Trying very hard to avoid direct political comment, the following might be recognised by many of you, but it is posted as a general comment:
On Monday night, <a former MP> replied: “What a pathetic cretin.” The tweet drew widespread condemnation, including from <otherwise like-minded> MPs, coming on a day when Theresa May warned MPs not to use violent or offensive language as passions run high.
It is so very difficult to decide whether I am more offended by his use of the word, or by his ignorance which demonstrates he doesn't understand why it is so offensive.
Many of the words used in my youth were deeply unpleasant and offensive but have since been recognised for what they are. This word should also be removed from use as a jibe.
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helvella
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For people who didn't know, the word "cretin" used to be the official term used for people with congenital hypothyroidism. I have no idea whether doctors still use it in a medical context at all.
Cretinism is a congenital condition caused by a deficiency of thyroid hormone during foetal development. Cretinism is characterised in childhood by dwarfed stature, mental retardation, dystrophy of the bones and a low basal metabolism.
I used to teach the seven year olds in my class that if you can’t say anything good about someone or something then don't say anything at all. Also ‘that’s interesting’ is a pretty good neutral comment if you have to say something.
I saw this on twitter, & sometimes it's impossible not to be political. So much malice, & so few morals. I hope he's never voted in again.
Interesting point, Helvella. It led to a train of thought, as it tends to with me. So I hope nobody finds my comments offensive
"Cretinism" need not be used in a derogatory way. Basically it is a description of a serious medical condition. But, because that condition makes people slow in body and mind, to call someone "A cretin" - meaning slow and stupid - is very offensive.
It can also be offensive to categorise or identify a person by what is wrong with them. A friend of mine, who is also a nurse, had a very difficult birth experience with her youngest child. One of the hospital staff (can't remember if it was a doctor or a nurse) introduced her to a colleague by saying "This is the perineal haematoma". My friend, though in intense pain, and semi aware because of a high does of painkillers, still managed to object, "I'm not a perineal haematoma, I'm a person!!!"
On the other hand, political correctness can be rather extreme at times.
I went to a training session with work once, which was taken by a blind lady. Very interesting, but she said we should never use the term "Handicapped" as it was offensive ("Cap-in-hand"), which had never occurred to me. OK, it may be politer to call someone disabled - though some object to that as well. But to me the most important thing is one's attitude to a person, not the actual words used. When I worked in a psychiatric home there was one patient - a very nice man who suffered with severe schizophrenia. His idea of a friendly greeting was "Hello, you old B..." I hate that word, (the ruder of the two "Bs" but he didn't mean it offensively, so how could one object?
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"a very nice man who suffered with severe schizophrenia"
I would never refer to him as "A schizophrenic". In fact, once spoke of him to a colleague as "My pal Brian"!
Likewise, saying that someone "Suffers from cretinism" might be acceptable, but not as "That cretin"
"The use of the term to describe a person with a disability—by extension from handicap racing, a person carrying a heavier burden than normal—appeared in the early 20th century" makes more sense to me.
If true, it is also complimentary rather than offensive. It acknowledges that someone has difficulties that most don't have, but shows respect for them as an individual.
A disabled (or handicapped?) man who used a wheelchair apparently wrote a book called "Does he take sugar?" because of the way people tended to talk to his carer rather than him, even though he was not mentally disabled.
I used to work for the Alzheimer's Society, and even people with dementia are often far more aware than we may realise, and need to feel included in conversation even if (in the later stages) neither understands a word of what the other is saying. Whatever the disability, the aim is to feel accepted and respected.
Sorry, this is a hobby horse of mine, but better shut up, especially as it's rather off topic.
Well, the whole thread is off-topic, really. But, your mention of that book reminded me of an recent incident demonstrating that old people can also be treated like that.
Now, I'm 73, and I suppose I look it. But despite my hypothyroidism, I pride myself I still have all my wits around me. A few weeks ago, I went to a barbeque with my daughter, held by some of her friends. She introduced me to everyone as, Grey, her mother. During the meal, I was sitting with my daughter on one side, and a lady I'll call X on the other. She talked down to me the whole time, asking if the samosa weren't too spicy for poor little me, and could I speak a little French? This after about half an hour's conversation! Then she leaned right across me to speak to my daughter. "How old is your mummy?" she asked, in a soppy voice. The man opposite must have caught the expression on my face, because he started laughing. So, I said to X, "Hey, you could ask me, you know. I'm sitting right next to you!" And the whole table burst into laughter.
