I posted here 3 weeks ago that a short 12 week course of statins from Jan 17 ending in April 17 gave me muscle problems.
I have had very many investigations (biopsy, Mri, Emg, CK bloods) and all have been 'normal'
However, the muscle problems have not only persisted but progressed.
The rheumatologist said this:
- That he was sure that statins caused the muscle problems, but they were not the reason for them continuing. He could not say what was
- That statin myotoxicity may have an effect on thyroid function.
Which led me to post my thyroid readings from 24/2/19 on this forum.
TSH 3.71 (0.27-4.20)
FT3 4.27 (3.1-6.8)
FT4 13.400 (12-22)
Thyroglobulin antibody 105 <115
Thyroid peroxidase antibody 19.3 <34
Looking through my past blood results, I could only find this thyroid result pre-statin
On 15/5/16 TSH was 2.2
When I posted the 24/2/19 results 6 people commented that my TSH was too high and my FT4 was too low and that this makes me hypothyroid and a possible cause of my muscle problems - I never had any "muscle problems pre-statin" and I am a keen cyclist.
So, any comments at all greatly appreciated as to whether statins can be implicated in poor thyroid function.
"If you have an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism), treatment may be delayed until this problem is treated. This is because having an underactive thyroid can lead to an increased cholesterol level, and treating hypothyroidism may cause your cholesterol level to decrease, without the need for statins. Statins are also more likely to cause muscle damage in people with an underactive thyroid."
And I stopped taking a statin about 20 years ago when I began waking up with my back muscles in spasm. (The muscle pain topped when I stopped the statin). Currently I am being adequately treated for my hypothyroidism and my last cholesterol test showed my total cholesterol to be 200 (with <200 being "normal").
To clarify, what both links tell you is if you had thyroid disease prior to starting statins, then you would need to control the thyroid problem prior to any treatment with statins. From your post, you suspected you had hypothyroidism - even if mild - and the statins would have exacerbated your problem. You need an endo to review your condition and hopefully this will help. If your muscle problems are that bad, you may need to stop the statins until this improves .
Feel better soon and so sorry you are experiencing this.
Thank you very much greekchick for your informative reply
I did not suspect I had thyroid problems until 3 weeks ago
When 6 people here posted that I was hypothyroid
I came to this forum by luck really, as I was looking for an answer
For my muscle problems because as you know, I have been reviewed in depth by rheumatology, only to be told everything is "normal" - it's certainly not!!!
So glad it helped! And that you are off the statins. I am hopeful you will be back to your old self as you were not on the statins very long. Treating the thyroid should help your cholesterol All the best!
Agree with Parsnip1964 (love that username) I wouldn’t touch statins unless I really, really, really had no choice. Best to try everything else first. 🤸🏿♀️🥛
Have a look at Dr Malcolm Kendrick's website/blog too. At the 2014 Thyroid UK conference he never mentioned the word statins in his presentation, but in 12 slides he provided enough information to prove that we do not need to lower our cholesterol.
You are obviously aware of the monetary incentive that doctors get from prescribing statins - it’s criminal and like several other corruptions the truth always wins
It looks as if your Thyroglobulin antibodies are high. Has anyone said anything about Hashimotos to you, I have raised Thyroglobulin antibodies too.
Vegans can be short of b12 and this is a connection often implicated with thyroid. Great HU sister site called Pernicious Anemia....
The blood results for thyroid can look ok but if you have been taking supplements with Biotin which is often present in b complex supplements then this gives false high or low results for thyroid and you need to stop supplements for a week before blood draw.
My friends husband has been left with dreadful muscle damage years after stopping Statins the muscles continue to melt away, they are unable to stop this and he is heading for a wheelchair. I have asked them to speak to the specialist about thyroid as he has some symptoms such as loss of end of eyebrows along with numerous others and they don't know if thyroid function was ever tested. The links given above mention it which I will forward to them.
How long have you been drinking soya milk? Do you know that that could be the root of your problem? Soy is very bad for the thyroid, because it impedes the uptake of iodine by the thyroid, and also stops thyroid hormones entering the cells, where it's needed.
Be careful with the extra calcium. A lot of veggies are high in calcium, anyway, but if you're taking calcium supplements, you should also be taking vit K2 - MK7 to make sure that calcium gets into the teeth and bones, and doesn't build up in the soft tissues, causing problems like kidney stones and heart attacks.
and type the key words. When I typed "statin thyroid" the site found 239 articles. Now mind you, some of them will require you to consult a dictionary to figure out what they are talking about (these are articles published in peer-reviewed scientific journals), but just reading the Abstracts can give you a rough idea of what's happening.
