Is this a sign of too much ACE or need more?

[mamajamma256]

I, unfortunately, had a severe adrenal crash and i am trying to get myself out. I am very low in the morning and very low at noon. High at night. I am using Seriphos at night, I am suffering terrible insomnia. Not sure if from night high or morning lows. Hydrocortisone is not an option for me. ND started me in thorne ace, 3 in the morning and 2 at noon. Funny thing, even if I haven't slept... I dont feel awful in the morning. I mean I am can function but it isn't great either. When I take the ace, about an hour and half later. My head feels funny, lightheaded.. Kinda dizzy with pressure. I can't decide if I need more ace or maybe it's too much. Any thoughts?

[mamajamma256]

I should note, all docs and ND won't start NDT til my adrenals improve. Right now my Rt3 is 27...not good.... Ft3 is 2.6 and ft4 is 1.72. Just so unhappy that this happened.

[greygoose in reply to mamajamma256]

Have you got the ranges for those, please? The results are meaningless without the ranges.

[mamajamma256 in reply to greygoose]

Sorry,

TSH 1.15 range 0.27 - 4.2 uIU/mL

Free T4 1.72 range. 9 - 1.7 ng/dL

Freet T3 2.6 range 2.5- 4.3 pg/mL

Reverse T3 27 ng/dL range 5-25 ng/dL

I can also post saliva cortisol test if necessary.

Thanks for any advice.

[greygoose in reply to mamajamma256]

OK, so your rT3 is high because you have too much unconverted T4 in your system. Are you taking levo at the moment? If so, how much?

Your low T3 is probably the cause of your adrenal problems.

I'm not too sure what you mean by ACE. Is this it?

thorne.com/products/dp/adre...

If so, you're taking a rather large dose, which could be causing your symptoms. And, if your cortisol is high in the evening, I'm not sure it's a good idea to take the supplement in the afternoon.

There are other things you can do for your adrenals. Makes sure you get plenty of vit C, and B vits. And don't skimp on the salt! Adrenals need salt. Makes sure you have a high protein breakfast as soon as you get up. Adrenals need lots of protein. And, another way you can help them is to have regular habits : always go to bed and get up at the same time.

Do post your cortisol results, and let's have a look. I think your doctors might be wrong about not starting you on some form of T3 until you get your adrenals sorted, because some T3 might just help them get sorted.

[mamajamma256 in reply to greygoose]

Greygoose....

Everything you are saying makes sense.... Yes it is Thorne ace.... I am tempted jot to take it because it's either not enough or I need more. I am taking a total of 150 mg at 6:30 am when I get up and around 11 or so I take 100 mg. That's it for the day. I am not taking anything for my thyroid.

I will post my saliva cortisol results. I am doing all the things you suggested as far as diet. That's why maybe I am thinking I don't need the cortex or just way less.

Thank you again.

[mamajamma256 in reply to greygoose]

Cortisol results.... Zrt lab

2.7 range 3.7-9.5ng/mL

1.2 range 1.2-3.0 ng/ml

1.1 range 0.6 - 1.9 ng/ml

1.1 range 0.4 - 1.0ng/ml

[mamajamma256 in reply to mamajamma256]

When I look at this.... I know it's bad but I think I am taking too much.

[greygoose in reply to mamajamma256]

Yes, i think you're taking too much. You're taking 5 tablets, and it says to take maximum 3

Your early morning cortisol is very bad, yes. But afternoon and evening not so bad. I've seen far worse!

With such bad conversion, I'm not sure that NDT is the right thing for you. And you don't need levo, because your FT4 is already over-range. Try suggesting to your doctors that they just give you a little T3 - a trial, perhaps - just 5 mcg. Take it at night, and see if it helps raise your cortisol in the morning. Taking a little T3 should take some of the strain off your adrenals, and with all the other measures you're taking, it should help them enormously.

[mamajamma256 in reply to greygoose]

Greygoose..... I didn't think cortex was that powerful? Should I just cut back or stop it completely? Maybe cut the morning to 2 and see how I feel at lunch? I will talk to my doc about T3. Taking at night... Not heard of that. I heard of getting up very early to take it like 3 am? This is very interesting, in some groups I see people take 4 or 5 cortex at a time.... Could be tho like you said.... I have other things I place to support adrenals... Maybe the cortex is over kill?

[greygoose in reply to mamajamma256]

Not necessarily over-kill, but given that on the bottle it says to take one to three a day, I think five is a bit much.

Plenty of people take their T3 - and other types of thyroid hormone - before bed. But, if you regularly get up at 3 am for the loo, take it then. But, the problem is, what if one night you don't wake up at 3 am? When do you take your hormone? In your case, you can't take it when you get up, because you need to eat when you get up. So, maybe better to taking it before you go to sleep, is safer.

[Barrister]

Why is hydrocortisone not an option? Have you had a short synactin test?

