or overlook

Hope I haven't totally confused you <laugh>

Have a good evening...

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I get the gut-brain link - I actually have strong views on holism (over dualism) and mind-body medicine. I am not saying I don’t have opinions, just for example on the statin debate I don’t favour one side... statins are overprescribed, I am sure, should be personal choice depending on what’s important to the individual and I am sure there is some truth in some of what Malcolm Kendrick says, but he doesn’t have science in his side with other bits, though he gives the impression he does...

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Hi ... sorry just noticed your post.... I tend to 'collect' information on natural health (and lots of other things too <laugh>), so wondered f you might like to read the following article on statins....

I know a lot has been published, this contains a lot of verifiable research however and may offer a perspective you might like to consider - or not <laugh>

coconutoil.com/statin-scam-...

Thanks for the exchange... Warmly MG x

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Thanks! I like coconut oil on my scalp... that aside there are others who would say this... sciencebasedmedicine.org/th...

I have no issue with what people think or believe. My only issue is with those who spread misinformation for their own gain. I think this is a bigger problem with some promoters of natural cures and people who work in private practice deliberately targeting those who have become disenfranchised with medics. If people get benefit and are happy... that’s fine, but if they come to harm it’s sad.

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Do you actually have a thyroid or endocrine condition? 🤔

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Yes

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Hi there...

I just came across this and thought you might enjoy it as an example of when intuition does work <laugh> ... I'm sure you'll enjoy the story anyhow... or at least, I hope so...

thedodo.com/close-to-home/w...

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'Truth'... ? Basically, aside from a couple of aspects of Pure Math... 'truth' is rather suspect :-)

Perhaps you might care to read Malcolm Kendrick:

"Doctoring Data: How to Sort Out Medical Advice from Medical Nonsense"

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Thanks, I have no issue with him to be honest. I’d probably like him as my GP. But there are people that point out that spreading his views may be damaging to some and they may be in a position to understand this better than me.

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Would love him as my GP :-) Yes, I can see that too, with anyone spreading views being potentially damaging - this was/is my baulk with MG - leaving certain matters in the hands of those who really DON'T KNOW even the basics of what's required, then layering on introspective 'self-care'/'heart' stuff can indeed be a dangerous thing. I'm outta here. :-) x Best wishes!

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I’d like Dr Amir Khan from GPs Behind Closed Doors as my Dr. Has time for everyone and listens to them. D

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I know that Malcolm Kendrick is "spreading" (in your opinion). But what are you "spreading" and what is your objective? 🤔

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Different peoples opinions? it’s nice to be open-minded and consider a variety of ideas... isn’t that what forums are for? Or is groupthink recommended?

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On another post, you alleged that you sit on the fence. It is however quite clear that you are not on the fence and that you are rather on the side of the Science Based Medicine quacks and Rational Wiki quacks who daily, no hourly, try to discredit open minded people.

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I didn’t write the links! I am on no ‘side’ but my own. I wasn’t even posting as my own view... Just pointing out other views exist. It’s interesting that people interpret the same information differently and that this presumably is because of their existing knowledge, beliefs etc etc... that’s what I interpreted the discussion to be about and I thought it was an interesting discussion to have.

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Thoroughly enjoying this educated discussion and debate.

Could you please give me a reference for the electromagnetic of the heart ... very interesting indeed.

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Hi, of course, the best source I believe at the moment is through the Heart Math Institute, which is a global organisation and has been studying heart/brain coherence for years. I'm about to become a certified HeartMath Coach as well, as I believe that there are many natural ways we can support our health over and above pharmaceutical interventions, which of course, have their place, however I prefer to try the least invasive and more natural approaches to support me and those around me, first.

Here's a link to the science behind their work:

heartmath.com/science/

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Thank you MaisyGrace for the links. This is indeed very interesting material however, I was first struck by the push to sell, which makes me very wary. I do understand that the research work needs to be funded but for the moment I am sceptical. Nonetheless, many thanks for introducing me to this alternative source.

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Hmmm.... Interesting perception on 'selling'. I didn't see that at all. Is that something you generally are concerned about? I'm sharing because it's valuable information. I think in the face of 'choice' - to buy or not to buy (what were they selling?), you take you what you need and leave the rest.

