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Buying high potency D3

Hi. My daughter has low D3 and as she won't go to the doctor I need to purchase high potency D3. I was looking on amazon at 20,000iu and planning to give her one a week to get her levels up from 38 (range 50-200). Has anyone bought from vitamintrend before as I don't see any reviews. Or can someone give me a reliable source. Many thanks Catlover3

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Give her Cod liver Oil instead its far better

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Can you explain why?

And how much cod liver oil might be needed - perhaps to achieve a dose of 20,000 IU?

And how much retinol (preformed vitamin A) that would contain?

And what a reasonable upper dose of retinol might be?

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Puzzled as to where Retinol comes into the equation but maybe i have missed something from the OPs postings

But i understand that high strength vit D is actually synthetic and is not best thing to take

That pure Cod Liver Oil like Seven Seas is more complete , better absorbed and less likely to throw everything else off balance ( same reasoning as liver is recomended rather than iron supplements ) i would assume she will need at least a tablespoon a day but i am not close to a cod liver oil source currently so cant check

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Retinol is present in cod liver oil - that is why I asked my questions. And an excess can cause many problems.

What do you mean by synthetic? Expose (natural) lanolin to ultraviolet (which could be "natural" if you used sunlight).

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If it is definitely lanolin exposed to sunlight then it may be fine

But i have repeatedly read thst Cod liver Oil is best source

Need to track the research which backs that up and post it

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Wiki - though far from perfect - can be a very quick and easy way of doing a check:

Industrial production

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) is produced industrially by exposing 7-dehydrocholesterol to UVB light, followed by purification. The 7-dehydrocholesterol is a natural substance in fish organs, especially the liver, or in wool grease (lanolin) from sheep. Vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol) is produced in a similar way using ergosterol from yeast or mushrooms as a starting material.

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A lot of vit D3 now a days is also made from lychnis another natural source, I definitely agree that cod liver oil is unlikely the best way forward as the majority of brands available have had most of the natural beneficial nutrients destroyed during the extraction process due mainly to heat, these company’s then replace these vital vit etc. by replacing them with artificial alternatives many of which can be toxic in higher doses, also artificial replacements are not always tolererated quite so well by are body’s, particularly people who suffer from hypothyroidism.

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One tablespoon of cod liver oil may contain up to 14,000iu of Vit A, upper safe limit to consume is 10,000iu per day so toxicity is a real issue.

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And, according to my extremely cursory calculation, you might need 15 tablespoons of cod liver oil to supply the 20,000 IU quoted up-thread.

(Based on "According to the United States Department of Agriculture, a tablespoon (13.6 grams or 14.8 mL) of cod liver oil contains 4,080 μg of retinol (vitamin A) and 34 μg (1,360 IU) of vitamin D.")

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Seems like Bantam has found a different calculation ........i am still leary of hitting the body with high dose Vitd3 since it must be counterbalanced by magnesium , k2 and boron if its going to assist calcium into bones not line arteries

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In which case 1 teaspoon twice a day should be adequate but in conjunction with magnesium and K2 and boron to ensure calcium in the diet is absorbed into the bones and does not line the arteries ...theres no need fro calcium spplements BTW

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How much vitamin D does that supply?

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I dont know because i do not have a bottle of Cod liver Oil available right now

Bantam has clearly looked at one but irrespective to hit the body with 20,000 iu and not balance it with enough magnesium,k2 and boron does not seem sensible

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You just had to look at my earlier response - 1360 IU in one tablespoon of cod liver oil. Typically, a tablespoon is three teaspoons (approximately), so that works out around 906 IU.

The original poster, to whom you so strongly recommended cod liver oil, was asking about high dose vitamin D, and mentions 20,000 IU.

How much magnesium, K2 and boron should be taken with 20,000 IU of vitamin D?

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"theres no need fro calcium spplements BTW." I agree, providing one consumes a good amount of dairy. The condition of my fingernails tells me if I'm getting enough calcium (I supplement magnesium heavily and take probably the best vitamin K complex, Koncentrated K, and also supplement Vit D). As someone else may have said too much calcium from food is not a problem as we only extract what we need.

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It's said that daily dosing is more effective.