I don't know which expletive I would apply to that woman - (probably 'stupid female bovine', I don't think that is politically incorrect, is it?) - but quite a few passed through my mind. And, the worst of it is, she couldn't understand what she'd done wrong!
My mother was I think in her late 70s when she had a cataract operation. She had been to have her eyes checked umpteen times over the 13 years waiting for it to get "Ripe", so she knew the ropes. She was a very clever lady and a voracious reader, though had to leave school early without any qualifications because of having myxoedema (that at least is on topic, lol)! But to look at her (she had a slight head tremor) you might not have realised she was that bright or with it.
After the op she went to the hospital for a check up and the nurse was incredibly condescending. Called her by her first name, and then told her to look at the "Pretty blue light" while checking her eyes - as if she was a small child.
I was furious, though didn't say anything until we got outside! I wanted to write and complain, but my mother saw the funny side and just laughed.
"Pretty blue light" eventually became a catchword and never failed to make us laugh
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And now I'm getting on a bit myself I begin to find that younger shop assistants (the nice ones anyway) are starting to narrow their eyes in sympathy if I fumble a bit getting my purse out or something. And of course being hypothyroid doesn't help as it makes you slower in mind, body and speech anyway
Oh, I know! And these Euros I have to deal with are very difficult to read in dim light, which makes it worse. So, I always hand over a note, and don't even try to give the right amount. So, I end up with a purse bulging with 'coppers'! lol
That is awful! How dare that nurse treat a patient like that, even if the patient's intellect was damaged. Everyone should be treated with respect to their face, if not behind their back!
Probably not in those days - about 40 years ago. The cataract operating techniques have improved a lot. I think they had to wait till the lens had hardened enough to avoid the risk of losing bits when they tried to remove it.
My grandfather, MUCH longer ago - probably more like 70 years - apparently had his cataracts done by "Needling". They couldn't remove the lens so they used to push a needle through to make a hole in the lens that the patient could see through!!!
I recall reading about the Dr.who established modern cataract surgery. He was treating injured RAF pilots in WW2 and noted that those who had bits of cockpit plastic in their eyes suffered no infections etc.
Not being an eye surgeon he and a student had to develop the idea of using plastic lenses in secret .We know how medics treat upstarts from other silos.
He was recognised by Norway ( I think) before the UK !
Fascinating, I didn't know that! My mother had the operation not that long before they began to use plastic lenses, but she was amazed at the difference it made "Everything looks so bright and clean"
Yikes! The first one I had done nearly 30 years ago and had a needle used for the anaesthetic and that was painful ,the operation was no problem.20 years on anaesthetic drops were used .Joy .I was out of the hospital in 30 minutes.
I’ll be 70 in December and I think if I hear - among other terms that I try to ignore - ‘bless you’, ‘aw, bless’ ‘lovely’, I even got ‘there you are beautiful’ the other day can you believe it - anyway next sales assistant who says it, I swear Ill be like the old granny in the Giles cartoons and deck whoever says it.
I don’t live in an area where that sort of thing is normal everyday language and I know it’s probably very petty but it drives me mad and to be honest it’s something that has always irritated me even when I was young and witnessed it happening to other older people.
Same with doctors etc in hospitals etc using my Christian name. Just stick with Mrs X and keep to the appointment times and we will get on fine.
Yes, I know what you mean. I had to stop buying my bread in the boulangerie just opposite me, because the woman in there insisted on calling me 'young lady', rather than 'madam'! It was just so insulting, as if I was too senile to know I was old. And as for people that insist on calling me 'mamie' (grandma), they're lucky to still be alive. Why do people think this is alright? They even seem to believe they're being nice to you. Well, my only consolation is that, one day, they're going to find out just how 'nice' it is!
Ohhh! I've never heard that before - 'auld wifie'. Sorry, but that's funny - although I wouldn't want to be called that myself!
No, mamie is not an honorific term. It just means 'you're so old and insignificant I can't be bothered to remember your name'!
In hospital, the rules say that nursing staff are forbidden to call their elderly patients 'mamie', but it doesn't stop some of them! I just reply 'I am not your grandmother - thank god!'
Remember when we were kids, you could pull rank if you were older than someone else? I still remember how cross I was when a patronising little girl who had attained the superior age of six years said to me "You're five aren't you?" I said indignantly, "No I'm not, I'm five and three quarters!"
