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How Statins Cause Heart Problems

How Statins Cause Heart Problems

realfarmacy.com/statin-scam...

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That's interesting Grey, I will read it again tomorrow as I'm dozing off here trying to read it properly. I was put on a statin last October after a cardiac 'event'. Initially given 80mg of Atorvastatin, no choice. I've been offered statin twice over the last 3 years because of my 'raised' cholesterol level which was just above 5 one year, but I refused them.

I took the 80mg for about 8 weeks when I saw a cardiologist for a follow up since the 'event'. He said they couldn't give a definitive answer as to what had happened to me, could have been this, could have been that. The only definitive thing was that my Troponin level rose considerably over a period of 48 hours which indicates something cardiac related happening. In view of what he said, I asked why was I given 2 blood thinners and a very high dose of statin. He conceded slightly and said I could drop one blood thinner at 3 months and reduced the statin by half. GP has since said I MUST stay on statin to prevent heart issues recurring!

Statins are also given to stabilise arterial plaque, it's a 2nd function they have. But I had an angiogram in October 17 while I was in hospital and arteries showed 'clear' so very low level of plaque.

Really I'd like to try and get off them (and the remaining aspirin) but who really knows which is right and which is wrong. Prior to hospital visit in October, my previous cholesterol test in April 17 showed cholesterol at 4.9 and all HDL LDL and Triglycerides in perfect ratio.

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High cholesterol is a hypo symptom. Being hypo can affect your heart. You would be far better off on a decent dose of thyroid hormone, than a statin! But, doctors get commission for prescribing statins, so they'd like everyone to take them! They also get their education from Big Pharma sales reps, who want to sell them statins. I know who I believe.

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greygoose

Like you always say BIG PHARMA has interest in keeping society sick . A pill for everything . It's called M-O-N-E-Y .

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GG, just to clarify, as far as I was concerned, my cholesterol level wasn't 'high' Whilst it was just over 5 in 2016 when I was first offered statins (and declined) this was only just above the NICE guideline at the time.

Oddly enough when I got the 4.9 result (so under 5) I'd modified my diet inline with principles from a book about reducing blood glucose level (that was creeping up) and reduced (not removed) carbohydrates and increased fats considerably.

Unfortunately when I was first given these medications, I was in an extremely vulnerable state in hospital at breaking point emotionally. My husband took me to A&E as I'd had brief pains in the centre of my chest while at work. I ignored them, went home via the Post office to post a letter. While sitting at home looking at my laptop, I realised I had intense pain in my left arm. The two symptoms rang an alarm bell, hence we went to A&E. Thinking we'd probably be on our way home within a couple of hours.

I had an ECG which revealed a small abnormality, but this was deemed to be nothing to worry about. Had a chest X-ray which was deemed OK. Then a nurse came towards me with a pot with 4 tablets in and asked me to 'take my medication' I asked her why she was giving it to me and what the tablets were. It was Clopidogrel, a blood thinner, but not just the standard 75mg dose, she gave me 4 of those tablets and a soluble aspirin. Then they explained about the Troponin level which had risen from where it should be. By this time I was in rather a state. Next I was put in a wheelchair and taken to the acute admissions ward and shown a bed! No one had said then that I would be staying in.

Once in bed (husband had to go home and get things for me) a nurse then came and gave me an injection in my abdomen which I learned was Fundaparinox, another blood thinner!

All medication repeated again next day before the angiogram, including another Fundaparinox injection, then given the statin. The problem in hospital is they just don't expect you to ask what the meds are, they expect you to just dutifully take them 'like a good girl' but I'd have to say at that time I was petrified. Concerned that I may have blocked arteries, thankfully I didn't have. My husband had by pass surgery when he was 45 which was totally unexpected, but found out that he has an inherited condition which means his LDL receptors don't process cholesterol correctly (known as FH) so he does have to have a statin, otherwise he would be heading for another by pass.

I asked one of the GPs a couple of weeks ago whether there would be a possibility of at least reducing the statin. He the cardiology department would not allow this, given my 'heart attack'. I told him the cardiologist told me I didn't have a heart attack, he said that wasn't what was in the information they had. All rather confusing and at some point I will ask to see the cardiologist again!

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But, even if you'd had a heart attack, the statin wouldn't do anything for you, that's the point. Cholesterol doesn't cause heart attacks. Therefore reducing it isn't going to stop you having another one. It's just a big money-maker for Big Pharma, profiting from scared people that they've totally mis-lead up the garden path. And your GP should be ashamed of himself for buying into it. But, just because he says you have to take it, doesn't mean you do.

I know what you mean about hospitals. Much the same happened to me a few years ago. I was rushed to hospital with something that had absolutely nothing to do with my heart, but at the hospital they decided I had a slight arrhythmia - well, the state I was in, it wouldn't have been surprising! But, slightest whiff of a heart problem and they go into panic mode, and - like you - I found myself in a hospital bed. I had about 20 drips! But, as I was completely out of it, I neither knew nor cared what they were, and nobody thought to inform me, except for the morphine and antibiotic. Fortunately, a few days before being taken to hospital, I'd had a blood test where the cholesterol had come back so low that the lab had marked that I was in danger of a heart attack, so they didn't put me on statins!

After a week, the drips were removed and replaced with a mountain of pills. After another week, I got home and started doing some research. I found I was taking a beta blocker, a PPI, aspirin, a blood thinner and a couple of other things I can't remember. I saw the specialist and explained to him that I had asthma so I shouldn't be on BBs, and they made me very ill. He didn't care, he just said take them! So, I said, sod that! And I stopped the lot and never went back to see the specialist again! I don't believe I have a heart problem. I've never had any symptoms. They did at least two ECGs a day in the hospital, and it never showed a problem. My blood doesn't clot easily, I bleed profusely at the slightest little thing, and as I often get nose bleeds, I was terrified of bleeding to death with the blood thinner! And I certainly don't need a PPI! But, they didn't care about any of that. They just wanted me to take all these awful pills. So, I said no.

Now, that's me. I'm an awkward sod. And I wouldn't advise anyone to do what I did - this was in 2013, by the way, and I'm still alive! But, when it comes to statins, that's something else. They could very well harm you, but they will never do you any good what so ever. And, I think you should think very seriously about taking them, and do your own research. The cholesterol won't kill you, but the statins very well might!

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True. I had high cholesterol when I was only 19 years old. Slim but neck already swollen and showing hypo symptoms.

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GG is right - high cholesterol is a symptom. According to Dr Malcolm Kendrick and his cholesterol sceptic colleagues, there is no evidence that statins benefit women of any age, even those with confirmed CVD. But they can still do harm.

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Hi Georgina. Just refuse to take them. A doctor cannot MAKE you do anything you choose not to allow. It is your body and no one has the right to invade it in any way if you say No. This includes medical procedures, meds, treatments, etc. When you say NO then the person who persists is, IMO, assaulting you. We understand this concept re other non-medical situations as women but rarely do we include unwanted medical care in the same light. These same boundaries apply to medical situations as well. Think about it. It's hard to stand up to doctors sometime but in today's medical world it is important to learn to be your own advocate. Just my own belief but don't be intimidated by someone because they may have more letters after their name than you. If you decide you want to take them, that's valid but it needs to be your decision not just the doctors. Part of his/her job is to work WITH you. Take care. irina1975

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Well said, irina!

