Arm weakness & slight woozy/dizzy sensation - hyperthyroid?

[DaveT81]

I just had a brief question: has anyone had (or are these symptoms of) hyperthyroid or over medicating?

Slightly woozy or dizzy at times, with arm/muscle weakness that slightly spreads to the shoulder blades.

[Rmichelle]

Hi yes ive had all of them end still get them at times, muscle weakness in my legs is a problem for me but i do not think its part of the meds just good old thyroid disease for me coupled with graves and hashis. However im on 2.5mgs every other day now and have noticed slight dizziness going down to this dose, carbi is a toxic med.😊

[DaveT81 in reply to Rmichelle]

Was blood rushing to head feeling Friday morning, then a kind of woozy feeling whenever I moved my head or eyes too fast in the evening. Woken up today with a slightly weak feeling in my arms and should blades, it isn't pleasant! Wasn't so long ago I was having to cure myself of vertigo..

I'm actually over-medicated on thyroxine at the moment, so am coming off that now. Was diagnosed as hypo a while ago but my TSH, T4 and T3 have recently gone the other way!

[greygoose]

Have you had your B12 and ferritin tested?

[DaveT81 in reply to greygoose]

I have, and both are within 'normal range'. Although, I know that normal range for many things in the UK is quite.. generous. And not in the patient's favour.

[shaws Administrator in reply to DaveT81]

Please post your latest results, with the ranges, for comments.

[greygoose in reply to DaveT81]

'Generous' is a very generous word! Down-right biased, I would say. Best to always post the actual numbers: results and ranges, so that we can have a look.

[DaveT81 in reply to greygoose]

Apologies, posting all now -

Ferritin - 84.5 ug/L (normal 30-400)

B12 - 116 pmol/L (normal 37.5-188)

TSH - 0.202 mIU/L (normal 0.27-4.20)

Free Thyroxine - 24.100 pmol/L (normal 12-22)

T3 - 6.82 pmol/L (3.10-6.80)

Thanks all,

Bearing in mind, I had those tests done over 1 week ago and continued on thyroxine 50mg until I saw my GP, so I imagine those thyroid levels have gone up a bit again since then.

Also, I'm on liquid iron supplements, and a vitamin B12 complex from Tesco. I had a single shot of B12 about 2 months ago.

[greygoose in reply to DaveT81]

A B complex from Tesco? Oh dear. That does sound ominous! Does it contain methylcobalamin (not cyanocobalamin) and methylfolate (not folic acid)? If not, it's no good. You'd to better to look on Amazon.

Are you going to have anymore B12 shots? Or was that a one-off? Your B12 is only just over mid-range. Do you have any other B12 deficiency-type symptoms?

I don't suppose your thyroid levels have gone up in one week on the same dose. Six weeks is about the limit for them increasing. They should then stay steady. But, they are quite high for someone on only 50 mcg levo. Do you have high antibodies?

Your ferritin could be a lot higher, given the range. I think I would point the finger at that as the culprit for your dizzy spells, personally. Have you had a full iron panel done?

[DaveT81 in reply to greygoose]

I haven't, no. I was looked at for anemia but it was decided that wasn't an issue as my levels were normal so that was bypassed.

I was initially on 25mg T for 4 weeks, then upped to 50mg for another 4.

Just the 1 B12 shot. I asked the GP if I'd need more and he said we'd take another look after I'd had the recent bloods done. He seemed happy enough that it was in the middle of that particular range but I feel that could still do with being higher to be honest.

The bit B supplement I was taking has gone in the bin, so can't check. I didn't even think to check it contained cobalamin. But that's just another one of the lovely symptoms I've been suffering - my memory and cognitive function are pretty poor at the moment. I've been off work for a while, and considering what I do (I'm a data manager), those 2 things are pretty important to what I do day-to-day!

Other major symptoms I've been suffering are breathing difficulties, a period of extreme weight loss that has levelled off, poor memory and concentration, dry skin (fingertips, particularly), exhaustion, sleep apnea-like symptoms and I'm also being treated for gastritis/reflux.

[humanbean in reply to DaveT81]

Ferritin - 84.5 ug/L (normal 30-400) This is only 14% of the way through the range.

I would be on my knees with a ferritin that low. I think you need to do a full iron panel. A finger-prick test for this, done without involving doctors, costs £39. It's well worth doing if it's affordable. Supplementing on just the basis of a ferritin test is not necessarily a good idea.

medichecks.com/iron-tests/i...

What supplement are you actually taking to improve your iron? And how much iron are you getting from it daily?

[DaveT81 in reply to humanbean]

Post iron panel above, turns out my memory has let me down again!

Also, I've been taking Spatone liquid iron supplement for about 2-3 weeks now, 'Iron (Fe2+) 5mg (36% NRV).

[humanbean in reply to DaveT81]

IRON - 28.06 umol/L (5.80 -34.50) This is 78% of the way through the range.

T.I.B.C - 64.56 umol/L (45.00 -72.00) This is 72% of the way through the range.

TRANSFERRIN SATURATION - 43.46 % (20.00 -50.00) This is 78% of the way through the range.

