T3 pooling

[Hippyhappy234]

I think my T3 may be pooling - not getting in to my cells. Has anyone experienced this & what did you do to help this

[Kell-E]

Are you only taking T3 now? It seems like you said you stopped taking the ThyroGold. If it hasn't been very long since you stopped it may take a little bit to get your cells to acclimate.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to Kell-E]

Yes Kell-E, I’m taking t3 only & still putting on weight

[Kell-E in reply to Hippyhappy234]

How long ago did you stop the ThyroGold?

[Essybabe in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Are you monitoring your food intake?

[shaws Administrator]

I don't know anything about 'pooling' and take T3 only myself. What clinical symptoms do you have. What dose do you take and do you split does or take one dose. Do you take it away from food.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to shaws]

I’m taking 62.5mcg. I take 12.5mcg upon waking, 25mcg 5 hours after this, 12.5mcg 4 hours later & then 12.5mcg at bedtime.

My main problem at the moment is weight gain. I’ve put more weight on since taking t3 only.

Pooling is when t3 doesn’t get in to the cells & stays in the blood stream.

[fitmom50 in reply to Hippyhappy234]

So does that mean your Free T3 is high??? Is that how you test this? I have not heard of "pooling" either.

[Clutter]

Hippyhappy234,

T3 doesn't pool. STTM claim T4 can pool instead of converting to T3.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to Clutter]

I’ve read on that same website that t3 can pool too.

[Clutter in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Hippyhappy234,

How does T3 pool?

[Rac73 in reply to Clutter]

I’ve not read the full article but here’s an abstract from STTM

Under the heading ‘What is pooling’

Have you ever discovered that your free T3 lab result was very high and/or over-the-range with continuing symptoms or a low free T4??

This phenomena is what we, as thyroid patients, call “pooling”.

Pooling means your free T3 isn’t making it well to your cells, and instead, is hanging out in your blood, going higher and higher as you raise your T3-containing medication like Cytomel or natural desiccated thyroid. It can even happen with T4-only.

I too though it was just t4 that could pool in the system.

I think I may suffer with this when I’ve tried to increase my t3, probably due to both low iron and my adrenals.

[Clutter in reply to Rac73]

Rac73,

Isn't it likely FT3 is over range because someone is overmedicated?

I see people taking NDT with very low FT4 all the time although not always high or over range FT3 too.

[Rac73 in reply to Clutter]

I’m confused, but it doesn’t take much.

I was told I was pooling t4 when I was taking 2 grains of NDT, my t4 and t3 were towards the low end of the range.

I am now on t3 only.

[SilverAvocado in reply to Rac73]

If your freeT4 and freeT3 are at the lower end of the range, then you are undermedicated.

It would be weird to call that 'pooling', because whatever pooling is it suggests a large amount of hormone hanging around and not doing anything for you.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to SilverAvocado]

My free t3 is over the range. Results are in a previous post.

[SilverAvocado in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Sorry hippyhappy234, was replying to Rac73 who was saying their freeT3 and freeT4 were low.

[shaws Administrator in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Bear in mind that when the only thyroid hormone replacement - NDT was introduced that there were no blood tests at all then and doses were gradually increased until the person felt well. They weren't dictated by blood test results. They were diagnosed upon clinical symptoms alone and given a trial of NDT. If they felt better they were hypo .

Also blood tests introduced in the 50s/60's along with levothyroxine are for someone who takes levothyroxine alone. If anything else is taken, i.e. adding T3 to T4 or NDT the tests cannot correlate at all.

[Hidden in reply to Hippyhappy234]

I read and article by Dr.Weston Child a while ago where he stated that some people could gain weight from having T3 levels that are to high as well as gaining from T3 level being to low.

This whole thyroid thing is a maze of information and down right nutty at times.