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Thank you. Reading between the lines was a big part of this post as I was trying to be 'politically correct!. Not always easy for me.

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Irina, unfortunately at the time I was in an extremely vulnerable condition, emotionally drained and unable to protest. I've just replied above to GG with a little story - well a rather long story! :-)

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Rereading this thread, I should have added there are times we all are vulnerable, feeling bad and are just not able to stand up to the onslaught of medical care coming at us. So we do our best when we can. As 'mouthy and pushy' as I can sometimes be there are times I just went along with the program. Sometimes, when I have been too sick to stand up for myself I try to bring a friend or family member to advocate for me. Doesn't always work. My family can turn into wusses when paired against the medical establishment. I don't have answers except I'm revising my medical power of attorney to be REALLY airtight and specific re my medical wishes. It isn't enough anymore to just have a DNR order. Too many loopholes. For those interested, I'll share a book that is helping me with this process. I got it as part of a package offered on Public Television after watching the author's program. I think Amazon carries it. It's easy reading, a paperback and reasonably short: "I'LL HAVE IT MY WAY"; Taking control of End-of-Life Decisions. A Book About Freedom and Peace by Hattie Bryant hattie@IllHaveitMyWay.com irina

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That's very interesting Irina and I shall take a look at the book, maybe by a copy.

Interestingly, I went to one of the GPs last Friday for what has really transpired to be anxiety related symptoms and I believe some of it stems from my cardiac incident last year and some from the stress of the job I was in which I eventually left end of January. My husband came with me as I was rather distressed. I'd had some pains in my legs during the night and had mentioned to my husband wonder if it could be statin related as it can be a side effect. Though I've been taking them since October and not really had that before. But the GP actually said this out loud too.

He was the one I saw when I first went to the GP after my hospital admission, so he is aware of the background of that incident. We discussed the fact that the cardiologist said to me in November that they really couldn't define what had happened to me and I had replied 'so if you can't say what it was, why have I been given 3 medications to take'. The cardiologist had said it's a bit of a 'belt and braces' approach, but agreed that I could reduce the statin dose by half (I was given 80mg!) and after 3 months I could stop the 2nd blood thinner (Clopidogrel, an aggressive form of aspirin).

But the GP I saw seems to be a bit of a 'renegade' in some respects and he said he feels I could probably come of the statin, given that the incident wasn't defined, but he will review that in a few weeks.

With regard to the anxiety he prescribed an anti depressant which is also used for anxiety. I said I didn't really want to go that route as that would mean being on them probably at least 6 months and a very long tailing off to get off them, for something which isn't happening every day. He mentioned the state I was in sitting in front of him and that I'd been before recently with anxiety. So I meekly agreed that I needed to do 'something' He also suggested counselling might be useful and gave me the number of the 'wellbeing' service. This service, I know, has a waiting time for an appointment of 3 to 6 months. I took the prescription and we picked up the tablets on the way home. My husband then went off to work and I did google the AD to check on side effects. If i was going to get side effects, I'd rather know beforehand what they are. But what I found wasn't good at all.

I started looking around for private counsellors and actually found a lady who lives in the same village as me and booked an appointment for Monday (had that one and booked another for tomorrow) but somehow I managed to get control of myself during that day and gradually started to sleep through most of the night over the weekend. The threat of taking those tablets was enough at the moment to persuade me to try and self help!

I now have a job interview tomorrow and another one Friday and can feel a bit of anxiety brewing, but trying to adopt some techniques I've learned from the counsellor and also a lovely yoga teacher I saw yesterday for a relaxation session.

Apologies for the long reply! :-)

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Good morning, Georgina. It's 7am here, not really totally mentally awake. My routine is get my coffee and ease into the morning. Then I write posts and responses when my mind is more alert. LOL. I have a lot I want to respond tp re your info but will do it later this morning. But I felt this couldn't wait. So, for now, I just want to say: Think long and hard before starting those antidepressants. Look for a more involved response later. There is a lot of good info in your post. Later, gator. (americanese). irina

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How lovely Irina, you can message me if it's more personal or reply here if you feel it may be helpful to others.

When I was little we used to use that gator phrase, but it had a response the other person could use:-

'See you later alligator'

'With a smile crocodile' :-)

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You're right. I forgot that! Thanks for the memory. I still use later gator a lot but maybe thyroid brain fog caused my memory lapse.LOL

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Hi Georgina. I re-read the thread re statins with all our responses. One of the problems with medicine, IMO, is there is sometimes 'too much prevention." It's always better to take less meds than more. And too many meds are given 'to prevent' side effects. PPI's are one that comes to mind. Yes, some meds cause stomach upset but if you don't develop this side effect why take a drug you may not need. And PPI's are NOT harmless. They come with their own set of side effects. I'm not sure what your final diagnosis was after your A&E visit but even if it was heart related a good doctor won't pile all those new meds on you at once. For one thing, how will he/she know which may be causing problems. Also, if a nurse brings in meds and you don't know what they are or why you need them, you can always say you don't want to take them until you speak with your doctor. She may say you have to but that makes her life easier. If you refuse, she has to get the meds back to pharmacy, chart that you refused and why, unchart that she administered (because many of us chart as we're preparing the meds assuming the patient will take them-saves time.) She has no power to make you do anything; neither do any doctors. Back to the nurse. Of course she will do her best to get you to swallow your pills because otherwise her paperwork load just increased. Not your problem. One rule I always follow and encourage all patients to adopt is to never take a pill that is not handed to you still in its labelled packaging (here-US- it is usually in a single dose peelpak). I know nurses try to organize their time-been there- so when I first arrive for treatment and am answering questions I tell the nurse I will not accept unlabelled pills. I think it's a courtesy to give her a heads up about my boundaries and not waste her time. After that it's up to her. About the elevated troponin levels. One of the things that scares most patients into meekly going along with whatever the caregivers want is to hear there is a problem with their heart. Doctors know this and often use it to their advantage. I did some research this morning and found several articles about elevated troponin levels. Troponin is a protein released into the blood when heart muscle is damaged. That was the original reason for elevations. But recent research is beginning to show there are other causes for elevation; such as physical exercise in healthy patients, some medications, and even anxiety. When I first was dx with a-fib I can't tell you how many times I went to the ER for what I thought was a heart problem and was actually anxiety. Yes, my troponins were always elevated and no, I've never had a heart attack. Re cholesterol, Greygoose is right on the money in her posts about cholesterol. And cholesterol is turning out not to be the villain we have been led to believe. Even if it is higher than it should be there are many foods that will help lower it without statins. I have consistently refused them. Early on on my afib I had one cardiologist who was so statin fixated I dreaded every visit because I knew the 'statin skirmish' was coming. My EP went to bat for me and I dropped the statin doctor. If it were me I would sit down, look up side effects for your meds and use them as a basis for a conversation with your doctor. If he pushes you to take them and you aren't buying into his reasons, refuse. It's your right. Now re antidepressants. Not every episode of depression requires medication. Depression is an emotion like all our other emotions. Sometime our situation warrants our feeling down. It may not warrant taking a drug long term which may not help over time, and may require weaning off. If your problem is anxiety, antidepressants are not the solution. I take a small dose of antianxiety med if I need it but it is specific for my problem. And I don't take it if it's not necessary. Also there are more long term side effects from many antidepressants that have taken years to show up in patient populations. I belong to the HU restless legs forum. I also was on Prozac for years until I decided they weren't helping and took myself off. Now it's known that SSRI's (Prozac is in this category) makes rls worse. I'll stop now. I'm on a tear. Just be slow and thoughtful, do your research and ask your questions when you are offered medication. None are harmless, all have side effects, and if they are too new on the market there is no info on long-term effects. Take care. xx Later gator! irina

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Lots of interesting things here, thank you.