FERRITIN - 84.5 ug/L (30.00 - 400.00) This is 14% of the way through the range.

Your results are very, very similar to the results someone else posted a few days ago. I answered that, and everything I said to that person applies to you too. You'll find my reply on this thread :

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[DaveT81 in reply to humanbean]

Thanks, I have taken a look at that and I'm going to head in that direction!

[greygoose in reply to DaveT81]

How did they 'look at' you for anemia if they didn't do an iron panel? Do you at least know your iron level?

25 mcg T4? Or testosterone?

They are always happy when tests come back exactly mid-range. They seem to see that as some kind of victory. My dog's vet is the same. I expect you could have done with it higher.

So, if you've ditched the B complex, have you replaced it with a better one? Are you still having B shots? If so, you need a B complex - but a good one! Memory and cognitive function will be low if you have low B12.

Breathing difficulties could be due to hypo, low ferritin or low B12. Same with exhaustion. Sleep apnea is a hypo symptom.

So, how are they treating your reflux? Have they at least ascertained if you have high or low stomach acid first?

You didn't answer about the antibodies.

[DaveT81 in reply to greygoose]

Apologies, I'm trying to answer all of your questions on my phone and, as I said, memories not great at the moment. I'm on my laptop now, so can answer more thoroughly.

I was looked at for anemia but did have a full iron panel done, I have checked my medichecks and it was included in the WellMan UltraVit. So my most recent panel was:

IRON - 28.06 umol/L (5.80 -34.50)

T.I.B.C - 64.56 umol/L (45.00 -72.00)

TRANSFERRIN SATURATION - 43.46 % (20.00 -50.00)

FERRITIN - 84.5 ug/L (30.00 - 400.00)

I seem to remember when I first saw this GP it was all within range, as well.

Was initially on 25mg Thyroxine, then bumped to 50mg 1 month ago.

I'm looking to order a B12 sublinlingual that is 500mcg methylcobalamin per tablet.

With the reflux symptoms, the doc has me on esomeprazole 20mg twice a day, but upped those to 40mg twice a day on Thursday. He knows I'm uncomfortable with that as I don't want to be stuck on PPIs for life, but also because I suspect my problem is low stomach acid, not high. I work with gastroenterology dept. at work so I'm currently in discussions with a couple of colleagues to see if they can take a look at my symptoms and help with that. I'm going to go ahead and take the esomeprazole for a short while and see if it helps with a higher dose. I suspect it will help a few symptoms but essentially create more unwanted side effects. It's the one area I don't completely agree with him on, as he's just assumed it's high stomach acid (based on symptoms) and prescribed PPI. I'm almost entirely gluten free at the moment and I'm gradually cutting out a few other foods that seem to cause me issues such as milk, ice cream and some cheeses too.

Finally, had my thyroid antibodies done and they are:

THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODY - 14.900 IU/mL (0.00 - 115.00)

THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES - 9.12 IU/mL (0.00 - 34.00)

[greygoose in reply to DaveT81]

OK, so humanbean has given you a better answer than I can on the subject of your iron/ferritin. But, I do think your doctor could have been more thorough. Black mark to him!

Same goes for your stomach acid! It's really wrong of them to prescribe PPIs as easily and carelessly as they do, knowing the possible harm they can do. If you are hypo then your stomach acid is more likely to be low than high, but the symptoms are the same. You could do a home test on your stomach acid, as described at the bottom of this article:

scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/3-...

500 mcg is a very small dose of B12. Most people take at least 1000 mcg. 500 probably won't do much for you. But, you will still need a good B complex because the Bs all work together and need to be kept balanced. Just taking B12 on its own, won't help you much, either.

OK, so your antibodies are negative, but that doesn't prove you don't have Hashi's. If your levels jump around a lot, then you probably do. Ever had an ultrasound?

[DaveT81 in reply to greygoose]

haha, funnily enough I actually tried the bicarb test not so long ago and didn't burp once when trying in 5 times over 7 days. I'm going to wait to speak to my gastro colleague about that though, as if they can help somewhat I can return to my GP with new information and we can change things up re: the medication. Besides anything, I'm planning to just stop if it causes me any issues.

Thanks for letting me know that, I'll look at B complexes, as opposed to just B12 and see what's out there.

Re: the ultrasound, I've not actually had one but it's the only thing I haven't had done in the past 2 months! As the breathing issue was my biggest problem, I have had a gamut of investigations done privately (had money lying around as we had to cancel our summer hol) heart echo, CT of neck, chest and abdomen, spirometry (twice), chest x-ray but no ultrasound. All returned normal, with nothing concerning showing on any one.

[greygoose in reply to DaveT81]

I very much doubt your doctor would know what to do about low stomach acid.

For the best choice of B complexes try Amazon. Igennus is a good brand.

Well, the ultrasound probably won't give you any clues about the breathlessness. It could just tell you if you have Hashi's.