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When money is involved, for me the scientific value is tarnished. I would look very closely at the methods used to gather the data. Questionaires containing closed questions can be a source for bias depending on how the questions are asked and the options for answering. Showing pictures of a traumatic situation to illicit an emotional reaction is also qustionable. For example, if you show a picture of severly injured people at the scene of a road traffic accident, one would imagine that study participants with jobs in healthcare or emergency services might respond differently to someone with no experience of trauma. If these potential confounding factors are made visable, then the methods used can be assessed therefore, the research would demostrate credibility. However, I have not found access to this information source.

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Here's another link to a heart/mind coherence technique you can perform daily

heartmath.com/quick-coheren...

MG x

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Another one for you.. the research (vs the science)

heartmath.com/research/

MG x

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I don’t know whether you have read the book ‘Thinking, fast and slow’ by Daniel Kahneman? It’s basically about biases of intuition..... it’s very interesting!

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No. I haven't read that book, but from the title, it sounds like it's arguing against trusting your intuition. There is no easy or absolute answer to anything. We have to do our own research, but then ultimately form our own conclusions. I know I'd rather use my own internal antenna and trust my own judgement, than trust the biases and 'interests' of others in determining what's right for me. But hey, we all have a choice. Good luck!

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No I don’t think so... just recognising we all have them and it can influence our intuition and decision making. I value my intuition a lot!!. I found it quite helpful to consider how others make decisions. I’m sometimes baffled by other people’s choices and decision making but we all think differently.

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Wow - good stuff from Kahneman - have you read his

"Judgment under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases"

and

"Choices, Values, and Frames" - Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky

One of my favourite books, serving as a good heuristic_not_to_'reminder':

"Human Inference: Strategies and Shortcomings of Social Judgment" -

Richard Nisbett and Lee Ross

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No I haven’t but will add to reading list!!

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Our 'intuition' is riddled with heuristically driven biases - unconscious, sub-conscious, 'conscious - top-down and bottom up driven - since 'free will' [apparently where 'choice' emanates!?] is not at what it seems... all all filled with prejudice(s).

But Pinkcoral, we can do our utmost to keep in check the worst of our biases by cultivating our intuitiveness :-) X

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How do you think we best do that?

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Not sure people can do much together to counter charlatans: we clearly must each walk our own path when making such decisions :-)

I used to use good old Signal Detection Theory - ROC Curves - great for determining our individual handling of information as it comes into our system, amidst stored knowledge/heuristics/prejudices - all combining - and where there are surely pitfalls. We are indeed 'Intuitive Scientists' when it comes to our belief system(s).

The amazing ROC tool permits us at very least to know something about ourselves: on testing we actually ARE either accurate or not, as the case might be. The second aspect tested is that not only were we accurate but that we actually KNEW (confidence) that we were during the testing process. This is not a sophisticated tool, not definitive BUT it lets the individual know how well they handle information within their decision making.

By questioning ourselves more, by hopefully not falling into 'traps', e.g. where selling something [even just an ego!] appears to be 'too good'... too simple, seeking to flatter... Growth of knowledge is wonderful and thankfully inevitable, but as you will know, there are so many fads to beware of.

Without a background in this field [and that is still NO guarantee, merely an 'insurance safeguard'], we must of course question our own reasoning for x, y and z beliefs, not simply accept some 'new guru' selling their latest... I'm generally suspicious when a new fad invokes 'science', given where the majority of people have barely heard of such detail and can be so easily blinded by something 'appealing'. Without some background in how many beans make 5, people so often get suckered.

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Thanks, that’s very interesting. I had never heard of this theory. My google search hasn’t really identified how to practically use this for my own decision making... which is something I think about regularly! I don’t suppose you have any links?

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This was presented to us by our Psychology Prof in the early 1980's - originally he'd been a physicist [worked for NASA, Hawker Siddeley, to name a few] - due to his fascination in individual human differences he changed to psychology. His other interests were within the field of decision making: risk assessment, probability, inference = that's how we got to where we did with ROC curves via his teachings... without him we'd have been given some of the all too usual psych... ;-) - some great but some [Primal Screaming and woo :-( ]. Same Prof ran a minor option called 'Fringe Questions' - debunking the whole of paranormal psychology... BUT, our laws of physics are NOT disturbed if it were shown that aliens exist.