Firstly, I understand what you're saying about refusing the meds when the nurse brought them, but at the time, I was extremely distressed, but also had fleeting thoughts that perhaps there was a clot lurking or blocked arteries and thought I might be taking a risk not to take the blood thinners.

Next, yes other things can cause a rise in Troponin. When I saw the cardiologist for follow up in November, he said there were other things which could cause the rise such as a high spike in blood pressure. I had been under huge pressure at work the day I had the symptoms and wouldn't be surprised if my BP had been raised, even though I'm also taking a medication to regulate that.

Next, the anti depressant I was prescribed last week, was prescribed for it's anti anxiety properties, rather than depression, but I have not actually taken those so far.

I used to have bouts of Atrial Fibrillation many years ago and looking back I don't think my thyroid was ever checked (this was pre hypo diagnosis) but like you I was taken to hospital on quite a few occasions and at one time a cardiologist did say I might have to undergo ablation therapy which burns away the faulty circuit (that's how he explained it to me) but I read that ablation doesn't always resolve Atrial Fibrillation. On one occasion I was in Egypt on holiday with a group of women and the Atrial Fibrillation started out of the blue (known as Paroxysmal) and heart rate was around 160 and it stayed like that for just over 6 hours! The holiday organiser was on the verge of getting me to a hospital, when it reverted to sinus rhythm. I was exhausted after that and glad to get on the plane home that evening as planned. On reflection I wonder if this was the start of my thyroid issues, perhaps some hyPER thyroid.

I was offered beta blockers on a couple of occasions and on one occasion I decided to give them a go. I took one and couldn't tolerate the way they made me feel, so that was the end of those! Had a monitor fitted for a week at one time and they did pick up a couple of incidents on it. But the cardiologist who read the results said they'd picked up SVT (supra ventricular tacchycardia) which is very different to Atrial Fibrillation and less of a risk. He said if it didn't trouble me often, not to worry about it. It diminished after that. I get very tiny bouts of it very infrequently now and it only lasts a couple of minutes usually. Glass of cold water sometimes puts it right.

Lastly, the point about cholesterol is interesting. My cholesterol level was never high before last year's incident. Last test I had showed result of total cholesterol at 4.9 which is under the guideline figure of 5 in the UK. But the statin was given for stabilisation of arterial plaque, though my arteries showed a very low level of plaque anyway. Interesting that when I had the test showing 4.9, I'd been doing a low carb / high fat diet for some weeks which has enabled me to lose 38 pounds in weight so far and still losing week by week.

Had a cholesterol test last week along with full blood count and the total cholesterol result (since being on statin) was 3.7. On that basis I am going to ask the statin be at least reduced!

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When research was done on plaque back in the 60's - they also found Homocysteine as well as cholesterol. Homocysteine - if raised is a marker for heart events and strokes. Rarely tested - possibly because the treatment to lower it to a safe level - is B12 - other B Vitamins and Betaine HCL.

As statins were on the horizon the Homocysteine studies were well and truly buried.

Since my diagnosis of Hashimotos back in 2005 my Homocysteine has reduced into single figures.

I have read 'not so good' comments on-line about Carolyn Dean - but then that could be BP at play 😊 I have her book - The Magnesium Miracle.

drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Cholest...

The above link has a very helpful explanation about cholesterol ....

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Reply to Georgina. What Marz says is correct. There is very big money to be made in the US from statins from all parties involved; big Pharma, many perks (tho officially illegal) for prescribers. It's interesting how little info re pros and cons of statins are provided to patients so they can make the best decisions about taking them. I believe this after working with and hearing what patients are told about prescribed statins. IMO in the US money can sometimes be a bigger motivator in our healthcare system than a patient's best interest. It is a sizeable flaw in an otherwise good healthcare system. If it were me, I would do my own research about any drug before taking one person's word about the need and safety of a prescribed med. Money can be a great motivator. Just food for thought.

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drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Cholest...

Think you will enjoy the article in the above link. I have read her book - Sustainable Medicine - and her website if FULL of good information :-)

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Hi Marz. It's synchronistic you should mention Dr Myhill. I was introduced to her just yesterday by another post I read and looked up her website right away. Plan to buy her book next week. She makes a lot of sense to me, and is a very interesting lady. I especially was helped by her recipe for "linseed bread" as she understands that this need for 'bread' is a major reason many of us can't follow gluten-free diet advice. I actually went to Sprouts today looking for linseed but couldn't find so will order from amazon.com. I read about her probs with "the system' in 2013(?) and believe it was a case of 'swimming against the -not always helpful- medical system.' I watched her video and plan on ordering her book re chronic fatigue as due to what I read on amazon it has the most diet info for a beginner (me). If you think a different book of hers would be more helpful feel free to say so. Great minds.....LOL Thanks, irina

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I have not read her book about CFS - but I am sure it will help. In her book I mentioned she re-iterated that statins act like VitD in the body. The Bread recipe sounds interesting - must look :-)

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She has a very clear and easy video on her site where she demonstrates her technique. It is simple, quick and has 3 ingredients. And she does something that many 'recipe-developers' don't do. She always explains why and gives little tips as she goes along that will save you from making errors and ruining the product. I had no questions at the end of the short video; she had answered them all.She uses linseed because it makes a very low carbohydrate bread. Take a look when you have a few free moments. It's very succinct. She explains things short and to the point. (Not like me! LOL)

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Good luck with Dr M's bread recipe. I've not been able to make it work. I think her use of a wood-fired oven is key, but it's not a standard domestic item in the UK, even in rural areas.

Her book on CFS is well worth reading. I have the older edition, but I understand the new one has a section on Lyme, plus updated info on other subjects.

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You're right. She has a second edition revised in 2016. That's the one I've added to my amazon.com cart and will order next week. I looked up a conversion chart for celsius to fahrenheit temps (allrecipes.com has a simple one) and she recommends a 220 degree Celcius. That's 425 degrees Fahrenheit temp on US ovens. May have to play around because individual ovens over here can be different enough to affect recipes even if temp setting are set correctly.

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It's me again. Speaking of lyme disease, I noted very recently US tv has begun to have an educational ad with a website about "pestborne" illnesses-lyme, zika, etc. We've never had those illnesses om a large scale before. Usually if someone in the US had sx, we would be asked about 'out of country' travel. But now our domestic situation apparently is so large there is a new website for info here called pestworld.org Haven't had a chance to take a look but will soon. I think it is sponsored by the CDC. Sounds like an area where we (patients) will have to educate ourselves to help with diagnosing sx as US doctors are probably not used to thinking about infectious disease early on when diagnosing strange sx. So we will have to be the 'educators' I think.

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Very interesting!