[shaws Administrator in reply to Rac73]

Someone may be 'Resistant' to T3 in which it is difficult for it to get into the receptor cells but, to overcome this, they probably, finally, take a much higher dose than others to relieve their symptoms. This following link is by the same doctor who was an scientist/researcher/doctor and an expert in T3 as he took it himself so that's why he was an expert in thyroid hormone resistant.

The following archived link may be helpful. Also Dr L himself and his patients took one daily dose of T3. This is an excerpt and T3 is supposed to saturate all of our receptor cells which is more likely with one daily dose than splitting (besides the inconvenience of having an empty stomach and our day being consumed with taking tablets instead of a normal life). Excerpt:

Saturation isn’t likely to occur with sustained-release T3 because the T3 enters cells only in small amounts over an extended time. As a result, it’s not likely that large enough amounts of T3 will reach the receptors at one time to saturate them. But plain T3 in single doses enters cells in larger amounts. These larger amounts may provide the saturation needed to provoke transcription regulation by mutant T3-receptors. If so, these saturation amounts of T3 may induce waves of transcription that on the clinical level relieve symptoms of hypometabolism.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

I take T3 only myself in one daily dose and I've not looked back since I went onto T3 only.

[Angelic69 in reply to Clutter]

any idea what the symptoms of pooling are apart from blood tests revealing high t3, t4. I was once told that pesticides and other things contained within our food can mimic hormones and attached to the cell receptors so that our own hormones cannot get in. Would that create pooling.

[Clutter in reply to Angelic69]

Angelic69,

I've already said I don't believe T3 pools. High T3 and high T4 are usually due to overmedication.

[SilverAvocado]

I've had a skim back through your previous posts, and it looks like you've been skipping about quite a bit in what you're taking.

The only way you can know if you've got an unusual situation like thyroid hormone resistance, is to take things very slowly and systematically and rule out other possibilities.

I think you're currently taking T3-only, but in the last few months have also taken NDT and Thyro-gold? T3-only is a good format to go with if you suspect you're resistant to hormone, as the usual treatment for that is a large dose of T3 taken once a day.

But I think the first thing you should try to establish is whether you feel better on your recent dose, with an over range freeT3 than you do with a freeT3 within range. Which you can only do by trying each of them out for at least 6 weeks, and making very good notes about your symptoms, and ideally temperature and pulse, too. Then you'll have two sets of info to compare.

Jumping around from one thing to another you don't have good quality evidence what works for you and what doesn't.

[jpar]

The only time I had T3 pooling is when I was overmedicated and going into a thyroid storm. From what I have learned is that it doesn't always mean the medication is not going into your cells, it can mean that your body is trying to save you from and overdose by pooling the t3 or t4 whichever is causing it. When I was over overmedicated I also kept gaining weight. When the body detects too much thyroid hormone it can shut down your thyroid production through the negative feedback loop. Remember thyroid needs to be in the sweet spot. Not too high, not too low, just balanced. More is not better. And be careful of overdosing it can escalate very quickly if you don't know the symptoms such as heart palpitations, sweating, headaches or migraines, lights flashing, head buzzing, exercise intolerance, caffeine intolerance, more anxiety, trouble sleeping.....

[helbell]

Interesting thread. I too thought high T3 meant too high a dose...ummmm, following.

[Hidden]

I've had high T3 detected too, but still had hypo symptoms and low temperatures. I think having low iron levels doesn't help at all as iron is needed to take T3 to the cells. I didn't do well on T3 only and gained 1 1/2 stones, but it was the last batch of Mexican T3 a few years back before production was stopped. I'm always convinced I am very resistant to thyroid meds, when Dr Skinner was supervising me we just kept increasing doses, the last one was 200mg Levothyroxine and 3 grains of NDT, which didn't do much for me at all. It took 5 years to get my temps out of the 35's. I take both NDT and T3 now which is the best combination for me.