Signal Detection Theory has since, following WWII times, been used in some diverse settings. I would love to have seen it introduced in hospitals, you know where the inaccurate reading of slides has led to many deaths... clearly poor signal detectors! I'd have made ROC Testing as part of the interview process. It was originally used to test operators in submarines, (i.e. is there something there - firing at us or not?). During my studies this was carried out as group experiments: I did have a cassette recording [given by Prof] to do testing on anyone wishing to test ROC capability. A friend [with an upside down ROC curve! really smart but bizarre in the accuracy of her perceptions!], borrowed it and it never came back... got left somewhere during her work at various places. I still have the 'instructions' on how to stored away... been wanting to test my husband [I contend he's like the friend above ;-) cr*p ;-) ]. So sorry, vital are the white noise sounds, or the list of spoken words - listened to and then one week later test again = was it [word or noise] there or not? Individual results are then put into a format and plotted onto a graph - not particularly difficult to do.

Some people are excellent receivers of signals. Retrospectively it was shown that The Rev Dr Nevil Maskelyne DD FRS FRSE (1732 – 1811), fifth British Astronomer Royal, actually sacked his assistant David Kinnebrook [1794 - 1796] due to a dispute over their respective timing of stellar transits. Kinnebrook was in fact accurate in his timings: it was Maskelyne, Astronomer Royal. who was inaccurate. Kinnebrook finally became better known on account of his unwitting role in giving birth to both the concept of the personal equation and to his findings which gave rise to the science of experimental psychology.

Sorry I can't provide you with a recording :-( Also, sorry for the length of this. I can't precis now due to long neglected hypothyroidism/hypothermia [freezing cold I've now fixed!]... I know where the problem is in my brain. :-) Take care and be well x

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How interesting! It’s amazing what you learn on a thyroid forum!

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Thanks - I know where my weaknesses lie and know what to watch myself with - e.g. not 'believing' in woo or that I can work stuff out that I know nothing about... is at best fanciful: that is my 'reasoning' for comments above to MG.

We must never stop learning and must always beware... 😂🌹☘️🍻☘️🌹😎

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Can you please provide a link to the roc tool, this all sounds very deep and interesting

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Hi mauschen - as such, the only thing needed is a recording [White Noise or a list of words - listened to- then tested at a later date] and 'instructions' on how to interpret data/results. My recording... long gone. Here's some info from another post and a link to more detail.

Signal Detection Theory has since, following WWII times, been used in some diverse settings. I would love to have seen it introduced in hospitals, you know where the inaccurate reading of slides has led to many deaths... clearly poor signal detectors! I'd have made ROC Testing as part of the interview process. It was originally used to test operators in submarines, (i.e. is there something there - firing at us or not?). During my studies this was carried out as group experiments: I did have a cassette recording [given by Prof] to do testing on anyone wishing to test ROC capability. A friend [with an upside down ROC curve! really smart but bizarre in the accuracy of her perceptions!], borrowed it and it never came back... got left somewhere during her work at various places. I still have the 'instructions' on how to stored away... been wanting to test my husband [I contend he's like the friend above ;-) cr*p ;-) ]. So sorry, vital are the white noise sounds, or the list of spoken words - listened to and then one week later test again = was it [word or noise] there or not? Individual results are then put into a format and plotted onto a graph - not particularly difficult to do.

Some people are excellent receivers of signals. Retrospectively it was shown that The Rev Dr Nevil Maskelyne DD FRS FRSE (1732 – 1811), fifth British Astronomer Royal, actually sacked his assistant David Kinnebrook [1794 - 1796] due to a dispute over their respective timing of stellar transits. Kinnebrook was in fact accurate in his timings: it was Maskelyne, Astronomer Royal. who was inaccurate. Kinnebrook finally became better known on account of his unwitting role in giving birth to both the concept of the personal equation and to his findings which gave rise to the science of experimental psychology.

Sorry I can't provide you with a recording :-(

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

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Thank you Linda, that’s enough information for me to do a bit of self research on the subject matter... fascinating!