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Back to Dr M's bread recipe. I just had a 'brain wave'. Yesterday we had lunch at an Indian restaurant we go to a lot-inexpensive and healthy (Indian food is my favorite) and of course the naan (flatbread) is wonderful but not that healthy because here it's made with white flour. So why not try to use the linseed recipe to make flatbreads instead of a loaf that may have difficulty rising? I would make small individual serving rounds that didn't have to rise very much (like a lot of Indian and middle eastern flatbreads) and just grease a large cookie sheet with the lard. I imagine one would have to keep a close eye on the baking times as I don't think they would take an hour to bake like the bread. When my linseed arrives I will try this.

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Thanks, Irina. I've tried this as one of my tweaks to Dr M's original recipe, and I ended up with crackers. Very tasty crackers, but you wouldn't describe them as flatbread. :-(

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Crackers are good too! It would give me something to put my avocado dip on. If my flatbread attempt turns into crackers that will be fine. Thank you for the tip. How long did you leave then in the oven?

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Addendum to Hillwoman's crackers. Just wanted to share one of my favorite-almost daily- recipes. A sort of guacamole without unhealthy ingredients. I scoop out (after removing seed) the avocado pulp. I just use a spoon- no need to peel, slice, or make this hard or lengthy. I use the whole avocado and eat it as we usually have these small Hass (bumpy) avocados from Mexico that are inexpensive. Put the pulp in a bowl, add lemon or lime juice, seasonings - seasalt, pepper,extra garlic powder-whatever you like. I also cut up a small amount of raw onion and 1-2 garlic cloves (adds nutrition and bulk) I don't worry about mincing or complicating the process so mine is chunky. Then mash it all up and eat. I have an avocado masher that makes the process quicker but a fork works just fine. It;s a quick process and sometimes because I like to eat it on toast for breakfast and am not usually that alert in the morning, I get all the ingredients assembled in a small bowl the night before and put in fridge-except the avocado (it would turn brown) Then in the morning all I have to do is cut my avocado in half, add to my bowl, mash, make a piece of toast and some instant coffee and that's it. Which I am going to do right now! It's about 9am here. Just reread to edit for typos. Obviously I'll never have a second career as a recipe-writer. LOL Bye for now.

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What unhealthy ingredients could you possibly have in guacamole?

By the way, it's not a good idea to chop up onion the night before and leave in the fridge. That's not at all healthy because cut onion quickly becomes toxic by absorbing stuff out of the air.

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Hi GG. Thanks. I didn't know that about onions so will leave them til morning. Re unhealthy guacamole. It'shealthy unless we buy it in the store; then it has those unhealthy preservatives, additives, and sometimes food coloring to keep it that lovely green color. Best to make your own. Also in the states at least a very common-and inexpensive substitute for fresh lemons and limes is their juice that comes in cute little squeeze bottles shaped like the fruit-yellow for lemons/green for limes. Poison! IMO (preservatives in a plastic container).

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Ah ok! I see! We always make our own guacamole, so I just wondered what people were adding to it that they shouldn't. But, shop bought guacamole, obviously! lol

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don't forget the little yellow and green szueeze bottles at the grocers!LOL Gross!

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We have them here, too. But, I don't buy them. I prefer my citrus fresh!

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P.S. And don't forget the Mexican restaurants which are everywhere here. I understand their guac is not so healthy. Maybe they figure that after a couple of Margaritas customers won't notice or care about the quality of the guac! LOL

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lol After a couple of Margaritas, you could forget your own name! But, no, I don't eat their guacamole because it tastes so awful! Nothing like the real thing.

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My cholesterol is normal but I have high homocysteine which my doctor consider worrying as it barely dropped on B12. Will get retested soon and if it hasn't dropped more then its worrying.

My doctor says that high homocysteine is more dangerous than cholesterol and my cholesterol might need to be increased (total 3.7) by taking gluthanione (however it's spelled).

Upsetting thing is that my B12 drops if off of supps so I could have been walking around with low B12 and high homocysteine for almost two decades no one giving a s*** about it.

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It is not just the B12 you need to lower Homocysteine - but other B's too. Higher Nature - with free postage in the EU - do a special supplement for Homocysteine.

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Thanks! Will take a look as my doctor really stresses about my homocysteine. I am getting stressed about it too :D

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What is your level of Hcy ?

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I lost copy of results and can't remember the actual number, only that it was high. I will soon get retested so I will get a copy of previous results as well. If it's bad I will most probably make a posting about it.

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I believe a result into single figures is OK ....

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This is a new subject for me and need to learn more. From the little I've read so far, diet can also play a significant part in lowering homocysteine levels. I have to get more on top of this.

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Homocysteine update; Was browsing and found an online article that clearly and simply explained all about this subject for me . Written in 2016. The site is draxe.com/homocysteine-levels/ Dr Axe is one of my top three online "go-to" sources. If functional medicine is of interest, I'd suggest taking a look at his website. I have no connection with him, don't order products but I know when I want to understand something his info will be well-researched, organized, valuable, and simple to understand.

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I better read that as well as I have not read much about homocysteine after my doctor said high hcyst is nor good. I got very disappointed and ignored it.

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Please read it. It is easy reading,has a good format, and was an eyeopener. After you read it you'll probably know more about how to lower yours than your doctor. He knows a high level is not healthy but I bet if you asked him for specifics about how to lower it he'd be stuck for an answer. Take care, irina

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Fortunately my functional doctor is one of those good ones. My diet has been checked and considered good so we don't have to worry about that. My B12 is low so we try if that and B6 would lower homocysteine. If not then we have to go back to my diet.

That was good article but two things made me wonder what if...

I have long slim limbs, especially arms and my arm span is higher than my height. I have long slim fingers. I was born like that. Also my right side of ribcage pops out weird. .. so it raises a question if I was born with some type of condition. Sigh. Have to ask my doctor if he reckon these could be related somehow.

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Interesting. Could be. Would be interested in hearing more.

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Having raised Homocysteine indicates B12 deficiency at a cellular level. The blood test only tells you what is circulating and only arounsd 20% of the result is available to travel to the cells 😊

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Yeah. I have now been on B12 for 12 weeks. I know it helps as it improves my symptoms. I hope it changes my numbers so we can move on as I have so many other things going on as well that need to be fixed :/

Btw the best thing of B12 for me is that it helps to sleep very well. I take it just before going to bed and let it dissolve under my tongue and oh boy I sleep like a log :D

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Are you also taking a good B Complex that includes either Folate or Folic Acid - as it works in the body with B12. Also a Complex helps to keep all the B's in balance.

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Yeah I do take complex B with low folate my folate has always been good so my doctor said no need to go over with it. I eat a lot of berries which in Finland are very rich in folate. I have 200 mg B6 which I divide to small pieces. Got it from my dad who took it with tubilysin. He got it for free, otherwise B6 is expensive and half jar he had extra I manage for long time :D

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I sometimes wonder if doctors ever answer this question with regard to helping their patients: "What good is pointing out a problem if you don't offer a workable solution?

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I've also begun to find articles that talk about cholesterol in ways that bring new thinking to the table. Apparently just focusing on getting cholesterol levels low is not all it has been cracked up to be. And, in fact, in older patients who may have a higher incidence of dementia, a higher cholesterol level may give protection as the brain needs fat to stay healthy. (Good fats, of course). There are docs who don't subscribe to this thinking yet but many that I follow do. Isn't that often the way with new medical research and thinking. There are the 'this is the way we've always done it' group and then those who have open minds and think outside the box.? (I'm definitely a member of the latter! LOL) Anyone seen info about this topic? I'b be interested to hear.