Re weight gain, my weight has only stabilised since removing gluten from my diet, there just isn't much you can munch on, and all the bad things are mostly carbs as they produce sugar in the body. I do buy gluten free bread but many days I don't eat any, it's an M&S high fibre seeded loaf, the texture is really good. So now I'm very low carb the weight is shifting, but slowly. I've lost 1 stone 4 lbs since September, but I feel more in control. I've been mostly housebound this last year or I believe the loss would have been a lot more.

[diogenes Remembering]

No such thing as T3 pooling. As said in other posts, the T3 you are making simply isn't enough. Pooling hypotheses really are not able to explain symptoms - the body does not pool but gets rid as quickly as possible if it doesn't want to suffer problems with inappropriate substances. Otherwise, as with toxic metals it binds them onto proteins and delivers as soon as it can to excretory mechanisms..

[Hidden in reply to diogenes]

I don't believe what your say at all from my own hell of an experience I had on levothyroxine for 11 years. I had a TSH low end in the NHS ref range, and low-end on the line range fT4 and a way over range free t3 ( 2.50 to 6.50) my ft3 was 16.5 or more . Bloods drawn 24 hours before levothyroxine. I had hypo symptoms yet felt intoxicated not just hyper but toxic on levothyroxine. It was horrible. And no endocrinologist or gp could read the results they were looking at. And I'm suffering. And they don't use any clinical judgement or have any understanding of Thyroid blood tests results. I'd have to miss levothyroxine for a few days at a time to become rid of the toxic symptoms. And the only way I resolved this problem was to raise my ferratin that at the time was 7 , in my boots. Not that any gp or endocrinologist thought that mattered on levothyroxine. It took ages to raise my ferratin so in the meantime I had to live a hypo life on a lower dose of levothyroxine but it was better than being intoxicated with levothyroxine but hypo at cellular level. My ft3 gradually got in range as my ferratin got to 70 plus on 150 mcg's of levothyroxine. That's the same 150 mcg dose that made me ill with a low ferratin. So yes I do believe in pooling absolutely.

[shaws Administrator in reply to Hidden]

I am sorry you have suffered unnecessarily as I did and most on this forum too searching for information. We have an inbuilt anger now with anything to do with hypo/doctors.

As you state, all vitamins/minerals have to be at optimum in order for everything to work in unison. GPs never take the FT4 and FT3s either, and I believe they only have a basic knowledge, i.e. take TSH and T4 and keep TSH in range and, have no clue clue why we are complaining when on T4. Although, as we know, many do get better on it.

They are, however, willing to give us prescriptions for the disabling symptoms we have.

diogenes being a researcher and scientis and he and his team had a paper accepted which proves that many on levo do need T3 to be added to T4.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/confer...

Not one doctor or specialist gave me a thyroid hormones test. I did, of course, have other diagnoses for things i didn't have - even an operation!.

It was a first aider who suggested 'thyroid' as he could see a swollen gland..

I had phoned from Scotland demanding a form to be left at Reception. I had to have assistance onto the plane and went straight to the A&E and kept in overnight and discharged as 'probably viral with high cholesterol'.

I thought I must be dying as I was bedridden but I got a blood test next day at 8 a.m. and GP phoned two hours later asking "who gave you a blood test form." I said " I requested it". She said you have hypothyroid come and get a prescription. I was bedridden but my husband got levo and that was the beginning of another awful journey. My TSH was 100.

After months the Endo added 10mcg of T3 to T4 and, immediately, I felt oxygen was reaching everything in my body but still unwell. At the next blood test I was told to stop T3 and I refused, so they said to reduce T4. I then knew I couldn't rely on the Endo and found Thyroiduk.org.uk who helped me recover my health and I tried NDTs too but it was only on T3 alone that I fully recovered and I buy my own.

If we are poor converters of T4 to T3 (even due to low vits/minerals) to enter our millions of T3 receptor cells we remain unwell. I am not in the least medically qualified like most on the forum and it was trial and error to get to good health and no symptoms.

