Hello, i am on t3 only from the 15of July, switching from t4/t3 to t3 only 37mcg following ct3m untill now. I slowly increased t3.. From September untill now i used 50 to 75mcg (last week), 25mcg@4am,25@10am,18.75@3pm, 6.25@7.30pm.
BASICALLY ON SEPTEMBER I HAD :
TSH 0.017
FT4 0.22 0.6-1.76
FT3 5.98 1.5-4.1
RT3 2.4 0.10-0.24 *
TEST RUNNER AT 9AM, 5H AFTER MY CM DOSE.
NOW 4 DICEMBER
TSH 0.001
FT4 0.24 0.6-1.76
FT3 7.44 2.8-4.1
RT3 2.95 0.10-0.24 *
I ALWAYS RUN MY TEST AT THE SAME HOUR.
BASICALLY MY RT3 AND FT4 WON'T GO DOWN!! HOW IS IT POSSIBILE?
PLEASE, DON'T SAY ME STUPID THINGS, I STUDIED A LOT ABOUT THYROID, BOOKS ETC... SO I AM VERY PREPARATED, need some experience, feedback, help.. I am very frustrated.
Of course now my ability to think is improved and have some small energy but i am still so tired etc..
Thank you
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Dawid86
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Are you doing anything that would make your brain think you are unwell? You make rT3 during illness. You can also make it when your free T3 is too high (not just free T4) - and your free T3 is way over range. But only if you have a thyroid. I suspect you are taking too much T3 for you. Your free T4 is low now, but if you have a thyroid you'll always make some.
So you don't want people to say stupid things to you because you are well-studied; and you gracelessly reject marsaday 's help as being nonsense. You may or may not value the author's viewpoint; but there's a right and a wrong way of acknowledging someone's offer of help, and that isn't the right way. I for one, won't bother to offend your superior knowledge with input of my own meagre four decade's experience.
I am very in pain, i read studied, followed groups.. And i am so tired, frustrated to see not helpfull comments. So i was clear without offebd no-one. 🙂"please only feedback or experience", i need some people very competent about rt3 situations, i am so tired to be suffering. Only this. I need help.
You need to be taking levothyroxine alone in order to have RT3.
When we respond, we've no idea if it is useful to the person who posts and can only give our own experiences and we are not medically qualified - just are hypo maybe undiagnosed or not improving on levothyroxine or hyper..
The following is a from a scientist/researcher and and expert who has died through an accident. He was also an expert in Fibromyalgia and Thyroid Hormone Resistance.
"This is from Dr. Lowe:
"Dr. Lowe: Some readers will not be familiar with reverse-T3, and I know from experience that many others harbor misconceptions about the molecule. Because of this, I have summarized in the box below what we know about reverse-T3. I've answered your question below the summary.
Conversion of T4 to T3 and Reverse-T3: A Summary
The thyroid gland secretes mostly T4 and very little T3. Most of the T3 that drives cell metabolism is produced by action of the enzyme named 5'-deiodinase, which converts T4 to T3. (We pronounce the "5'-" as "five-prime.")
Without this conversion of T4 to T3, cells have too little T3 to maintain normal metabolism; metabolism then slows down. T3, therefore, is the metabolically active thyroid hormone. For the most part, T4 is metabolically inactive. T4 "drives" metabolism only after the deiodinase enzyme converts it to T3.
Another enzyme called 5-deiodinase continually converts some T4 to reverse-T3. Reverse-T3 does not stimulate metabolism. It is produced as a way to help clear some T4 from the body.
Under normal conditions, cells continually convert about 40% of T4 to T3. They convert about 60% of T4 to reverse-T3. Hour-by-hour, conversion of T4 continues with slight shifts in the percentage of T4 converted to T3 and reverse-T3. Under normal conditions, the body eliminates reverse-T3 rapidly. Other enzymes quickly convert reverse-T3 to T2 and T2 to T1, and the body eliminates these molecules within roughly 24-hours. (The process of deiodination in the body is a bit more complicated than I can explain in this short summary.) The point is that the process of deiodination is dynamic and constantly changing, depending on the body's needs."
Thank you, of course i studied paul robbison's book, and article by dr lowe. You can have high rt3 due to pathogens, inflammation,stress,adrenal issues etc.. Not only from taking levo.
If tsh is suppressed no t4 will produced and you start to clear rt3.. But i don't understand why i hace some ft4 yet! And consequently high rt3
Because your tsking too much t3!!! Gosh why fo people keep doing this to themselves?!?! T3 CAN and WILL cause high reverse t3 when taken in excess! You know this! Cause it happend to you! Get off of t3 and i promise it will lower.
Ok my apologies if i seems superb, not friendly, i am only in pain, really, from time, no doctors are helping! And rt3-adrenals group abd etc gave me non usefull informations. So simply i am tired to read the usual things.. Like my life style, general not proven article etc. If someone could give me specific smart, useful informations i am grateful.
Please do not focus on rt3. It really is a red herring. Focus on why your body is not using thyroid medication very well.