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Yeah I have read few studies suggesting elderly especially female benefit from normal or a bit above the range cholesterol.

But it makes sense as cholesterol is mother of most other hormones. Low cholesterol lowers all other hormones. This is why my doctor would consider increasing my cholesterol from 3.7 as he reckons it's not enough to fulfil the needs of other hormones.

Cholesterol is often seen as a big bad boogie man even though it's been known for quite long time it is important hormone and your arteries won't just get clogged by cholesterol by itself. It's inflammation that eats up the arteries and cholesterol is like a bandage. Sugar is probably one of the worst things keeping up low grade inflammation and high blood sugar weakens the veins.

Cholesterol is a good guy trying to help.

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I agree-esp re sugar. Inflammation seems to be a big problem in many illnesses and inflammation is very 'sugar-driven'. I've seen sugar referred to as "the other white addictive substance." Unfortunately, it's legal, cheap, a great money-maker for the food industry, and -at least for me- hard to stay away from!

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I uses to be addicted to sugar and never imagined I could live without my daily chocolate bar. ..

Here I am 7 years on no added sugar diet. I can eat few pieces of chocolate and it's nothing but disgusting.

My doctor is very happy that part is not an issue :D he often laughs at me when I say that I tried so hard to like sugar but I have lost the battle, if I want something sweet I eat carrots.

When I quit eating sugar everything else started to taste so good. One of my favourite treats is grated carrot-tomato-garlic-chili bearnaise- pickled cucumber mess with minced meat sauce.

When I went on no added sugar I used B12 with chromium. Could be that gave me a good start. Or that my gut bacteria was already stabilised and nurtured by good stuff so cravings never troubled me.

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Worth a try.Maybe chromium works on our appetite driven hormones and no one has figured this out yet. And for me the best motivator is when I start feeling noticeably better with unpleasant physical symptoms gone. I changed my eating several years ago, lost a lot of weight and was able to get off insulin and become just a diet-controlled diabetic. I've begun to be lax and want to tighten up, but my HgA1C is still in the low sixes and need no meds. I guess you could say I've learned to 'cheat' just enough to "have my cake and eat it too"LOL

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:D it's great you got off of insulin and can manage just by diet!

I didn't start to feel better that way , but eating lots of sugar replaced normal eating so living on sugar high wasn't that much fun in the end. If I had continued eating junk I guess I would have felt worse as I developed multiple deficiencies.

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How do you increase cholesterol? I'd love to do that!

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I only know that in my case they suspect methylation issues and low glutathione, if my cholesterol remain low then we try glutathione supplements.

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I'd be interested to know how that goes. My cholesterol is naturally very low. I did try glutathione supplements, but they didn't suit me. However, due to lack of testing, I don't know if they had any effect on my cholesterol. :)

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I have only had my cholesterol tested once in my life. My doctor is quite sure it's down to methylation and hopes it will improve when other stuff is fixed so cholesterol will be retested later on as at the moment it's the least important thing.

So it will be in long run before I will even try glutathione if I ever have to. I hope not as I am already on tons of supps and feel like walking health shop :D

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lol I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. :)

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Cholesterol has nothing to do with fat. They are two different substances.

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I wouldn't be surprised to hear. big Pharma (BP) is working on some drug even as we write to lowere homosysteine levels (just what we need! Another new drug to make $$ and muddy the waters. Between diet and some reasonably priced supplements already available BP is not making enough $ for mainstream healthcare to give new research much credence.

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Blood glucose and insulin levels can also increase whilst on thyroid medications. In addition many people become more sensitive to everyday products like caffeine, gluten and lactose. Many people feel a little better when they either reduce or stop consuming these triggering products altogether. Hydration can also help improve conditions so try to stay fully hydrated.

I also have been prescribed statins after commencing thyroid medication it seems to be a trend. Have they offered antidepressants yet.

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If not, they are probably not far behind!!!

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I was aware that raised blood glucose, insulin levels and indeed blood pressure are often a result of Hypothyroidism, though I thought it was more a by-product of Hypo, rather than a result of the medication.

I have Coeliac disease so haven't eaten gluten in over 45 years (and I don't cheat like some) Currently, I'm also following a low carb (not no carb) higher fat diet and as a result have lost 2 stone 9 pounds with a bit more to go, but feeling much better as a result. Part of the low carb regime involves drinking much more water and I'd have to say I have been a good water drinker before, but even better now. Have the odd day where I know I haven't drunk enough.

I have been offered anti depressants on more than one occasion! One occasion very recently as I presented with pretty bad anxiety sitting in front of the GP. I do occasionally take the tiniest dose of diazepam for anxiety, but for the most part have learned breathing and relaxation techniques to overcome it. I questioned her about the anti depressant, she said it's used for anxiety. I told her I'd rather avoid that as I would then be taking a daily medication for something which really doesn't happen every day, just in occasional bursts. She left me to think about it.

At the time I was in a very stressful job which I'd returned to after the cardiac event last year, returned part time in December (much against some of my sister's judgement) So in January things came to a head and I resigned from the job, left early Feb. That got rid of most of the anxiety!

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You have a very interesting story. The part that caught my eye was how long you have lived without gluten and how much of an advocate you've been for yourself. For me, I am a good self- advocate but although I take good care of myself in some ways, in other ways I haven't committed 100%. I feel ready because I feel physically bad from sx I know I have a lot of control over thru healthy diet , supplements, and less input from our current (US) medical model. You've motivated me which is what I'm in short supply of right now. I spent almost 40 years working in the US healthcare system as an R.N. At this point in my life I have lost so much trust in our system, though I do have one doc I trust-mainly to talk things over with when I have stressful medical moments coming up. He is my Electrophysiologist and gives me confidence to buck the system. So thank you for your story. It's what I needed to read today. Especially that someone can manage 45 years without gluten. I avoid it most of the time but it has to be ALL or NOTHING for better health. Take care. irina

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I feel very humbled by your comments Irina, to think I may have inspired someone to do something different is truly quite lovely, thank you.

Actually it's probably longer without gluten because my Coeliac story has another twist to it. Many years ago, Coeliac disease was always thought to be a childhood illness that you 'grew out of' whereas now of course once diagnosed the only remedy is gluten free diet for life. So when I was about 18 months old (I'm 62 now) my late mother was in despair about my health. My late father told me that they would go through around 18 nappies (diapers) a day, I looked like one of those poor little malnourished African children with a hugely distended belly, very thin. Our family doctors were at a loss as to what was wrong. Coeliac disease was not well known then and there were no definitive tests to make diagnosis conclusive like there are now.

My father decided to do something himself and he took me one day to Great Ormond Street hospital in London (would have been quite a trek in those days just to get to London) and asked to see someone. I was seen by Dr Wilfred Sheldon, who was doctor to the Queen's children at that time. He sat me on his lap and I was sick over him. He was unperturbed and told my father he could see how poorly I was. He said he thought it could be Coeliac Disease and recommended a gluten free diet. But he said I would most probably grow out of it and be able to eat 'normal' food by around age 7. That's pretty much what happened though of course in those days, eating gluten free was much more difficult than it is now. My mother must have had a very tough time.

