T3 and T4 at the same time ?

[Philipp_Winsel]

Hello,

is it ok to take higher amounts of T3 at the same time with T4 ? I read a thread where one member said doing it this way could be a problem with reverse t3 ?

thanks

[radd]

Philipp,

The goal of medicating thyroid hormone replacement is to achieve a euthyroid state, which for some can only be achieved with the addition of T3. It is thought that T3 aids in the conversion of T4 (to additional T3) but to achieve this you require the correct ratio, which is individual to all.

What you don’t want is an excess of thyroid hormone that your body isn’t or can’t use. It appears some people may require more T3 than T4 and can take huge amounts of T3 with no negative consequence but for others elevated T3 levels can lead to other hormone imbalances.

For men elevated T3 levels can be just as damaging to androgens (male hormones) as too lower levels of thyroid hormone. The CT3M Handbook written by Paul Robinson advises on medicating T3 alone but also includes the pitfalls of elevated T3 levels.

[greygoose]

Not quite sure what you're asking, there. Higher levels of T3 than what? There's not reason why you shouldn't take your T3 with your T4 - both at the same time, or split.

It's high levels of FT4 that cause high rT3 - although that's not the only thing that can cause it. But, taking large doses of T3 does not raise rT3.

T4 is converted into T3 and rT3 - T3 cannot convert to rT3 - in more or less equal quantities in someone healthy. But, if you are hypo, and your T4 is not converting to T3 very well, it can mount up and start converting to too much rT3. Not sure if I've explained that very well, but…

[Philipp_Winsel in reply to greygoose]

One member said you should split T4 and T3 a couple hours apart. Reason being he said was that if you take it simultaneously, the body recognizes that he gets enough T3 and stops converting the T4 you’re taking to T3 but converts more of it to rt3.

[greygoose in reply to Philipp_Winsel]

Really? Well, I've never read that. Your sure it was a 'he'?

So, what do people who take combo pills and NDT do? They don't have any choice but to take the T4 and the T3 together.

Most people start taking T3, in whatever form, because they already have conversion problems. I've never heard it suggested that taking T3 creates conversion problems.

[Philipp_Winsel in reply to greygoose]

Could also be a female member, can’t say from the name.

Since I also heard this the first time I‘ll stick to my regimen and take it together once daily in the morning.

[Hidden in reply to Philipp_Winsel]

I have just been reading a book by Kenneth Blanchard MD a US doctor that treats the patient by how they feel, i.e. better of not.

He has had many success stories over many year of treating Hypothyroidism over 33 years. His approach is different he has T3 compounded into very small amounts of time released to be taken first thing, then an amount of Levo T4 to be taken at night. Although I take NDT he explains that the ratios are wrong for it to work long term.

[shaws Administrator in reply to Hidden]

Dr Lowe didn't agree with time-release T3 (he was also a scientist) as he said that T3 (he took it himself) had to saturate the T3 receptor cells and thereafter that one dose lasted between one to three days.

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

Yes I have read Dr Lowe this was just another MD successfully treating his own patients in a different way. He realize that only a small percentage of people would get well on T4 alone and over the years tried and tested with thousands of patients this method worked for most of them.

[shaws Administrator]

No it wont be a problem - we can take T4/T3 together. If we took NDT (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) it contains all of the hormones a healthy gland would produce.

Levothyroxine converts to RT3 and then into T3.

This is an explanation from an Adviser/scientist about RT3 and some are confused:-

"This is from Dr. Lowe:

"Dr. Lowe: Some readers will not be familiar with reverse-T3, and I know from experience that many others harbor misconceptions about the molecule. Because of this, I have summarized in the box below what we know about reverse-T3. I've answered your question below the summary.

Conversion of T4 to T3 and Reverse-T3: A Summary

The thyroid gland secretes mostly T4 and very little T3. Most of the T3 that drives cell metabolism is produced by action of the enzyme named 5'-deiodinase, which converts T4 to T3. (We pronounce the "5'-" as "five-prime.")

Without this conversion of T4 to T3, cells have too little T3 to maintain normal metabolism; metabolism then slows down. T3, therefore, is the metabolically active thyroid hormone. For the most part, T4 is metabolically inactive. T4 "drives" metabolism only after the deiodinase enzyme converts it to T3.

Another enzyme called 5-deiodinase continually converts some T4 to reverse-T3. Reverse-T3 does not stimulate metabolism. It is produced as a way to help clear some T4 from the body.

Under normal conditions, cells continually convert about 40% of T4 to T3. They convert about 60% of T4 to reverse-T3. Hour-by-hour, conversion of T4 continues with slight shifts in the percentage of T4 converted to T3 and reverse-T3. Under normal conditions, the body eliminates reverse-T3 rapidly. Other enzymes quickly convert reverse-T3 to T2 and T2 to T1, and the body eliminates these molecules within roughly 24-hours. (The process of deiodination in the body is a bit more complicated than I can explain in this short summary.) The point is that the process of deiodination is dynamic and constantly changing, depending on the body's needs."

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

I was just going to say that I take NDT and it has both.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Yes it has both but a pigs thyroid has a ratio of 4:1 humans have a ratio of 10:1. I take this too but over three years of improvement have never felt 100% well for even one day after 1107 days since my thyroidectomy.

I have no other health issues whatsoever so expected for feel about 85% most of the time and I stick rigidly to me medication dosage too.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Yes, that's right. There is some reason to believe that I convert poorly from T4 to T3, so perhaps that's why I do better with more T3 in my meds? I think we're all different and need to find what works for us.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I'm not convinced that being 100% restored to health is realistic. A med that we take once or more times per day is just never going to be able to recreate hormonal changes that our bodies naturally produce, sadly. Do you usually feel 85%? I think I probably do, too, now that my meds have been adjusted and had time to "settle".

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I agree I have been trying for three years now. I have no other health issues whatsoever and no thyroid so starting from scratch so to speak. If I can find

some T4 and I have T3 here I may try another method. I never visit the doctors

if I can help it so I have to source everything myself at the lowest cost.

I know that I will never bee 100% and realistically if I am honest I feel about 70% because of the tiredness, watch this space. After Christmas I will be on a mission to try this new method the MD states that our own bodies start producing the most T4 two hours before bedtime and just before we wake up. It is then turned into T3 later on when the body requires it. He states that only about 15 to 20% of people are good on T4 alone and that these are mostly younger people that do more exercise.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

That's very interesting information. Are you able to point me to that info? I'd like to follow it up. I wasn't well on T4 alone, and although I'd not say I'm 100%, I'm much better on NDT.