It's more than likely that the reason you needed statins in the first place - i.e. high cholesterol - is because you had low T3 - i.e. hypothyroidism. There is a direct link between T3 levels and cholesterol levels because, when T3 is low, the body cannot process cholesterol correctly, and it build us in the blood. A TSH of over 2 shows that your thyroid is struggling to make hormone.
So true, I had high cholesterol from being a young skinny thirty year old and did the diet (really kept to it) plus I exercised really well but I could never keep my cholesterol down - even on statins I could never get it under 6.5. That is until I recently went on Dr Lowe's Thyro-gold. After 3 months I was tested and my cholesterol had dropped from 8.something to 6.something! We couldn't believe it as I had had to stop taking statins over a year earlier. I had been on a small amount of T4 only up to that point - but that hadn't helped.
Well, cholesterol levels have little to do with diet - and nothing to do with exercise. They're not connected to weight gain, or to eating fat, as most doctors would have you believe. Cholesterol is made in the liver, and it's made in the liver because we need it. Too low levels can kill you. So, this whole statin thing is an absolute farce!
I didn't say statins had made you hypo, I said you were probably hypo before you started them. But, if your cholesterol was only 3, why did your doctor put you on statins? That sounds like malpractice, to me!
A TSH of 2.2 shows that your thyroid was already struggling. A TSH of over 2 is not 'normal'.
Well, they get financial incentives for prescribing statins - they don't get anything for levo! - so that's why they are so keen to put people on them. My friend was bullied into taking statins 'just in case'. His cholesterol was a really good level. He became diabetic and I persuaded him to stop the statins. When his doctor found out, he went ballistic! And bullied him back onto them again. He then developed prostate cancer. When I explained to him how the statins had caused the cancer, he swore never to go back on the again. He was very angry about it.
It is a real scandal that doctor prescribe these dangerous drugs for financial gain. I'm lucky that I've never had that battle, because even when I was very hypo, my cholesterol only went 0.1 over the top of the range. I am the one that is in danger of a heart attack! It's far worse to have low cholesterol than high cholesterol!
I feel it’s because they’re told to dish them out for anything cardiac related. Doesn’t matter that my cholesterol was 3.0, I was told I “should” be on them
I resisted for some time, then scared of the impending CABG, I took them for 12 weeks total.
Eventually I stopped them myself
However, I now feel that the specialist was correct
“That the statins were the cause of the original problem with the muscles, but that has now resolved and something else (he was not sure what) was responsible for the problems continuing
So, I came on here looking for answers and posted
And was very surprised that 6 people all said the same thing
That my TSH was too high and FT4 too low
I shall see a private endo on Friday and run all this by him
Ah - private Endo - same story but you have longer with them. I have seen 4 endocrinologists. My story is long. I lost years of my life waiting for the right dose of the right pill from the right dr but was hugely let down.
I highly recommend seeing Izabella Wentz website, docu series and books.
Finding and treating the root cause of all illnesses is key. Conventional medicine has people seeing an ologies for each part and yet our bodies are joined together as one and we know our own bodies.
I am very well now, as long as I keep away from gp’s and eat a clean diet and keep away from toxins.
Good Grief greygoose, thanks so much for this! I considered myself well informed but had never hear of the link to T3 and Cholesterol!!!! Was on statins for 10 years and had muscle problems and neuropathy... of course no doctor took it into consideration at all AND THEY QUADRUPLED THE DOSAGE to get my numbers down!!!! I feel like such an idiot for being conned for so many years. Absolutely convinced if I had not been on statins I would not have Graves. Also, depriving cholesterol is bad for the brain. Had massive neurological symptoms and was told "I needed to consider my problems were all psychological"....no one to connect the dots at all. Was far easier to believe a woman was a looney idiot! I was indeed an idiot.... for trusting them all for for so long... it all makes so much sense now.
I really don't think that taking statins would cause Grave's. It's low T3 that causes cholesterol to rise. But, low cholesterol does not cause the T3 to rise.
Are you sure you really had Grave's? Did they test the Grave's antibodies, TRAB or TSI?
But you're right about them wanting to prove a woman is insane, rather than looking for a physical cause!
I read on this forum how many people are undiagnosed for multiple years. I believe I was one of those.... and could have been hypo (for 5 years?) before hyper (for 3 years). That is POSSIBLY where my cholesterol problems might have begun. It's a interesting thing to consider.
Yes, definitely Graves, number of 525 when anything over 140 was Graves. Hashi test was stone cold 0 though. But most definitely had an allergic reaction to the statin drug when my eye was swollen, then a week later my lip was swollen, then hives for 1.5 years.