So around age 7, I had grown to where I should be and I was allowed off the diet and oddly enough I don't recall gluten affecting me like it would now, though I was never a very 'robust' child, often falling ill and had very turbulent teenage years. In my late teens, my two older sisters (now 71 and 68) were discovering 'foreign' food like Chinese, Italian and Indian foods which were becoming popular at that time. I did begin to notice certain symptoms with certain foods, particularly Italian. Eventually at 25 when I met the man who later became my husband, I'd mentioned some issues with some foods. Goodness, he'd actually heard of Coeliac Disease as he had a friend who had got it. So then I went to the GP to ask for tests. The Ig Antibody blood test was in it's infancy then, but I had one and it was negative. But because of the symptoms I was having they sent me for endoscopic biopsy. Results were conclusive straightaway. Got Coeliac Disease. Seen a great deal of changes since that time, but diagnosis is still very slow for many people who remain ill for quite a number of years. Probably because so many GPs just don't recognise some of the classic symptoms - anaemia being one of the prime ones.

I was going to send this to you privately, but decided to leave it here in case it's of use to anyone else who reads it, who may have symptoms and not sure what they are.

xxx

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You can always PM but often unless something is very private we never know who will see it and be helped. I remember learning in nursing school that celiac and also asthma was self limlting. Now we know differently. One thing that may have helped you as a child is that gluten wasn't as pervasive in foods as it is now. I understand it is in so many foods we would never think of- even some ice creams. In general we were still eating fairly healthy foods through the 50's. I did mention at one time to one of my docs about a gluten-free diet and he replied "But you don't have celiac disease." Now I believe that gluten problems are present in different degrees for different people so even without a definitive diagnosis, if we have symptoms, it's best to avoid gluten. Also so many patients have anecdotal stories re feeling better without it. But, of course, science and medicine don't recognize anecdotal info!!i

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There is now a recognised condition known as 'Non Coeliac Gluten Intolerance' but I doubt it's recognised by many GPs. If you told a GP you were avoiding gluten and you don't have CD, they will just think you're a fussy eater I'm sure!

You could well be right about gluten not being in so many foods at that time. Even things like gravy were mostly made freshly from meat juices and 'gravy browning' though that might have had gluten in.

I also don't drink coffee or conventional tea, only herbal teas and only those with no liqorice in (liqorice is known to raise BP and I'm already taking med for BP too!) I don't eat / drink anything with any known stimulants in like caffeinated drinks, or those with guarana etc in them.

Obviously I avoid soy / soya products (though prior to Hypo I used to drink soya milk all the time as I preferred the taste) and I'm just 'careful' with other goitrogenics.

Some months ago, I also made a decision (on advice re adrenals) to cut all refined sugar from my intake. I didn't eat much anyway, an odd few sweets here and there.

Also nothing with artificial sweeteners in - even the so called healthy Stevia, which is nothing but healthy once it's gone through processing to make it into a viable product for sale and consumption.

I gave up smoking when I was 25. Lucky for me as my husband hates smoking!

10 years ago, I had a raging attack of flu in December, was terribly ill for around 6 weeks (I don't think people realise how awful flu can be) developed bronchitis in the middle of it, coughed my uterine prolapse into a worse condition. I gave up alcohol for January that year (2nd year of dry January) and at the end of Jan said to my husband wondered if I could do a year without. He didn't think so.....

I did the year and never went back to alcohol.

So guess I do the restraint thing quite well really :-)

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Good for you. I also avoid soy everything which I used to think was healthy but apparently over here it is one of the top two GMO foods, the other being corn so don't eat either. I've also not had ANYTHING with artificial sweeteners for going on 4 years. When I made the decision to do whatever it took to get off as many meds as possible-esp insulin, I learned the truth about artificial sweeteners. Possibly one of the worst 'things' we can ingest. I hesitate to even use the word food because it isn't. And congratulations re giving up smoking. I've had patients tell me it's one of the hardest addictions to break. xx

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Lastly (I promise!) you may already know, that there are 19 foods which are considered to be gluten 'cross reactive' meaning they can mimic gluten and cause issues for some people. Coffee is on the list as is (from memory) corn, buckweat and others.

I can't eat oats, was told when diagnosed not to eat them. It's only in the last 10 to 15 years that they were finally deemed to be gluten free, but only if milled in an environment where no other cereals can contaminate them. Hence you now get packs with 'gluten free' printed on them. I can't eat these either. They contain another protein called Avenin which mimics Coeliac symptoms in some people. They make me quite ill. So that's another one off my list!

x

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I read somewhere that some foods are considered "gluten cross- over foods". They aren't technically gluten but the body thinks they are and reacts accordingly. Apparently these foods have a similar protein structure. Some are coffee, sugar, cow dairy, nightshades and others. I googled 'What are gluten cross-over foods?' If you google there are quite a few informative sites to choose from.

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Yep, usually comes under 'cross reactivity'

amymyersmd.com/2017/06/glut...

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I read some research which I believe came from America and I cannot remember where I read it, but it came to the conclusion that Statins have little value to the majority of people, and anyone over mid 60's will receive no/little benefit from them and are more likely to get significant serious side effects from them. It was suggested that statins were a factor in increasing numbers of cardiac deaths in older people.

I was prescribed them a number of years ago along with a very low fat, low calorie diet, plus all the painkillers, antidepressives, PPI's etc, before I discovered that I don't convert levo to T3 so was getting no or little benefit from any of these drugs. It was when I discovered this site and learned about hypo that I stopped all the other tablets I was taking, and now on 60mcg T3 I am the best I have been for many years. Since the end of October I have also lost 2 1/2 stones which I was almost unable to lose anything previously.

Doctors should not get any incentives to prescribe medication of any kind, in my opinion, and the health service would be far better off if it didn't have to pay for these drugs.

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Exactly! :)

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Great to hear a successful ending amongst all the despair of newly diagnosed people that post. My Endocrinologist was willing to try me on a four week trail of T3 at a dose of 5mcg daily. I suggested that we try branded T4 too but then he said we will try branded T4 first then if i still have low T3 we will trail T3 but he showed body language that he would have trouble with the powers that be when they here he has prescribed T3 to another patient. His expertise has limited power when facing hospital managers. Do you receive a private script for your 60mcg T3.

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Hi Angelica, no my prescription is not private, I get my T3 on the NHS, I know I am one of the lucky ones.

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Why T3 not T4 or do you take both.

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I only take t3 now as I cannot convert t4 to t3. I was taking levo (t4) and getting steadily more and more ill until I demanded my gp sent me to the endo I chose. Gp's have no idea, they only look at TSH and mine was getting higher so they kept on raising my dose of levo. They rarely understand that all the other symptoms we have are tied up with being hypo. They have been told by 'those who should know better' that levo is the 'gold standard' of treatment.

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Levothyroxine has brought me from a bed i couldn't at one point get up from so although ive had issues with my health since commencing levothyroxine. levothyroxine was not directly the root cause, it just so happens that for me levothyroxine made me crave carbs which in turn caused a lot of my issues by raising my blood glucose levels. How long before you became well on T3 only. How long was you ill before they discovered that you wasn't converting to T3.