And now we get patronised by YOUNGER people instead!!!!
I'm also 73 and don't do "old"...iffy health yes but I see "old" as a state of mind!
Someday, after encounters with a few feisty women with life experience, the insufferable X will maybe understand!
A student friend of mine back in the dark ages used to continually mutter, "Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"....pity for X that she removed all doubt!
That bombastic historian who is obsessed with Queen Liz1 -Starkey (that took some digging) - has a problem with his leg and likes to use the word cripple. He thinks it is a good old fashioned word that does an excellent job and it’s his leg 😳 he has got into trouble with some un pc stuff he came out with about urban patoire. He does do a brilliant job of his historical programmes very gripping.
A bipolar pal of mine likes to be called a nut 😳
Whether they prefer those terms or not most people would never dream of using either me included.
The use of cretin as abuse has always been on the nasty side even when I was a kid many moons ago and ought to be unacceptable except as a medical descriptor in the appropriate context. Most certainly not coming out of an MP’s mouth - very disrespectful
Seems we are voting in a load of uncouth folk given the comments reported re the PM by her own party members. Regardless that I think ,like them ,that she is determinedly making a hash of the negotiations, it is no way to talk about your leader.Probably helped her gain sympathy unlike the intentions of these ignorant MPs.
Was that said this Monday night? It’s maybe deja vue but I thought it wasn’t all that long ago someone was in trouble for using that same term. It is so offensive, I mean don’t these people actually know what the term means. Hopefully someone will spell out them why this is so offensive! Imagine people like that running the country.
Wow, what a load of old/young/middle-aged moaners - hopefully I said that in sufficiently an inclusive way as to not leave any one out, not misrepresent anyone and drive their blood pressure even higher, whilst nevertheless ensuring my own frustration with this thread is shared equally across you all. Looks like lots of wrong sides of beds were got out of this morning.
Returning to the original post; my starting point in response, is that language is a means of communication, and whilst it has rules of construction, is nevertheless much more free form in application. So what is acceptable or not, may vary a great deal from person to person, age range to age range, life experience, situations ...... The problem is, as with everything humans get their hands on, that what started out as a valid and laudable desire to not treat any person less fairly than another, has turned into a societal malaise whereby anyone can be "triggered" by the most innocent or innocuous - or even imaginary - thing; such that real hurt is actually lost in the melee whilst the language police get on with their locking down of anything that they themselves don't like or take offence by. When I was expecting my second child shortly after my diagnosis, concerns were expressed that as I had not been optimally medicated there was a risk my child might be born a cretin. I didn't take offence to that as at the time cretinism was the label given to a recognised inborn condition and it needed no more explanation than that. In fact, it was far better than a softer, less direct term because we could all cut to the chase and do what we needed to do. But I can almost hear all the sharp intakes of breath about such a word being used to a pregnant woman. There are now much more acceptable and accurate terms for cretinism, most probably there's a multiplicity of them in every shade of grey; and the term cretin is obviously now more used to express frustration at the idiocy of another person rather than have any real connection to a genetic disorder, and it needs to be taken as such. If I call someone a fool am I expressing frustration at their behaviour or accusing them of being a court jester? Was it sensible or appropriate for that politician, whoever they were, to use that terms in that situation , clearly not - not least because one criterion that defines a professional is the use of a professional lexicon & phraseology. However, does it warrant a thread in a thyroid forum? To my mind, no. I'm with Stephen Fry when he said “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f**cking what." (The asterisks are mine, to avoid offending even more sensibilities).
Agree, although for myself, I'm not so much concerned that the phrase was expressed by a politician, as it would no doubt incur the wrath of those excessively bothered by such things even had it been said by one of the Kardashians or some such. What concerns me more is the exponential growth in societal "snowflake, safe-place, my rights to be offended trump your rights to free speech, as do my rights to be vicariously offended on the part of others I deem to be in urgent need of my highly attuned I'm Being Offended radar" way of thinking.
A Mongol is a member of an East-Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia and some parts of China & Russia. Modern-day Mongols are referred to as Proto-Mongols. So does their right to be recognised as Mongols trump the right of Europeans many many miles away to be offended by the nomenclature, and stamp it out of existence?
"We were always the first to recognise non-PC words" is a telling and chilling phrase that makes my blood run cold.
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need ammunition to stop Endo reducing my T3
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Very well worth seeing Dr. B her willingness to take the time and interest in my health and interest in the petitions 100% .
Fortunate people!