You can buy 5000iu soft gels , Doctor's Best or Now Foods both do one with just 2 ingredients - D3 and olive oil to help absorption, much better than capsules or tablets.

There are important cofactors needed when taking D3 - K2-MK7 and magnesium.

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems. Magnesium helps the body to use D3.

D3 and K2-MK7 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattest meal of the day.

Start supplements individually, start with D3, leave a week or two to see if any reactions before adding the next one, etc.

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I agree with seasidesusie, I follow a vitamin d protocol, using dr best vitamin d3, vitamin k2-mk7 and magnesium. My levels have increased and feel so much better

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seaside Susie

I am unable to have Vit K .

I am vit D deficient and need to take D3. Is it ok to take it with or without calcium?

I stopped taking it because the brand I bought did not seem to suit me hence need to order some thqt is free from any additives esp gluten, wheat, maize starch , amaranth, soy .... Need to order some more.

Thanks.

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"Is it ok to take it with or without calcium?"

You don't take calcium unless tested and known to be deficient. D3 aids absorption of calcium from food so calcium levels will probably rise. This is why K2-mk7 is recommended, so that the calcium is directed to bones and teeth and away from arteries and soft tissues.

Why are you unable to take K2?

Two brands that I have used contain no added ingredients, only D3 and extra virgin olive oil to aid absorption, very small softgels :

Doctors Best

Now Foods

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hi Thanks for your quick response. My dr told me only yesterday not to take Vit K or K2 due to being on warfarin, life long. I also have a renal cyst 20mm in diameter and this has to be monitored every few months. Non malignant. Dr came to see today I just asked him to look at a wart like growth under left breast expecting him to say its nothing to worry about. Then asked how long it had been there , a few weeks - then said he was referring me to the breast clinic, feel in shock.Thanks.

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I am just off to bed now but will forget to come back in the morning to reply so will add this now.

It is K1 that is the clotting agent, the one they inject in hospital. I did a post a while ago about this, check out the links and you might want to do further research about it.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

You might want to ask your GP what he suggests if you don't take K2, I think at the very least regular calcium testing should be done while you are taking D3.

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Thanks Seaside Susie, will read the links. Many thanks for your help and also clutters et al it is much appreciated.

x

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Catlover3,

I would give her a loading doses of 10,000iu daily for six weeks then reduce to 5,000iu daily for 6-8 weeks and retest. VitD should be taken 4 hours away from Levothyroxine. My sister's GP prescribed 2 x 20,000iu per week when her vitD was 40 and it took most of a year for her vitD to rise >75.

I don't know that seller but if you are buying on Amazon please use the Thyroid UK affiliate link healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

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Just an aside, when taking T3 in divided doses (4/day) it's virtually impossible to take Vit D3 4 hours away from thyroid meds! Not much to be done about it - unless I were to take it in the middle of the night!

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Coppernob,

Why on earth are you taking T3 x 4 times a day?

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Why on earth wouldn't I take T3 (liothyronine) 4 times s day??

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Coppernob,

Because it makes it difficult to schedule taking it away from food and drink, supplements like vitD and magnesium, and some meds. 3 x daily dosing is usually sufficient and more manageable.

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You're right about the difficulty of organising around food and other meds etc. But I find 4/day works for me in terms of getting just enough but not too much T3 at each dose. I'll bear what you say in mind though.

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I was advised to add vitamin K.. apparently high levels of D can cause kidney stones..?

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That was good advice!

To quote Patrick Theut of k-vitamins.com "when you take a Calcium supplement the body has to do something with the Calcium - - - and there you get (kidney) stones and CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) especially when (vitamins) ADK ratio is off. when you have Calcium in your food, your body signals the gut bacteria to only liberate what you need. it is in reality a tightly regulated system"

100mg of vitamin B6 per day avoids kidney stones, don't know if this still works when calcium supplements taken.

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Does anyone know if either vit D or calcium can cause renal cysts?

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Hi. I am not a doctor but am a retired Buyer for a UK health food company. I know the Cod liver oil that our company used was fortified with both Vit D3 and Vit A.

By this I mean synthetically manufactured Vit D3 and Vit A are added to the Cod liver oil as the naturally occurring levels are low and reduce during the manufacturing process so synthetic vitamins are added to boost the levels back up.

