Adrenals then thyroid

Hi,

After much confusion, NHS, private blood and saliva testing over the last 6-8 months, it seems like I need to address adrenals before thyroid

Full blood panels indicate my thyroid, although not brilliant, has been stable and in range for the last 2 years and antibodies are significantly reduced. My saliva cortisol showed however, showed low levels, especially AM (the result mirrors my fatigue, cognition, motivation and mood symptoms). The only issue being the saliva test reliability, as cortisol levels v prone to variation of % of water in saliva.

I'm concerned that thyroid boosters will worsen my adrenals by creating a bigger gap in the functionality between the two - my thyroid seems healthier than my adrenals atm.

I'm planning on getting some NZ- sourced adrenal glandulars and seeing how that goes. I started L-Seleniumethionine last week and I think I should actually stop this ASAP and wait to see what adrenal supplements do instead

Any thoughts please?

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

I have just done a saliva adrenal test (Regenerus) and it said something about not drinking water XX minutes before doing the sample, so if following that advice then sample should be fine and result accurate.

I've just started Adrenavive as all 4 of my levels were right at the bottom, virtually a straight line.

I have been taking 200mcg selenium L-selenomethionine daily for a long time, it helps with conversion of T4 to T3 (and helps lower antibodies) and I've not heard of it affecting cortisol levels. But as you've only just started taking it then it might be an idea to leave it off and see how the adrenal glandulars helps first.

[Niklew in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi I just wondered what made you choose adrenevive?I was looking at women’s sense adrena sense but trying to chose one is difficult as there are so many!

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Niklew]

It was recommended to me.

I previously had cortisol results at the top of their ranges and my practioner recommended that I took adaptogens to lower it. I left it far too long before retesting and now everything has gone to the bottom of their ranges. Adrenavive is mentioned a lot for low cortisol so I was happy to go along with the recommendation.

Adrenavive is an adrenal glandular and used to raise cortisol. I hadn't heard of Adrena Sense and have found it and looked at the ingredients:

Rhodiola root, Pfaffia Paniculata, Eleutherococcus senticosus (Siberian ginseng), Ashwagandha are all adaptogens and will lower cortisol

So you would use Arena Sense to lower cortisol and Adrenavive will raise cortisol.

[Niklew in reply to SeasideSusie]

Brill thank you! Mine sound like yours and came back low for 8 am, 12pm and just about in range for 4pm but too low to measure at 8 ( but I think low is good for 8pm anyway). So def need to raise mine. I’m waiting to see endo( gp referred but told it’s 4-8 months wait so booked a private one which is in 5 weeks).

Where did you buy your supply from? I can’t seem to find uk stockists .

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Niklew]

What did the comments say with your test results? Were any under range - can you post the results? Was there any mention of Addison's?

I am not an adrenal expert.

There is Adrenavive l (160mg), ll (125mg) and lll (250mg). I have gone for Adrenavive ll and have started with half a capsule daily and will raise to 1 capsule daily. This is an experiment so I am not advising what you should do, it's just what I am doing, and I will be retesting after 3 months to check levels.

the-natural-choice.co.uk/Gl...

[Niklew in reply to SeasideSusie]

Yes both morning and 12 pm were under range but the doc did a 9am blood cortisol which came back at 260- range being 132-550 so think it rules out Addison’s although he referred me anyway due to hair loss etc and not really knowing how else to treat me. My vitamins etc are all good - thanks the help on this site I got them to top ranges. I was on levo for 8 weeks then taken off as they think it wasn’t my thyroid ( although I disagree and felt I should stay on). So I figured it was worth paying privately and finding out the the bleep I should do.. thank you for your help! Def going to look into your suggestion. Just looking on google and it has allot of information on there and good reviews of the one you are using

[Portia1974 in reply to SeasideSusie]

SeasideSusie have just ordered the adrenavive I . (Have had morning cortisol tests which both returned "in range" but low and am not happy to sit at that level) How have you got on with these?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Portia1974]

Portia

I didn't use Adrenavive l, it is the whole adrenal gland. I started with Adrenavive ll which is the adrenal cortex which wasn't enough to help, I am now using Adrenavive lll which is a higher dose of adrenal cortex. I have a few weeks to go before retesting to see what difference it had made to results.

[Portia1974 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Oh crikey. Have I ordered the wrong thing?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Portia1974]

Portia

I was advised to start with Adrenavive ll and progress to Adrenavive lll if necessary.

Recent post explaining what the different glandular products contain here healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

I believe it's the adrenal cortex that produces the different steroid hormones.

[Portia1974 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks!

[Niklew in reply to SeasideSusie]

Don’t worry found it! I googled adrenevive! I’d read about Thorne bovine but will take a look at yours

[Hidden in reply to SeasideSusie]

I've taken ashwagandha twice - 4 years ago and it give me too much energy (raised cortisol), last year I took it at night, it helped me sleep, but I used to wake in the middle of the night/next morning feeling instantly fluey - lowering cortisol! Apparently its usefulness depends on how far along people are with their adrenal fatigue.

After the low saliva test values I had an NHS 9.15 am result of 309 in Sept - indicated I wasn't Addisonian, however, they reckon the thought of needle jabs increases cortisol temporarily which over-reports the serum value. I would have been happier at 409!