1) is the problem a case of not enough overall thyroid hormone?
2) is the problem one of not able to absorb the t3 correctly? This is so often the culprit but the reasons why can be many and it can take a lot of time to understand what the root cause is.
You are going to need to provide your history and more information.
Do you have hashimotos?
Are you exercising very hard?
Do you eat enough food?
What mix of t4 and t3 were you on prior to t3 only?
Have you ever tried t4 on its own?
You say you are doing t3 only with the early morning routine. Do you know your levels of cortisol being generated? The ct3m routine can generate a lot of cortisol. To much very often and this can present problems. The body needs a balance between the t3 created and the cortisol created in relation to the t3.
High and low cortisol cause the same issues, namely t3 doesn’t go into the cell.
Very often patients are making themselves ill and tired because the thyroid intake is to high and so the mismatch with cortisol is even worse.
The best way to get better is to find the correct thyroid level and also work on the correct adrenal support. The two have to be massaged together and it is a frustrating journey to find out what works.
Obviously it’s not a first language. So perhaps an idea to make allowances, rather than castigating a clearly stressed individual, over their politeness.
I was going to say the same thing. English is not this guys first language and thus there is a lack of graciousness in the way he words things.
David, what is your first language? I think you will get better responses if you let people know. Are you on the autism spectrum? This could account for your lack of tact. I hope you find a solution to your problem. The people here are very knowledgeable and kind and give their knowledge free of charge. You need to remember to thank people for taking the time to respond to you, even if you think their advice didn't help you.
Typing in capitals is akin to shouting. People don't like being shouted at.
I come to this site often to read question and answers and have learned so much.
You are hyperthyroid....hence why your body is trying to block your hormones with high reverse t3. T3 only can and will cause high reverse t3 if taken in too large amounts. Yes i know people say onlu t4 causes it....not true because been there done that. Our bodies are not meant for that much t3.
For what it's worth, I'll try to make some sense of this, You are on T3 only, but you still have significant though low FT4. Therefore you have some active thyroid left making that T4. At the same time, the T3 you are taking takes you over the top of the FT3 range; that is, too much. This extra T3 is inhibiting your T4-T3 conversion from the thyroid's remaining production. However, the T4 has to go somewhere; it doesn't stick around unchanged. The only place to go is rT3. Therefore your rT3 is high because your T3 dose is too high, inhibiting normal T4-T3 conversion and giving you T4-rT3 conversion instead. Lower your T3, this should lower your rT3.
It hasn't sense to lower t3 because i follow a t3 protocol to suppress tsh 24h,letting clear ft4 and rt3. It is normal that for some times rt3 goes higher but then it will clear, when ft4 will be zero. I am not hyper, and don't respond to not usefull comments. Your was the most sense comment. However, i can't lower t3! I take it to suppress ft4. No ONE HAS A KNOWLEDGE ABOUT RT3/T3 PROTOCOL HERE? SERIOUSLY? 🙄🙄🤔. I THOUGHT SOMEONE COULD HELP ME.. BUT I SEE NO ONE GIVE ME GOOD AND LOGICAL FEEDBACK. Just a precisation, i had high rt3 before any t3! And i use t3 to flushing out rt3 suppressing ft4. The fact is.. How is it possible that after 3 month of a good t3 dosage and tsh suppressed i am still producing a little t4! So i need FEEDBACK ABOUT THIS, I WAS CLEAR😢😔. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN "OPINION" ABOUT OTHER THINGS, I KNOW ALL CAUSE ABOUT HIGH RT3 AND THE PISIOLOGY ABOUT TSH FT4 RT3, BUT ONLY NEED FEEDBACK FROM PEOPLE WHO CLEARED THEIR RT3. PLEASE DON'T THINK I AM AN AGGRESSIVE /STUPID PERSON, JUST I AM SO TIRED TO READ NOT USEFULL COMMENTS. JUST THIS. THANK YOU.
I merely suggested my take on the situation. As a physiological biochemist I do not understand why you want to suppress FT4 because you are suppressing your active thyroid remnant. Your protocol should be enough T3 to give you a normal FT3. Otherwise you are in severe danger of overdosing with all the dangers that brings. T3 does not flush out rT3. The biochemical fates of these are quite separate and the lifetimes also very different. And they do not compete with each other in any biochemical activity.
Okay, now i have to say, i have a degree in biology - cellular molecular.
I studied a lot about, i am followed by a doctor who knows this cases.