For this reason I would not recommend Cod liver oil to provide your daughters vitamin D3 as the dosage required would mean an overdose of vitamin A which is not good.

Far better to visit a GP and get the prescribed vitamin D3 tablets if that is the treatment that they recommend.

Maybe you can persuade your daughter to go to the GP and go with her if she is nervous?

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Thank you contributing that very interesting nugget of information.

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The Vitamin D Council recommends 5,000 IU per day for the average person. They do not recommend much larger doses once per week. And one of the products they like a lot is 5,000 IU Vit D from BioTech Pharmacal. That's the one I take, after seeing it on their website. Your daughter's level of 38 is not very low at all. The Vitamin D council recommends a blood level of 50. I think that's a very good target and would not want to go above 60. Good luck.

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The 60 is ng/L - I think the poster is in the UK - where the measurement is pmol/L and so 100 is the suggested level. VitD Council is in the US.

Bolus dosing not as effective as daily dosing - I agree as mentioned in links below.

grassrootshealth.net

vitdcouncil.org

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Yes, the Vitamin D Council is in the US. They recommend a Vitamin D blood level of 50, and that is ng/ml. M Holick, who is an expert in Vitamin D, recommends a blood level of 40-60 ng/ml.

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.... and in the UK the measurement is pmol/L - so a level of 100 is good 😊

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marz If BH do the tests do they use UK values. May seem a daft question but I am feeling pretty low today.

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Yes they use UK measurement for VitD.

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I use Liposomal D3 1000iu with K2 from Ancient Purity. I prefer this liquid form and believe it absorbs quickly and take it with a fat in the morning, either coconut oil or with an avocado. They also have magnesium in a spray which I use. ancientpurity.com/liposomal...

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I wouldn't go down the cod liver oil route due to the high levels of heavy metal pollution in the oceans. A great source to buy high strength vitamin d3 is Nature's Best. A fab and trusted site that sells high strength everything at very reasonable prices😊

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You cannot purchase D3 any stronger than 3000iu on Amazon in the UK. You can get 10000iu here if that’s any help. gbiotics.com/products/vitam...

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Thank you all for your replies although I am more confused than I was before. Its really difficult to know what to do when there is so much conflicting information regarding the dosage of D3. My elder daughter was deficient and the gp gave her 40,000iu to be taken once a week for 7 weeks, no mention of adding K2 or magnesium, or to continue supplementing on a lower dose. Now I am wondering if these large doses caused her to have pain in her neck arteries and seizures which do appear to coincide with her taking the tablet. It seems strange or is it just coincidence that she hasn't had a seizure since....I just don't know. I personally take D3 spray...when I remember, and it was very good for bringing up my levels to 109 in a short space of time. Unfortunately the spray causes my other daughter to get tooth ache and mouth ulcers so not any use for her. The trouble is she is taking so many supplements that it is hard to fit them in with having to avoid taking x with y and some on an empty stomach, and some with food...it gets too much for her to remember.

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If two supplements compete for absorption it may be possible to overcome this by increasing dosage of one of them, this may also apply to empty stomach / with food.

I take fish oil, magnesium malate, vitamin K, vitamin D, CoQ10, vitamin B6 and 1 Life Extension Two-Per-Day multi, all together in the middle of a fatty lunch.

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Vitd can cause problems for some people so possibly better to avoid the high doses.

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I have never understood the preoccupation with high doses exhibited by the medical establishment (once they accept vitamin D is important).

With thyroid hormone, I am convinced that careful, steady, daily dosing (or even more frequent) is the key. And I can see little to no evidence that high dosing with vitamin D should not be handled similarly. The one proviso is that if we consider the real world, and our own vitamin D production, well, one day might be sunny, the next cloudy. So production will vary significantly. But it isn't as if people live in the very dark for six days, then naked in the sun for one day. Further, the dosages discussed are, I think, much higher than our own bodies can make in a day.

I also wonder whether it is worth bothering with 20,000 IU capsules - why not just take four 5,000 IU ones? And have the flexibility to adjust dose if felt necessary.