I have Jarrow's Adrenal Optimizer, it has a confusing / counteractive ingredients list: Licorice root extract, Gotu Kola, Eleuthero, Ashwagandha KSM66, Rhodiola and Schizandra. Apart from licorice, the rest are all suppressants! It's going in the bin.

I have licorice root extract powder which I've not taken for a while, it is indicated as an AF treatment. It definitely raises cortisol (quickly), which will strain the adrenals. It also raises BP and anything that raises cortisol generally reduces testosterone.

Grapefruit juice is another good one for boosting cortisol, less harsh than licorice.

Seems like self-treating cortisol is a delicate balancing act, moreso than for thyroid, too much cortisol wreaks physical and mental havoc, too little is no good either. I will be buying adrenavive or v. similar soon.

[Noelnoel in reply to SeasideSusie]

Adrenavive seems to be the first choice and has been recommended by my practitioner. There are three or perhaps four levels: l, ll, lll and lV I think. Some contain all the adrenal gland and some only part. You really should know what your body requires before deciding which to go for. You can buy them online but Procepts (where I buy mine) sells only on recommendation by a practitioner

[Hidden in reply to Noelnoel]

Yeah, apparently whole glandular extracts (Medulla and Cortex - Adrenavive I) boost both cortisol and adrenaline - this tends to make people who already have high levels of adrenaline jittery/anxious, not ideal if low cortisol is already amping up your anxiety.

Adrenavive II is 125mg of the Adrenal Cortex only, level III is the exact same product at 250mg per capsule.

The safest bet for people like myself who want to see how they respond (without further testing / private consultations beyond any saliva and serum sampling they've already had done) would be 125mg/d of the Cortex-only and increase as needed.

Doing the maths, It looks like I'll be buying Adrenavive III and just take half a capsule (weighed) - giving 180 x 125mg at around £40 incl p&p. Adrenavive II is 90 125mg caps at around £30. If I found 125mg insufficient, I'd take a full cap and still have 90 doses, whereas if I buy Level II and find I actually need 2 caps, thats only 45 doses. For an extra £10 you cover both bases, its a no brainer - assuming the Cortex is appropriate.

And no, I have no affilliation with the supplier, I'm just cost savvy!

[Noelnoel in reply to Hidden]

Couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I do. It's a bit of guess work as to exactly what half a capsule is but as I take a morning and afternoon dose, then over the course of the day I take a whole capsule

[Hidden in reply to Noelnoel]

I'm hoping to get by on 125mg/d so I'll be using my digital scales to weigh out exactly

[Noelnoel in reply to Hidden]

I wish you all the best in your quest for health and equilibrium; physically and mentally

[wellness1]

This is an interesting discussion. I'm definitely not an adrenal expert either, but my understanding of adaptogenic herbs is that they do not consistently suppress or increase adrenal function, but rather act to regulate levels, rather like a thermostat.

From Izabella Wentz, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis:

[...]an adaptogen [...] should help the body to return to "normal," regardless of how stress is currently affecting the person's functioning. In other words, an adaptogenic herb needs to be able to both tone down overactive systems and boost underactive systems in the body. Adaptogens are thought to normalize the HPA axis."

Of course, just because something is supposed to have a certain effect, doesn't mean it will in any given individual. (Levothyroxine, anyone?) So I'm very interested in hearing people's experiences.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to wellness1]

Wellness - yes that's exactly how I understood it worked. It was recommended for my top of range cortisol levels but now they have flatlined right at the bottom of all 4 samples. So somewhere during the time I was taking it I expect my levels were in a good place but I didn't feel it and I left it too long to retest. It obviously did the job of lowering cortisol but didn't keep it in the right place and carried on lowering it. So now I'm having to start again to try and raise it this time with the Adrenavive but will be keeping a close eye on it. Such a roller coaster all this thyroid business is

[Hidden in reply to SeasideSusie]

From about 2013 onwards, I tried various supplements in sequence, sometimes in tandem, including Seriphos (Phosphorylated Serine) to combat stress/high cortisol and sleep issues (Stage 1 AF?). Seriphos was quite powerful, I took it on and off for over 2-3 years with no cortisol testing, so there is a good chance I overused it. That combined with exercising hard, followed by nightmare 2017 in terms of stress may well have tipped my HPTA system into a low cortisol state.

I've now banned all cortisol lowering supplements from my list of useful tools,but like you say, its a fine balance. I've realised that going on symptoms to assess effectiveness is insufficient because its easy to over-run and testing is important too.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Hidden]

"I've realised that going on symptoms to assess effectiveness is insufficient because its easy to over-run and testing is important too."

Indeed. Like many people here, I have other issues and it's not always easy to know what can be attributed to the different issues so we can't always go by how we feel.

[wellness1 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Indeed SeasideSusie , and so many pieces to the puzzle. The adrenals are quite tricky and I'm left wondering (both generally and in my own case) if it isn't one of these other factors, rather than the adaptogens themselves or in concert. As you and Hidden discussed, it's nuanced. I hope you get on well with the Adrenavive. I'd be interested to hear how you respond. Ady_P, I hope you're also seeing improvements in your health.