Doctors always associate breathlessness with heart problems, and find it difficult to consider any other cause. But breathlessness can be caused by many things, and having low iron, low B12 and low thyroid hormones, I would be surprised if you didn't have breathing problems!

[DaveT81 in reply to greygoose]

I know, I've seen so many people being put on PPIs for reflux/gastritis type symptoms without doing proper groundwork. Funnily enough, I've found that taking a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in a glass of water before eating really helps reduce bloating. Apparently, this would suggest a lack of stomach acid too!

That was actually the reason for all of the scans, etc. to get to the bottom of the breathlessness but that has seemingly cleared heart or lung issues from the list. At least obvious problems anyway.

Based on what humanbean (is that a reference to Community, btw?) has said, I think I'll forego the iron supplementation for now and head for the B complexes instead. I'll check that particular one on Amazon when I get back home later.

[greygoose in reply to DaveT81]

A tsp of ACV in water before eating, is what is often suggested on here to counter-act low stomach acid. So, a good thing to replace the PPI.

Based on what humanbean (is that a reference to Community, btw?)

Sorry, I have no idea what you mean, there.

[DaveT81 in reply to greygoose]

Yeah, I actually found it help a quite a lot. Funnily enough, if I take it before meals too many times in one day, I end up with reflux-like symptoms.

Sorry that was more a question toward humanbean. In the American sitcom Community, the college mascot is named human bean.

[greygoose in reply to DaveT81]

Oh, OK. Well, HB probably wouldn't be looking on here anymore, so wouldn't have seen it. But, you could alert her by putting @ in front of her name, and then clicking on her name in the menu that pops up - humanbean . I don't know if that show is on in the UK, it certainly isn't here in France, that's why I didn't know what you were talking about.

[humanbean]

I get the symptoms you mention when I'm under-medicated for hypothyroidism and/or low in iron or ferritin.

[humanbean]

Someone who appears to be suffering from hyperthyroidism could be in one of these situations :

1) You can be hypothyroid and over-medicated.

2) You can be hypothyroid but have apparent hyperthyroid blood test results because you're going through a temporary Hashi's flare.

3) You can be hyperthyroid.

4) Your cortisol and/or adrenaline levels may be too high or too low.

All these situations could give you lots of symptoms of hyperthyroidism - but you wouldn't necessarily be hyperthyroid.

There is a big difference in what the thyroid is doing (or what is happening to the thyroid) under these different circumstances, what options you have to make yourself feel better than you do, what treatment options you have, and what will happen to your thyroid in the future.

Please note that low nutrient levels may give symptoms that overlap with those of thyroid disease of any kind, and low nutrient levels are found in almost everyone with a thyroid problem. Hypothyroid people can't absorb nutrients very well from their diet, and hyperthyroid people "use up" nutrients they absorb too quickly because their metabolism is running too fast.

[DaveT81 in reply to humanbean]

So then, I could possibly be hypo and be having a Hashi's flare or over-medicated. I hadn't considered that. I feel a bit more reading on my behalf is needed.

It is all very new to me, and I'm left a bit disheartened sometimes because a lot of information you read (talking in a general sense here) seems contradictory, but makes sense too. And I seem to keep developing new symptoms/side effects on an almost weekly basis at the moment!

[humanbean in reply to DaveT81]

I can suggest a good book. It's very readable :

amazon.co.uk/Your-Thyroid-H...

If you're interested, make sure you buy the latest, second edition. Make sure that you do a thorough check on all the prices quoted for the book. There are quite a few entries for this book and some people charge huge amounts, with no justification that I can see.

Another site worth looking at is :

thyroidpharmacist.com/

The owner of the site has also written a couple of books that get good reviews (I've never read them, so can't comment on them).

[DaveT81]

Hahahaha, sorry that last paragraph was brilliant! haha. That's my point really, I love and appreciate all the advise but it comes thick and fast so it's hard to know who to believe or trust, and there's so much information to read through that it can be quite overwhelming.

I'm not all that stressed to be honest. A lot of my symptoms had been ongoing since last March, and the gastro issues began in February. The main symptom - breathing problems that can be quite severe began about 3 months ago. I was actually in the process of training for a 5K at the time and it started about 6 weeks in. To the point where I could barely walk up 2 flights of stairs without gasping and panting for breath. I'm 37 by the way, and was probably the fittest I'd been in 10 years, plus things were going well on the job front, we had a big holiday planned. So I was feeling pretty positive about life in general.

Things deteriorated pretty quickly from there and I've now been off work for over a month. I do GET stressed, but mainly about my symptoms and particularly when new and fun ones come out the blue!

[DaveT81]

So, I had a delivery today of the B Complex from Amazon that greygoose kindly suggested. The joys of Prime next day delivery!

My question is - along with the B Complex, and based on the results above, is there anything else any of you very well informed contributors could suggest in terms of additional supplements?

Also, just FYI due to the fact I also have afib (cardio ablation for it 18 months ago) I am supplementing with taurine, l-arginine, magnesium and sometimes potassium based on some great advice from the people over at afibbers.org. As mentioned above I had been taking Spatone liquid iron for about 3 weeks too.

Thanks, all..