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It certainly was and still is to me. I'd love to get another recording - maybe something online? Thanks :-) x

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It has long since been shown that 'intuition', then the interpretative [notion of self-reflection] re 'introspection' can be quite a poor tool indeed. Using this to 'research' own healthcare issues and 'feeling'/'the heart' - oh my, I must leave this. Not quite sure what the regular < laugh > is about... but enjoy xox :-)

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I fear you're likey missing out on a key area of life, but hey ho.... we all have choice to make. Good luck with yours!!

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No need to fear ;-) But how you can make such assumption on the life of a person and make some of the claims you have... is beyond me. I have a research background - and colleagues to bounce off - "Decisions in Uncertainty" is my field.

Ah 'choice' is simply not what many think it is and that is on the basis of numerous psychological/philosophical reasons. As a result, I'm not convinced or fooled by tricks, flippancy, over-confidence [without substance], personal quips <laugh> or !!

Good Evening.

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Good luck to you, Linda. I wish you all the very best.

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Interesting that you "have no idea"... but then you keep posting stuff from the science based site and the rational wiki site. 🤔

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No idea about what? I read that sort of thing... along with a variety of other sources though... I should add I don’t count Wikipedia as a reliable source in any way, but it’s hard to avoid in a google search! May main point was about reliability of information and what to trust...

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So pleased for you. Glad you're walking your own path. Well done you. When you do that for yourself, you give permission to others to do the same, so great to hear. Congratulations.

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it may seem new agey to you but in traditional chinese and ayurvedic medicine the throat chakra -and therefore the thyroid - is related to voicing ones needs and by extension speaking out . just because it doesnt relate to you doesnt mean the idea has no credence to others and to dismiss such ancient belief systems as woo woo is both ignorant and disrespectful

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I thought this was just speculation. I didn't know there was absolute proof that root canals can cause thyroid issues.

I've several root canals, but in hindsight I can see that they were all done long after my first symptoms of thyroid problems. So for me, I think it's most likely my thyroid issue caused the problems with gums/teeth and not the other way around.

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I asked an professor of endocrinology if infections - known and unknown - can trigger or exacerbate thyroid &/or pituitary issues? He gave me an emphatic YES.

How you can think that an infection in the jaw, the face, the neck, or any other part of the body, does not in any way impact thyroid or pituitary or endocrine function is beyond me. 🤔

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StitchFairy I disagree, turning off the free choice of a member or members, to participate in a dialogue, is exactly censorship. Of course it is. Censorship is the suppression of speech, or any other form of public communication or information dissemination, Deliberately blocking that, is censorship. To be clear, I'm not commenting whether censorship is or isn't ever warranted, or whether specifically in this instance it is or isn't, only disagreeing with your assertions that turning off a thread to further commenting isn't evidence of censorship, and that for censorship to be in evidence, the written product of free speech necessarily has to be deleted. Cencorship doesn't have to be wholesale, for it to be censorship; nor need its underpinning intention be bad; but the effect can be just as deleterious or wrong.

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In the big wide world, I'm sure you're right. But given we're talking about this little forum, I still think it's over reacting and that admin would simply delete the whole thing , ban it from being discussed, or even ban the member if they actually wanted to censor.

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You’ve got me interested now. I shall take a look at your link

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I’d say generally on this site there is very little censorship other than no advertising, no naming doctors, no abuse of either fellow members or admin, no selling ‘magic cures’ or medicines and sometimes when a thread has gone on and on just isn’t getting anywhere. I agree with the possible reasons given, I sometimes get comments made in response to posts I made four or more years ago and wonder where they have come from. I can see why people new to the group c9me across them but it is strange to get a response after such a long time.

If you do choose to leave the group then that’s your choice but I wouldn’t leave a group as good as this because someone closed a thread - if you want to continue it post again yourself.

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Yes, saying you might leave the forum because of further replies being stopped on a post seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

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Hello All.

As an ex-dental nurse who has Hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's disease, I can confirm that thyroid problems do impact on teeth and gums etc.

Thyroid disease can lead to imbalance in the homeostasis of the body and affect the healing capacity of tissues, especially the gums.