You are totally wrong :
The flushing out protocol WORSK BECAUSE AT A CERTAIN DOSAGE OF T3 YOUR TSH WILL BE SUPPRESSED 24H,YOUR FT4 WILL CLEAR AND CONSEQUENTLY YOUR RT3!!! MY PROBLEM IS I HAD VERY HIGH RT3 BEFORE ANY TREATMENT, WITH NORMAL FT3 FT3, "EUTHYROID SICK SYNDROME" - HIGH RT3 IS CAUSED BY INFECTIONS, PHATOGENES, BACTERIA, PARASSITES, VERY LOW CALORIES INTAKE, EMOTIONAL STRESS AND INFLAMMATION MOST OF TIME. WHEN YOUR 5-&DEIODASE D2 STARTS TO CONVERT FASTELY T4 TO RT3 DURING THE TIME YOU WILL HAVE A RT3 PREPONDERANCE, THAT STIMULATES T4>RT3 CONVERSION EVEN MORE. YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THE ROOT CASE OF YOIR RT3 AND MOST OF THE CASE YOU NEED A T3 PROTOCOL TO FLUSHING OUT IT! THEN WHEN YOU WILL HAVE CLEARED YOUR RT3 AND YOU HAVE ADDRESSED THE ROOT CASE, YIU CAB USE T4/T3 COMBO OR NOT THYROID. HIGH RT3 MEANS THAT YOUR ENZIMES ARE WORKING IN A WRONG WAY NOT THAT YOUR THYROID IS THE PROBLEM GENERALLY. IF YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SPEAKING ABOUT, PLEASE STUDIED!
-DOCTOR. JHONE LOWE BOOK.
-THE TEMPERATURE SYNDROME BY DOCTOR WILSSON
-THE BOOKS BY PAUL ROBINSON.
HAVING ABOVE RANGE FT3 WHEN USE T3 ONLY AT REPLACEMENT DOSE IS THE NORMAL!!! I AM NOT HYPER AT ALL! TEMPS, BP, HR ARE PERFECT, I AM FUCTIONING BETTER NOW! I AM SOME HYPO SYMPTOMS YET DUE TO HIGH RT3.
PLEASE STUDY!
I DONT WANT TO DISCUSS WITH PEOPLE WHO DONT UNDERSTAND THIS DYNAMICS.. I FEEL EXPERIENCE AND FEEDBACK FROM WHO HAVE CLEARED.. THANKS.
I'm sure you know that expressing yourself with Caps Lock and lots of exclamation marks is the internet equivalent of shouting. Diverse opinions that are expressed respectfully will be received respectfully.
Also.. Rt3 MAKES YOU HYPO IF IT IS HIGH!! RT3 IS A SAFE MECCANISM TO MAKE LESS EFFECTIVE THE T3 EFFECT IN SOME SITUATIONS! RT3 IS MORE EFFECTIVE THAN ALL ANTI-THYROID DRUG ABOUT MAKING LESS EFFECTIVE THE T3!! YES T3 AND RT3 HAVE DIFFERENT NETABOLOSM AND CLEARANCE, RT3 HAS HIS ACTIVITIES AT CITOPLASM LEVEL, T3 ALSO AT NUCLEAR LEVEL IS A FACT THAT TOO HIGH RT3 MAKE YOU HYPO!
i Don’t think many people on here will have tried extreme t3 usage. It is a minority of people who go this way.
Paul Robinson uses about 50mcg t3 per day and feels very high doses are generally not needed.
I think more t3 is a flawed experiment and flushing the rt3 is a nonsense.
I myself have tried every protocol going and when on t3 only when I went past 60mcg t3 per day I was very unwell. I got up to 90mcg but finally realised that more didn’t help. I don’t have access to blood tests and so can only guess my rt3 system was just jamming up the whole feedback loop.
When someone is making high rt3 like you say you are the reason has to be excess thyroid meds or an inability to suck up the t3 and so the body thinks you have more t3 in the system than there actually is and so protects itself with rt3.
Your issue is ilkley to be a cortisol balance one (Paul Robinson feels his main issue is not enough cortisol to match his thyroid output. T4 for him seems to demand much more cortisol than the average person and his body just cannot match the demand and so t3 helps with this, but it has to be taken at these specific times to replicate nature).
Please do update this thread in the future if you find out what helps you. The idea of these sharing forums is to exchange knowledge and help one another. I am pretty sure you are on the wrong path focusing on rt3 specifically. I really don’t care about some poxy degree you have. Thyroid endos have a huge amount of education behind them but the reality is average patients on forums like this know much more than these educated twits.
It is very difficult to give advice without a history of your hypothyroidism, and blood results, Dawid86....for example full results from just taking Levothyroxine, and various T4 with T3 combined doses. Were you converting poorly; have you supplemented to get optimum folate, ferritin, vit D, B12 plus selenium etc? Does look to me like you are now overdoing the T3 dose massively (and were over back in September), and that your body was still creating some of its own T4 that was not needed for conversion to T3 due to this supplementation , so it might just have been converted to RT3 to get rid. I had a very odd situation on adding T3 to levothyroxin- although 25 mcg T3 was added, and I had reduced my T4 down(in a proportion regularly recommended on this forum, from 125 to 75 mcg) my FT3 also went down. We are all so different, so ‘one size does not fit all’. Have you any ‘proof’, like results, that you needed T3 only...i’d reduce it slowly back down again? Have you tried taking the T3 just in one daily dose to ‘flood’ the receptors?
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