I am glad you, too, are much better but it seems we have to educate ourselves and by trial and error recover but it isn't easy with doctors or endocrinologists who understand nothing about one of the most important hormones or know enough about clinical symptoms and how to relieve them..

Most of all it is the Endocrinology that have to start at the beginning by learning clinical symptoms and prescribing other than levo if patient isn't responding as they should.

Angelic69

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

I'm sorry for all you've been through. It's herrendous that you or any human being should suffer like that and almost or do actually die. They are getting away with too much. I don't go near now. I do my own b12 injections and dose my own t3. And I have done a better job at staying alive and well by far. I get so angry inside if they try to interfere or recommend the option of an endocrinologist if I ever need one. Never ever , Never. After the sufferings and near death coma would I go to them. I'm absolutely fine now. I hate them all. To everyone suffering. Never give up hope Because you can get better yourself by reading and with the invaluable support and advice here. There's no substitute for this site. We know, we've all suffered through the hands of so called doctors and endocrinologist. Who have all of us to answer for. We're all Saying the same thing about them and we're not accepting it no more. 🖕 to them all for all they have caused.

[shaws Administrator in reply to Hidden]

You are correct. Due to how we've been undiagnosed/untreated we've lost faith completely. I am really sorry that you also had a coma. How awful and in this modern age too.

Dr Skinner was right when he stated that patients were put in a parlous situation due to the guidelines with the emphasis being put on a blood test, not to diagnose until the TSH is 10 etc and not the symptoms. He even arranged a Conference (he being a virologist) and invited every single Endo and not one would attend to discuss the evidence that people aren't being diagnosed and one by one they refused. You wouldn't believe that another profession, especially ones that treat a particular portion of society would refuse.

Thankfully TUK and this forum and all our experiences help others undiagnosed or underdosed or on the wrong thyroid hormones.

[Angelic69 in reply to diogenes]

If your hypo everything is slower, bowel movements and chemicals can become toxic in such circumstances.

[Hippyhappy234]

I’m confused now. Shall I increase my dose which will leave me overmedicated with a high free t3 over the range or work on my iron issues.

[fibrolinda in reply to Hippyhappy234]

You really need to 'work on' your iron issues. Is your GP treating you for iron deficiency anaemia?? If not why not? It really is important and is not helping your thyroid issues at all. Hold your dose as is and get Anaemia sorted as matter of urgency is my humble advice/opinion. 🙂

[Kell-E in reply to fibrolinda]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Iron issues need to be worked out regardless. It really isn't one or the other.

[Hidden in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Work definitely on iron issues

[SilverAvocado in reply to Hippyhappy234]

I will advise to take it slow and systematic. I think you are now taking T3-only, at a slightly lower dose than you were on before?

I would just stick with T3-only long enough to find out if it works well for you. At least a few months. As you've jumped around so much before, maybe 4-6 months.

Stick where you are for at least 6 weeks. Take another set of blood tests, and then maybe adjust up or down depending on what they say. Make only a small change in one thing. Then stay with that for 6 weeks and test and adjust again.

Meanwhile work on the iron. You may have to adjust the T3 dose down the line when your iron is in better shape. But that's fine because you'll be adjusting your dose every 6 weeks anyway.

In maybe 6 months time, if you've got your blood tests looking perfect on T3 and your iron looks great, but you feel you want to try NDT or something else instead, then that's the right time to do it.

[DarcyJ]

chriskresser.com/selenium-t... Good read

[JennaShi]

Ive read that t3 is either created from the liver or something to do with the liver.. if you are taking t3 does it still go into your liver? Also doesnt the gut have something to do with absorption?

[Hidden in reply to JennaShi]

Everything in your body works better if your gut is in good shape. Your gut is 80 odd percent of your immune system. Almost all illnesses come through your gut. They are the walls of protection to your fortress, your body. Look after your guts and you live forever