The most common findings for hypothyroidism and oral health include characteristic macroglossia (the medical term for an unusually large tongue), dysgeusia (distortion to the sense of taste), delayed tooth eruption, altered tooth morphology, delayed wound healing and periodontal disease (infections of the structures around the teeth, including the gums, periodontal ligament and alveolar bone).

The thyroid is a small gland, yet it is amazing how it is linked to practically ever part of the body.

I would also recommend trying a natural toothpaste as fluoride can have a negative impact on the thyroid.

I use Sarakan toothpaste from Holland and Barrett. This can also be purchased from Amazon. I always think is Christmas could have a taste, this is what it would be like 😉

Hope this helps.

CatPaws🐾

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That is exactly what I believe, that it's the thyroid problem that causes the dental issues. Not that root canal treatments cause the thyroid problem. That's certainly my experience because since being on thyroid meds my dental issues have been soooo much better.

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Thanks for that useful information. Must give Sarakan a try. At the moment I’m using Himalaya Botanique, I get it from Amazon, it’s really mild mint and has no nasties if any sort in it. Can definitely recommend it. It isn’t cheap but it lasts a long time.

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It does seem soon to have turned off replies. Why should people have to start a new thread and rehash the same thing.

I'm confused about the order of replies on this forum also. With other boards I am on, if you reply, then that thread is brought to the top as the most current. But here, if you reply to a sub-reply, your reply gets tucked under that person even though it is the most current reply. I find the order confusing.

On other forums you can quote another's reply, and both will go at the bottom as being most current and the thread will go to the top.

Maybe I don't understand the workings of this board though.

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I think that is to do with Health Unlocked, the way things are set up, not the admins.

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You are right, but I think if this board "behaved" like other boards, where recent comments bring a thread to the top and make it current, it wouldn't be necessary to lock a thread because it's "old."

Judithalston said "Yes , I sometimes read old posts...even by accident ones of 4 plus years. But it is difficult for all the forum members to see older posts, and actively respond to them. Just post an update, or new question and you might get more responses."

So I'm just saying, why should somebody have to start a whole new post when they only want to comment again on a post that is only a month old? Why have to rehash everything.

So now with this thread, we have 2 threads within a month on the same issue of root canals when all the root canal comments in this thread could have been continued in the original thread, had it not been closed and the original poster allowed to comment in it.

I'm not criticizing the admins, just think a month seems too soon to close a thread ?

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Please don't go. Admit would only delete a post if there was bad language etc and they would contact you and explain this but there is another thing you may not have come across-a search facility. So members can use this and read through old posts, often useful in the night when you are worrying about something or you can re read your answers and may find something that either you need to know more about or even doesn't make sense so agaain you can start a thread with the same subject but ask specifically about what you want expending and may be add in why.

Admins have a complex position, to comment and make suggestions which we can all do, I'm sure many of them have helpful articles they can pass on where relevant but mostly they are there to stop abusive language and also stop threads going on forever when the question has been answered. Yes it may well be that the answers you received meant you were wanting to expand and look into that point more fully but that option is also there for you to do as I said earlier.

The first two years or thereabouts after joining I wasn't brace enough to comment or as a question but I read then every day and learnt such a lot just by doing that. I then tested my own limited knowledge by comparing what would have been my reply against the actual replays and that gave me the confidence to actively participate. I know know such a lot about my personal position but I still read most days as there is often something new I haven't seen before or to see if I can help others as others have helped me. We are never to old to learn! So your post is safely still there to help others and for you to study more if you wish.

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What an interesting thread! I’m having a crown tomorrow after what I believe was root canal work to provide a foundation in the last fortnight.

As a diabetic I knew that I was more likely to suffer gum problems and hence tooth problems. As a hypothyroid as well it seems that I’m doubly at risk and there does seem to be research suggesting that type 2 diabetics are more likely to be hypothyroid and vice versa (paradoxically type 1 diabetics are more likely to be hyperthyroid).

I assume that hypo or hyper thyroid sufferers may also be at increased risk of being diabetic as it may be chance which is tested for and diagnosed first.

I actuallyhave a third risk factor as I’m getting on a bit. Over 70 years so my teeth are well into their 60’s although they were a,ready growing when they pushed my milk/baby teeth out!

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