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I agree, the Endo I once saw never prescribed high doses of vitd because of the risk of an adverse reaction, better to start low and see how it goes.

It also has to be said that maybe we don't all need high levels of vitd, everyone has their own set points and if pushed over then things go wrong. Personally I cannot tolerate vitd and there is no way I would ever get my level to the numbers advised, I'm quite comfortable where I am with vitd at around 30.

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Dr. Coimbra reckons that we should all take 10,000iu of Vit D per day and up to 300,000+ if one has MS or other autoimmune disease (under medical supervision, of course). (Dr. Coimbra has been successfully treating autoimmune diseases with Vit D for over 20 years.) I have not read of one single adverse reaction to high doses of Vit. D (not a vitamin) however, high doses must be treated with caution due to the deposition of calcium, otherwise I have not read of any other adverse reactions. (Those on ultra-high doses avoid all calcium intake.).

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There are common reactions and severe allergic reactions reported with vitd supplements, some people with certain medical conditions should not take vitd.

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Are these common and severe allergic reactions caused purely by the vitD or possibly by brands or/and types of vitD taken?

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I have seen someone suffer from vitamin D in numerous forms. Entirely different products, over many years, with or without K2. Including applying topically as well as orally.

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Vitamin D toxicity is real very and can be very harmful. I sure hope Dr Coimbra is testing those people taking 10,000 iu daily on a regular basis. People taking high doses regularly without testing are insane. Even people taking lower doses shoukd test at least once a year.

Years ago one summer, incombination where I was out in the sun for 8 hr a day, wearing sunscreen and sun protection, and taking 5,000 daily of D, but the doctor didn’t follow up and test me. Then I started getting sick. My D rose to 265!, toxic levels. 100 was highend of range.

Years later, fast forward to couple summers ago. I was taking 10,000 iu 4x week and exposed to sun, despite sun protection. My D rose to 110.

This past summer, 10,000 iu 3x/week, sun protection as usual, and I had remained steady at 80.

Why do I take 10,000 iu? Because it’s the only one at the pharmacy that doesn’t contain soy. All the others do. Pharmacy has 2 for 1 on occasion, so it’s extremely cost effective at that dose and that price. Sure, I could buy it elsewhere at lower dose iu, but why fix what isn’t broken. With this routine 3x weekly in summer, 4x weekly in winter, my D level has been steady at 80-90 for a few years.

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Taken with K2, of course, and mag.

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I have the Incite D3 5000iu from amazon. Comes in a years supply of 365 tabs. It’s around £6 on prime. Tiny tablets, barely need water with them. They’ve brought my D levels up from critically low to mid range. I have 1 a day from Sept to May, then every other day May to Aug.

If she’s low on D she’ll probably be low on calcium too, I’d add that in along with C to help with absorption. I use Nu U vit school @1000mg 180 tabs per pot (any that your body doesn’t need you wee out as it’s a water soluable vit) and Solgar calcium, magnesium & zinc 100 tabs per pot.

Both of these I do on Amazon using subscribe and save. Means I don’t have to remember to order them, 1 or more items you get 5% discount, rising to 15% for 5 items or more.

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Vitd can be low but calcium level high, this happens in hyperparathyroidism so actually taking extra calcium without testing can be dangerous.

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Eowyn3066

"If she’s low on D she’ll probably be low on calcium too, I’d add that in along with C to help with absorption."

No, that's bad advice.

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food so calcium level is likely to rise when supplementing with D3. This is why k2-mk7 is important to take when supplementing with D3 - it directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as calcification of arteries, kidney stones, etc.

Calcium should not be supplemented unless tested and found to be deficient.

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My d3 level was very low (can't remember exactly how low as it was a while ago). My go to products are more often than not, Solgar so I researched various products and found that Solgar liquid vit d3 brought my levels up very quickly. At my followup blood test my vit d3 was above recommended levels. I'm now slightly above the recommendation but that's exactly where I want to be as NHS recommendations are far too cautious, in my humble opinion. I now take a maintenance dose of a few drops a couple of times a week. Solgar liquid d3 provides 2500IU/0.5ml and contains only natural orange flavour and sunflower seed oil

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I wouldn't go down codliver oil route either catlover. If you want extra omega 3's (good idea) choose Green Lipped Mussel (uncontaminated source NewZealand - from amazon) You can take capsule or open capsule up and sprinkle on food - but has fishy smell. I have capsule everyday and open up and sprinkle on my dogs food - but she doesn't mind fishy taste. Or even Krill oil.