NO DOCTOR EVER suggested or thought it might have been the drug causing the problem. It was only 10 years later when they quadruped the dose of the statin because my numbers were "too high" that my body broke down. I do not resent being given the drug, what I do resent was there is no real consideration by many (most?) doctors to look at the drugs they are prescribing and consider the risks and adverse effects. I had classic allergic signs and was simply "booted along" to the next specialist. I tell my story only in the hopes that we share and perhaps learn from the mistakes we made....
Personally, I wouldn't say it is a thing to consider because:
* When you're hypo, your cholesterol rises due to the low T3. If you don't have enough T3 in your system, your body cannot process cholesterol correctly, and it mounts up in your blood.
* When you're hyper, you have high levels of T3 in your system, so the body processes cholesterol very well so the levels drop - and can drop to very low levels.
* So, when you 'went hyper' the levels would have dropped very quickly. They wouldn't have stayed stuck on high.
* Also, if you were hypo, you could not have 'gone hyper'. The thyroid just doesn't work like that. If it's so badly damaged, or affected by whatever, it can't suddenly reverse that damage that it starts over-producing.
So, you're saying that you have Grave's but high cholesterol? But, which number was 525? No point just giving a number without a name or a range, because that is meaningless.
And I very much doubt a test for TPO antibodies (the one they usually do for Hashi's) would be zero, because everyone has some in their system, even if they don't have full-blown Hashi's. But, you can have Hashi's without ever having raised antibodies.
However, I've never heard of statins causing either swollen eyes, lips or Grave's. Statins are bad, but they aren't endocrine disrupters. But, what were you taking for the presumed Grave's? Were you on anti-thyroid drugs? Maybe they were the problem. They sent you hypo which caused the cholesterol to rise. I'm afraid I don't really understand your story.
I am assuming you were prescribed statins if you're cholesterol level was high. In fact if hypo, our cholesterol will rise in some people, which will reduce as thyroid hormones are increased.
It is a clinical symptoms, i.e. higher cholesterol.
Excerpt from link below:
"If you have an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism), treatment may be delayed until this problem is treated. This is because having an underactive thyroid can lead to an increased cholesterol level, and treating hypothyroidism may cause your cholesterol level to decrease, without the need for statins. Statins are also more likely to cause muscle damage in people with an underactive thyroid.
This is mindblowing... I have Hypo and am not happy that is is actually being treated correctly..I also have High Cholesterol (6.7) and my GP is furious that I keep refusing Statins. I am 100% certain he doesn't have the faintest idea about a possible Hypothyroid connection. Frightening.
Of course he doesn't. He knows little about thyroid and nothing about cholesterol - except what Big Pharma sales-reps tell him. And, they just want to sell statins! He's losing money by you refusing them, so no wonder he's furious! lol
If you have any blood test results, post them here - or rather in a new thread - and let's have a look. It's more than likely that you're being treated inadequately.
Don’t want to interrupt someone else’s thread but!! I have an under active thyroid, AFib, a Chadvasc score of 4 and I’m over 75! I’m on statins but would really rather not be - but which way to go??
That sounds complicated. But, my personal believe, after all the reading I've done, is that cholesterol is not going to cause a stroke. Further more, statins don't work for women - and only work for men if they've previously had a heart attack.
It is not cholesterol causing your AFib. They just like to chuck statins at you at the slightest excuse. If it were me, I would tell them where to put their statins, given all the harm they can do - without any real benefits - but I feel you really must do your own research. And, if I were you, I would start with Dr Malcolm Kendrick, books and blog, and go on to Dr Broda Barns books.
But, to start you off, I'll link you to this wonderful article:
I blame the thyroid for my Afib. If I didn’t have such a high Chadvasc score I don’t think I would bother with statins. But being a female, over 75, and high blood pressure all adds up.
In any case, statins - as far as I know - have nothing to di with blood viscosity. And, as I said, statins just do not do anything for women, they don't have any effect on women. And they are not recommended for hypos - hypos really shouldn't take them.
High blood pressure can also be down to being hypo. Are you sure you're adequately medicated?
I rattle! 125 Levo, 2 different diuretics, beta-blocker, anti-coagulant and Atorvastatin. Cholesterol 4.3 on statin, 6.7 without. Guess I worry about plaque build-up versus clots in blood stream! Have stopped the statins no end of times then thought better of it. D
But the cholesterol is not responsible for the plaque. It is natures sticking plaster, and when there is damage to the blood vessels, it forms a sort of bandage over it, while it heals. That is why you're more likely to have a heart attack when cholesterol is low, than when it is high, because you don't have that natural healing agent. Cholesterol doesn't just form blockages in the arteries for no reason. That is a myth spread by Big Pharma to scare people and make them take statins.
By lowering your cholesterol with statins, you risk so many other health problems - all noted in that article I linked you to. Have you read it?