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I was finally diagnosed about 28 years ago when I was discovered to be in Myxoedema Coma. I was ill for years before then but no-one put the symptoms together. After being on levo for 24 yrs and steadily getting worse was when I finally got to see my endo. about 13 years ago I spent at least 9 months in bed and was retired from work a the company doctor said I would never be fit for work again( I was 55)! I was my endo who finally told me about the thyroid being atrophied and put me on T3. I began to notice a difference within a week. T3 is quite fast acting but doesn't stay in the system for long. I have been with him for around 4 years.

When I began researching my condition, with the help of this site, I ordered my medical history notes. This was a revelation, at 6 months I was tested for coeliac disease which came back negative but there was a note on the page that said 'Thyroid disease?' which was never followed up!!

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Yes I think they have wrote me off too. As like you ive researched and gained information from various sources thanks to this site and discovered on the correct medication we can become well. Many of my symptoms have gotten worse eg skin, hair, memory outlook on life. All of the books ive read all say you should start to feel better very quickly once you start thyroid replacement. For me it hasn't happened that way and although at first I could not get out of bed I seemed to have gone 360 degrees as I seem to be back at the start again. Hair falling out, very dry skin, thinning skin and not wanting to go out. I think I'm lacking more than just thyroid hormones and may well be needing others too.

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Angelic have you had your ferritin, folate, D3 and B12 tested recently, these can all be low and make a great deal of difference to how we feel. I fill myself up with very high doses of B12 at regular intervals as mine is almost at the bottom of the scale but because it has not dropped below they will not give me injections! Unfortunately I have to buy my own so cannot take them all the time as state pensions don't really run to paying for medication.

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Even when I take high doses, after exercise I'm wiped out for days to recover. I may have gut issues that I need to resolve as I have Hashimotos . Is T4 supposed to replace all the hormones our thyroid make and resolve thyroid related issues eg feeling always cold, dry course hair and skin, constipation, achy limbs and joints, muscle weakness. I'm unsure which are side effects of levothyroxine and which are definite hypothyroid related problems. I may be expecting levothyroxine to resolve its own side effects.

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These are all thyroid symptoms. If levo does work for you it should help these resolve, but don't expect miracles! However, since you have hashi's that will make things worse. you need to try and sort out the gut issues. Have you tried gluten free? or dairy free? The gluten free works very well for a lot of people, unfortunately not me.

The thyroid gland produces T4 which is then converted in your body to T3 which is the version that makes everything work, T2 and T1 which are in smaller amounts and I can't remember what they do. Memory is still rubbish. If I am remembering tis correctly it is the Pituitary gland which produces thyroid stimulating hormone which triggers the thyroid gland to produce the T4. If this isn't working properly then I don't expect the thyroid will either. I think Greygoose can explain things far better than I can, she is brilliant.

When you said you take high doses I presume you were talking about the ~B12, how much do you take? I was taking 50,000 units x 2 every day for three months and my levels in my blood went up by just 4 points.

If you look in the search bar top right for Symptoms of Low B12 and also for symptoms of Hypo thyroid and hashimotos you ill be amazed how they tie in together.. I got the B12 one printed out and ticked all the things I was suffering from and still thy won't give me the injections or prescribe tablets.

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Max recommended dose was 150mcg, I took 100mcg and my energy was great but body could not cope and I became quite ill and still not quite right yet.

I'm 90% gluten free, organic and dairy free. I only have lactose free milk and only a small amount of that in a max three cups of tea per day.

I tried stevia as I was told that 88% of its ingredient was a product called inulin that was a good prebiotic to help with the good gut bacteria. I wanted to use it to sprinkle on porridge as I heard artificial sweeteners are worse than sugar. I also heard that diabetics could use it. I was told that I'm borderline diabetic. level was 48, a couple of years ago. But as Ive had a flare up I eliminated it from my diet I'm not sure whether its okay to start using again just yet.

But ive found that organic spirulina helps my gut and the version I have contains no iodine which is good and I haven't noticed a flare up with that although I have also eliminated that at present.

I waiting to reintroduce manuka honey for the antibiotic anti-inflammatory benefits but still a little swollen and don't want to increase swellings by having a allergic reaction. lol. Getting older is very difficult with the discovery of intolerances.

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It's upsetting when we can't get what we need to stay healthy from our governments especially when a solution is simple and relatively inexpensive. I don't think most beaurucrats are stupid or even uninformed but instead, often have cushy, wellpaying jobs and don't want to upset the applecart. In the US it is difficult to get private testing to bring our own results to the doctor when they balk at ordering certain tests. Actually the glitch is (as usual) money-related. I could have the tests done but it would be inordinately expensive because if I could order without going through the doctor several people and institutions would lose money. When a doctor orders a test here's where the money goes: to the lab for doing the test, to the dr for reading the results, to the insurance company-which in my case is tied in with my medicare benefits. Because companies have deep pockets they can afford to pay high rates for the test. I can't so if the lab sells me the test results directly people lose money. Is this clear as mud yet? So I'm costing people income and if I want to go this route I have to pay exorbitant rates to keep the money rolling in. An example: When I was still taking coumadin and doing self-testing at home here's where the money went. One reason docs here are encouraging self-testing, IMO,is because they can employ fewer coumadin nurses in their offices and save those salaries. My former coumadin nurse is also a good friend of mine (and has since moved onto another job.) I was loaned my coagucheck machine by the testing company (I understand you must buy one in the UK). But here, they are happy to loan because the machine is not what makes the money. It is the charge for each test, the disposable testing supplies (strips and lancets). Everytime I did a test I had to call the results to the testing supply company. They always asked how many test strips I used (usually one) and then sent the result to my dr's coumadin nurse. (I had already called her and had the coming week's dosing plan in place between the 2 of us). The testing company would send me 12 strips at a time and so know how many tests I had done between orders. They charged my insurance for notifying the doctor, charged my insurance for the supplies, charged me an out-of-pocket copay for the supplies, the doctor charged the insurance company for reading the result , so this was a windfall on many levels. And the profit margin was even higher if the office didn't have to pay for a nurse performing the test in the office. I could still do all this online and save even more time for the company and the dr's office. Since I've been a patient at the cardiology practice the number of coumadin nurses has gone way down. That's a lot of 'salary saving". The system is a problem for me right now because I am trying to assemble all the necessary labs to get on the right track re my thyroid but it's like pulling shark's teeth. I saw my PCP/GP last week and just checked my labs online. I really pushed to have updated thyroid tests and she finally consented to add -are you ready- a TSH and a freeT4 to the mix. My TSH is drifting up again but the message came back on my online patient portal. "Everything is fine." Not even a chance for a dialogue. My electrophysiologist-bless him-who also helps me with non-cardiac problems-gave me the name of a new endo who I will see next month. I have high hopes because the EP knows me and when he recommends someone he knows who will work well with my "I'm my own advocate" philosophy! Thanks for listening. Meanwhile I will sit here still not feeling up to par til April. At least there's a light'..... irina

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Oh bless and we say the unemployed are the problem lol. Thank you for taking the time to post this information, things even the simplest of things always seem to become complex as loops and disregards and middle men and so and so add to this ever growing mass of angles. When I think about medicine and having the ability to health money is overlooked. Every time we send good will and a smile to a lonesome passer-by who looks down on there look at no point do I feel I should write to there insurance company in relation to the cost of my service yet so many so called healers will only heal for a cash reward. Advances in science are exploited and held ransomed, its a dam shame.