Whatever you do, don't give a dose of vit D once per wk - it doesn't work like that. I will post researcher 30yrs of vit D Dr Bruce Hollis video lecture when have chance to find. Need vit D every day esp for immune system health. He explains in video.

If you want to have any questions answered re vit D and pre pregnancy/pregnancy/ healthy baby and children go to Grassroots website. researchers into vit D and in conjunction now omega 3's. Email them - unbelievably got back to me when I was asking re my daughter inlaws pregnancy.

I buy Natures anser vitamin D3 drops. did used to sell on amazon - last looked didn't. So website planet organic .com (uk site) states 4000 iu on label thats per serving. each drop contains 2000iu. so easy to high dose if wish. But lasts for months/yr so not expensive

My daughter inlaw was advised to take 6-8000 iu per day when pregnant and similarly when breast feeding, critical for baby's brain development as a foetus and child. Smaller bodies need less when no longer breast feeding but a lot more than 400iu the daily recommended allowance by UK and thats for mum, I think 100iu for child - stonage advice Clinician at Pure Health .co.uk wrote recently that if feels unwell/cold etc takes 25000iu per day and then reduces.

Dr Hollis and many Functional Nutritional doctore take a daily amount of 4000iu and raise if feel immune health needs boosting/coming into contact with colds etc.

But a child's size and weight may alter doseage, email Grass Roots Research Council (US)

Adults should never take vit D or get a good dose from the sun without taking vit K2, note that is not K1. See book or video lectures The Calcium Paradox an unknown vitamin that may save your life. By Kate Rheume Bleaue. Food sources should be fine for a child. So high fat cheese especially cheeses made using specific strains of bacteria - Brie, Ghouda, Camembert, possibly Cheddar and yellow grass fed herds producing butter, (guersney butter only available waitrose or french Isle d'isigny) and other fat soluble vitamins, so A, E, D , K2. all work together. So best don't feed your child a low fat diet.

Also Ivor Cummins gives a great presentation on You tube video, one about cholesterol and fat, and one called the vit D debacle. Both very informative, especially if you have worries re cholesterol and a higher fat diet.

Dr Hollis video below re Vit D3 dosing

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Trouble with cod liver oil is it oxidizes easily- is a polyunsaturated oil, they all do. Probably oxidized before you even get or leaves manufacturing plant. Many olive oil producers have to refine that vitamins stripped out of in process and then they add back in the vit A and D but are artificial lab vitamins. All a mess if you ask me. There was a time when fermented cod liver oil was promoted as being the safest but still suspect re oxidation. Oxidation causes free radical cascade in your body.

Green lipped mussel is just powdered mussel. So similar to eating a mussel but you probably wouldn't eat mussels everyday so a way to get. Or rely on eating small oily fish of fatty fish like salmon. But must not be farmed fish/ salmon. Must be wild salmon. Farming practices make eating farmed salmon toxic and not environmentally friendly either - research if you wish.

But unlikely to get enough vit D from eating fish (you need some Omega 3's so a good thing. But make it fresh fish not the oil. As like veg oils (polyunsaturated - go rancid/oxidized but even if not when enter body - they are unstable as missing a carbon atom I think it is and so pinch one and so the cascade starts creating inflammation.

If your daughter is grown/adult take green lipped mussel, vit K2 and vit D drops. Poss 10, 000 per day until get levels up high over 100nmol 125-150nmol optimal. Then reduce to 4000 per day. Grass Roots do a disease chart - level of blood vit D required to prevent specific diseases. I think that may prompt your daughter into action :)

Remember this is US chart. They measure in NG we measure in nmol/L which means have to multiply US ng by 2.5 times 50ng is 125 nmol/L

vitamindwiki.com/Chart+of+V...