Being under-medicated doesn't mean how many pills you're taking, it means are you taking enough thyroid hormone.
And, no point telling me how much levo you're taking, that won't tell me if you're under-medicated. It's the blood test results that will tell us that: TSH, FT4 and FT3. But, on just 125 mcg, the likelihood is that you are under-medicated. It's only a low dose.
Yes, they would, because they don't understand anything about thyroid! They are just looking at your low TSH, and don't know that that tells them nothing on its own.
The most important number is the FT3, and yours is only just mid-range. You don't convert at all well. So, now your FT4 is lower than last year - a lot lower! - your FT3 is going to be lower, too, meaning that you are under-medicated. And, that is why your cholesterol is high, and you have heart problems.
What you need is not statins, it's some T3 added to your levo.
That's why it is necessary to join forums so that we can be helped to achieve good health if the professionals are uninformed. We can always double-check that the professional's advice is correct.
For instance I wonder how many of the following symptoms that are known as due to being hypothyroid will be prescribed another 'prescription' rather than ensuring that Free T4 and Free T3 are in the upper part of the ranges and TSH is 1 or lower. If TSH is 1 or lower doctors seem to 'jump' to a conclusion that we're now hyPERthyroid and will begin to adjust our dose, which can mean we are on a 'roundabout' of increases/decreases and not reaching an optimal dose.
My experience with an endo is that they are fixated upon the TSH rather than ensuring that our Free T4 and Free T3 are optimum. Rarely does the doctors test these two important resultls.
One of the last doctors to diagnose by clinical symptom alone, died a couple of years ago. For doing as he was trained as a medical student (he was a virologist) was being sent patients whose doctors stated they had 'mysterious' symptoms and they couldn't diagnose.
I assume that was because doctors took a blood test and the guidelines in UK state that we're not to be diagnosed until the TSH reaches 10. No mention of clinical symptoms.
The above doctor found the majority of patients he was being sent had hypo symptoms and prescribed for them. Evenutally as this doctor was getting many referrals, the authorities must have complained as he was called before the GMC more than once because he diagnosed and prescribed upon symptoms.
This is the story of one of his successes.
By the way, at the GMC at his last appearance - there were 10,000 testimonial letters bound in Red Ledgers from his patients whose 'lives Dr Skinner saved'. He was discharged as doing nothing wrong but there was no let up and he appeared several times before the GMC before the last one. Unfortunately for us (people travelled from all over the UK) he died and his staff have been collating all of their research and hope to published but am not sure when.
My experience was similar to yours. Cholesterol 8.7, put on statins which caused severe hip and back pain always at night so I was unable to sleep. At that point the doctor did a thyroid test and found I was hyperthyroid, put me on Levo, but didn’t stop the statins. I finally stopped them myself, but it took almost a year for the pains to disappear. I was foolishly persuaded to try a different statin as cholesterol was still high. Within two weeks the pains had returned. Stopped them immediately much to the GPS frustration with me.
When I finally persuaded them to increase my Levo to get the TSH down below 1 the cholesterol came down to 5.5. At that time I wasn’t doing private bloods so had no idea what the T3 reading was. I now know it’s gone up to at least to over half way through the range, TSH recently 1.2
If I try to raise T3 more so that it gets to the 75% area, the T4 goes above range and TSH goes to around 0.007. I’ve finally worked out that it’s the high T4 that gives me ectopic heart beats which I get if it take 125mg of Levo. I probably need some T3, but it’s a battle I’ve not even suggested to my GP.
Don't let them con you.... there are indeed severe side effects from statins for some people. My problem was I absolutely trusted my doctors, all of whom were very nice people, but kept getting bounced from specialist to specialist for those "other" problems that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH (ha!) the massive dose of statins I was given to "find the magic number" to get my cholesterol down.
See also my reply to greygoose.... Absolutely and utterly convinced I would not have Graves disease if I had gone off statins immediately after my first allergic reaction, but I stayed on them for 10 years, idiot that I was. Much smarter now. I found that changing to Paleo diet for 5 years not only put my Graves into remission (so far so good) but also radically lowered all my cholesterol numbers. I have never tested after that... some people need more cholesterol for their brain to function properly I am convinced. But everyone needs to consider their personal history and make their own informed decisions.
Before going off statins, I spoke with Dr. Beatrice Golumb, of the Statin Effect Study, at the University of California, San Diego (UCSD). Take a look a their website. It is very informative and helpful. She is a brilliant woman trying to get the word out, but there is simply too much money involved and her voice not being heard as it should.
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Endo says thyroid is not the cause of my problems - now what?
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Urgent response please - can these 'normal' results still lead to thyroid problems?
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