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And thanks for taking the time to read my post. Didn't realize it was the length of War and Peace til I got to the end.

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LOL, your welcome.

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And I'll bet if your cholesterol did lower it well may have been your diet changes! We'll never know.

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And LOVE the cartoon. So on target.

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Hi GG, Great research. People need more info like this to make better choices about statins instead of just hearing the 'hype' and 'scare tactics' from big Pharma. I bookmarked the article.

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Great post /info Greygoose, thank you😊

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You're welcome. :)

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My father has been taking statins for years and last year he had to have a triple heart bypass so I was wondering what good are they? I take my statin and am fine but it just makes me wonder whether taking them is worth it

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No, it's not worth it. And just because you're fine on them now, doesn't mean you will always be. Statins are of absolutely not benefit to women. And they're very rarely of any use to men.

Cholesterol does not cause heart attacks, despite what Big Pharma would have you believe. And, you can't live without cholesterol. The lower your cholesterol, the more danger of a heart attack! Plus all the other nasty things they cause, like diabetes and prostate/breast cancer. Because if you lower your cholesterol, you lower your sex hormones, and it's the sex hormones that protect from prostate/breast cancer. As I always say, the cholesterol won't kill you, but the statins just might!

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They are no good ~ if I could turn the clock back, I would have stood up to my fathers GP more re statins and a host of other useless meds, which I am absolutely certain led to his demise.😥 Statins in particular caused him debilitating muscle aches, but his GP just said it was 'better than having a heart attack' ~ he still had a heart attack and also had a triple bypass. Afterwards, MORE statins😨 ~ the whole thing is a massive finance based con!

Please research this and find more suitable solutions for both of you. I have refused statins and take all supplements as advised on here, and CoQ10, etc, and avoid all low fat and cholesterol lowering foodstuffs. It's just my opinion, but I really think you'd be better off without statins.🌷 x

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I wonder sometimes, too, how much revenue pushing drugs on healthy people under the guise of 'prevention' generates for big P!!!! Turning people into the 'worried well' is lucrative. IMO!

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Statins might bring your cholesterol down but look what else they cause;

Atorvastatin, Lovastatin,Pravastatin all rob the body of CoQ10 and Vit D. Symptoms can be Fatigue, weakness, muscle cramps, memory loss, shortness of breath, higher risk of cancer, frequent infections, liver damage and heart disease.

I'd rather find other ways to get cholesterol down! Check out vitamin levels and get them optimal is a good start . . . . this helped me.

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You're right and all these probs are fairly well-documented. There would probably be even more data if facts were harder to sweep under the rug.

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Why do you want to bring your cholesterol down, anyway? The higher the cholesterol, the longer you live - that's been proved, too. Cholesterol doesn't do any damage to your body - it certainly doesn't cause heart attacks - you body needs it to function.

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I can't actually read this article, for some reason it won't open. Never mind, I already know what it's going to say :-)

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Completely agree, greygoose. When I first heard statins were the new wonderdrug years ago, I thought "great" (ex-nurse) until I read more deeply. No way would I take them, and I have never changed my mind. I believe they are poison. My mother's family have high cholesterol and I have inherited it too (Mum was 9.2, I have had an 8.4 & worse) yet they all lived to be over 100, except Mum who died from lymphoma at 85. Everyone also had LOW blood pressure. Interesting?

I was sent for an arterial scan a couple of years ago when I was 56 & the doctor found no plaque whatsoever despite my mega-cholesterol - he said "why are you here? You have the arteries of a 21 year old". I swear my GP was angry - he wanted me to be blocked to prove to me I should take statins. I have since changed doctors as he also poisoned me with symbicort inhaler which sent my systolic blood pressure up & up & made me feel like crap - then he pulled the depression card - goodbye, idiot, said I. Guess what - my blood pressure was exceptionally low before that too - mmmmmm.

Poor Dad had a cholesterol level of 4.3 & had a triple heart by-pass at 55. Mmmmmm - something they are missing here is that plaque does not consist only of cholesterol - many other components aee present. Clotting is an extremely complicated process & the complete sequence is still not completely understood. Science is missing a lot of information - what is known is being ignored or gagged for monetary reasons by big pharma.

The moral of the story - never believe anything big pharma says. Do your own research on bona fide medical sites & look at clinical trials done independently from drug companies who stand to gain. I have never read anything that proved categorically that statins will benefit health - quite the opposite is true in my opinion.

Cholesterol is vital for every cell in your body & the brain has a massive need for it to function properly. Get your thyroid function right & your cholesterol will come down. Fact. That proves it is a SYMPTOM. I help on a site looking at dog blood tests helping owners beat a life threatening auto immune disease. The main reason they have raised cholesterol is hypothyroidism - veterinary fact - or it's their breed's DNA. It is also a reason that they can't recover from the disease or make a slow ponderous recovery (thyroxine is vital to red cell production & can be given as treatment). Cocker spaniels are a good example of breed with raised cholesterol, but there are many others - they are also predisposed to hypothyroidism. Maybe I have become part dog (rescue greyhounds are my loves) & that is why I have mega cholesterol!

I appreciate humans are not like dogs at all, but the principles of having a healthy thyroid gland applies to all mammals. We all need help to make our bodies function properly when that important gland goes wrong. However, we do not need statins. Changing your diet won't help either. The liver is the Lord of cholesterol - if it doesn't make enough if it, you will die - that is way more serious than too much. I agree with Dr Malcolm Kendrick & others - the Great Cholesterol Con. I truly hope people will be held accountable in the future for the damage caused to patients. Everyone I know who has started taking them now has high blood pressure (yes they cause atherosclerosis). How sad is that. Anyone out there who still believes in taking them, PLEASE take CoQ10 supplement to at least protect that from diminishing. Or stop the damn things altogether.

Maybe my next scan will not show the arteries of a 21 year old & I'll be all blocked up - until then, no statins for me. And asthma sufferers beware of inhalers - symbicort messed my HPA axis up, put my systolic blood pressure up to 180, suppressed my thyroid gland & worst of all, gave me horrendous brain fog. I can't take any corticosteroid inhaler at all, so stuck taking prednisolone (not ideal) when needed.

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I agree with all you say! But, I doubt any doctors will ever be called to account. Excuse will be made for them, or the charges will just be ignored. They all stand together and shut the rest of us out!

I have a hypo dog, but his cholesterol has never been tested - thank goodness! I had a hard enough time getting him diagnosed, I don't want a cholesterol side-track to negociate as well!

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They don't treat high cholesterol in dogs as far as I know - sensible! They look for the CAUSE. Hee hee. Normally, as soon as they get thyroxine (a MASSIVE dose in comparison to us humans - we're talking milligrams not micrograms) it comes down to normal. Not so in breed related case though, obviously. It is unusual to get a cholesterol test in dogs unless you do a full chemical screen (USA does that more than Europe) & in my opinion, it's pretty pointless anyway unless your dog has a very serious disease. Good luck with the doggie - he'll be fine on some saloxine, I bet.

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Well, he's been on T4 for a couple of years, now. He's OK, but he's an old rescue dog, anyway, had a very bad start in life, so not surprising if he's a bit ragged round the edges. He's happy enough. :)

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Happy he has a good home to grow old in. doggy kisses to him xxx

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Thank you. I'll tell him. :D

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