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Please note I meant fish oil/codliver oil NOT olive oil :(

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Waitrose sells fast frozen at sea blocks of fish Roe very cheaply - I'm told its a great source of natural Vit D, and its got 20% off on Fridays as its sold from the fresh fish counter (you might have to have a myWaitrose card to get this discount, I can't remember). I thaw it, give it a quick fry, and have rather a lot of it on a slice of toast. I also buy the unpasteurised butter there (there d'Isigny one), it won't be the best K2 source, but it also isn't the worst, and is better than just about anything else.

Anyone know what this amounts to in IUs? (approx of course).

I also take the green lipped mussel powder, from NZ, and buy it online as a powder - much cheaper than capsules - and add it at the end of cooking in small quantities to everything liquid I cook (gravy, soup, bolognaise). I never realised it was omega 3 rich. Ta vm for the info.

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Just how much fish roe do you eat?

You can see quite a range of vitamin D content claims. Perhaps 5 to 25 IU per gram is the most common. So 100 grams could be from 500 to 2500 IU. But I'd class that as a lot of fish roe.

This site claims 484 IU in 100 grams:

ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...

That was raw - cooked there is NO claim of any vitamin D:

ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...

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As far as I’m aware Dr. Coimbra does not think that 10,000iu of Vit D3 per day is at all high. His protocol for MS, etc. is done under supervision, with one of his trained doctors, as the doses are usually above 100,000iu per day. I recall that I had a Vit D test done by the nhs and my GP said that I had adequate Vit D (cannot recall what the level was now) but my private doctor, who had arranged the test, said that my Vit D was too low as the nhs used the wrong scale. You may like to look up the Coimbra Protocol - an amazing man.

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Hi, I am a pharmacist, you can buy 20,000 iu vit d3 over the counter. they are called Hux D3. check your local pharmacy if you are in UK. daily recommended dose (maintenance) is 800IU for adults

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Hi. Was just wondering when supplementing with Vit D 1000ug how much magnesium and K2 one should take. I have been advised my GP to take Vit D all year round and when asked him for a Vit D test he said that he would not test for it. Not sure why. I have started to supplement with Vitamin D3 as stated and have felt bones cracking and feeling tired. Is this normal. I take some Magnesium probably not enough. Please help. Also what type of Magnesium is the better kind citrate etc. I also have terrible anxiety and jittery nerves. Any advices please. Commenced on Levothyroxine last September and recently increased to 75mcg. It helps but I also don’t feel great. Thanks.

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Nionyn

GP won't test unless they feel it is necessary because it is expensive for the surgery. You can do a home fingerprick blood spot test with City Assays for £28 vitamindtest.org.uk/index.html

K2-mk7 normally comes in 90-100mcg doses and that is enough for up to 10,000iu D3.

You need to choose the magnesium form which is most suitable for you and take what it says on the pack naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

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Hi Nionyn, Kae Rhueame Bleue the author of 'The calcium paradox: a little known vitamin that could save your life' states 200mcg possibly 100-200mcg. Book well worth buying. crammed full of info on influence of K2 re different health conditions (a definite go to ) Explains how K2 works in the body. could watch you tube video of K R Bleue presenting if would rather. The best resource re K2 is Dr Chris Materjohn 'Vitamin K2 Resource' or see his face book page. Incredible info. He is a researcher really studies his stuff before jumping to conclusions. The K2 Resource is full of info - food source info, difference between K2 Mk and Mk7 etc

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You can buy D3 with k2. The drops last a long time and it's easy to adjust the dose:

amazon.co.uk/Nutri-Advanced...

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Hi Josies mum, I have looked at combined but the K2 is not good enough ratio usually, different brands. Your link does not show K2mcg and D3iu per drop. Can you post amounts? Would be interesting, also how do they make the K2 what medium do bacteria feed on (bacteria make K2) And is vit D3 from natural source eg lanolin? Natures answer is 2000iu per drop - taking a few drops per day lasts for 6months easily. Pure Nature (amazon) vit K2 substrate medium fermented organic non GMO Natto is 100mcg per capsule. Is my choice and seems cost effective. We eed 100mcg of K2 min. Kate Rhueame Bleue recommends 100-200mcg per day.

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You should have a test before supplementing, you can buy a test yourself from cityassays or betteryou.

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Personally I think she should go to her doctor. Too much conflicting advice in these threads

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