Clemmie

[mamajamma256 in reply to Barrister]

Hi Clemmie, I dont have a supportive doc for HC. I am also not interested in weaning off of it. Sometimes I wonder if I should not take the ACE and see how I feel? Conflicting info.....is it food for adrenals or is there some miniscule amount of HC in it?

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Would strongly suspect you have low vitamin D, folate, ferritin and/or B12

Your not converting T4 to T3

Do you have Hashimoto's (high thyroid antibodies)

Typical post showing this problem

Low vitamins causing low TSH high FT4 and low FT3

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Here's why

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[mamajamma256 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks... My d need work. I am at 26 for that. My b12 is 563. My iron labs are a bit high except for my ferritin which is low at 26.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to mamajamma256]

Then you need to get these optimal

Are you in UK? Vitamin D units are different abroad

[mamajamma256 in reply to SlowDragon]

No, I am in the states. I am working on my liver health. Vitamin D I am getting thru cod liver oil and the sun. I will have to get b12. As far as the iron.... Only my ferritin is low, my other iron labs are a bit high. If I take iron, won't that increase my already high labs?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to mamajamma256]

Here's conversion calculator

endmemo.com/medical/unitcon...

Here in UK we say aim for around 100nmol

That's at least 40ng/ml

[mamajamma256 in reply to SlowDragon]

No hashi's. Antibodies negative and thyroid ultrasound negative.

[Heloise]

Just a bit of info to add. vitamin D levels need to be between 50 to 70 ng/mL for thyroid receptors to respond properly. Iron also plays an important role in thyroid hormone synthesis. Thyroid peroxidase activity depends on iron; therefore, iron deficiency could lead to hypothyroidism. Ferritin levels may need to be in the range of 90-110 to achieve proper thyroid function [Source: Paoletti].

[LAHs]

What is ACE? Before you use an acronym spell it out, like this: Total Thyroidectomy (TT). You may then use TT throughout your report. And while we are on the subject, what is ND? NDT?

[mamajamma256 in reply to LAHs]

Sorry, wrongly assumed everyone knew the acronyms...ACE = adrenal cortex extract, ND = naturopathic doctor NDT= natural desiccated thyroid

[helvella Administrator in reply to mamajamma256]

mamajamma256,

Even with the use of my substantial Abbreviations and Acronyms document, the acronym ACE is not clear as there are (at least) three regularly used meanings.

dropbox.com/s/og3lmxa1dqadb...

Thanks for posting what you meant.

[LAHs in reply to mamajamma256]

Thanks, got it.

[C70rol]

I also had an adrenal crash last Autumn. Had cortisol levels tested after vitamin/mineral tests and thyroid tests came back o.k.

My cortisol (saliva). results were very low in the mornings. So I took 2 and then 3 Thorne ace a day for a couple of months but got no better.

Went to see Dr P who said Thorne was one of the weakest of the cortex tablets. So he put me on Adrenavive (which were too strong for me), but now I'm on Nutri Adrenal. They are certainly stronger than Thorne, as I have extra heavy heads and woosy for the1st week of each increase. But I definitely notice a difference from the Thorne capsules,.

I also had to reduce my thyroid meds as I was getting palpitations at night.

I'm still not right yet but I think I'm getting there!

I wish you well ! I have experienced a horrible journey !!!!!

[mamajamma256 in reply to C70rol]

Thanks for the reply. Nutri adrenal? Is the cortex only? I am thinking of resting and see where I am at. My diet is really good and I am not under any stress at the moment. Had acupuncture and been meditating. Maybe things have changed and I don't need anything.

[C70rol in reply to mamajamma256]

Oops just realised you're in the U.S. Nutri Adrenal is a cortex sold in the U.K. I was told by my 'specialist', not to take my 2nd dose of cortex later than 11-12pm, as it could affect sleep. And if you had an adrenal crash I wouldn't just stop the cortex as from my experience the adrenals don't heal overnight .

If 3 of the Thorne is enough, then just take 2 in the morning and one before lunch. This wasn't enough for me. I was on that dosage for 2 months and it didn't make any difference to my exhaustion, insomnia, anxiety and lowness of mood ! So I had to take a cortex tablet/capsule that was stronger.

All the best !

[pinkjess17]

Sounds like your taking too much, Thorne cortex do have a small amount of cortisol in them. Admins on an adrenal forum I go on reckon about 1-1.5mg hydrocortisone per capsule. If I were you I'd cut back to 1 or 2 on waking and 1 at lunch and go from there. If you take your temperature before and after each dose it should rise. If your on too much if will fall, a good way to see how much you need. Hope this helps.

[mamajamma256 in reply to pinkjess17]

Pinkjess17! This really helps. I am a temperature checker all the time. This morning I got up and almost took nothing but I didnt want to shock my body anymore than it's already been thru. So decided to take 2. I was up and around in the kitchen before I took anything and my temp was 96.43. At 8am I took the 2 and my temp a half later is at 98.39. Still might be too much.... Tomorrow might just do 1 in the am and 1 at noon. Can I ask what forum? I have often wondered if anyone had an idea of how much if anything is actually in thorne cortex.

[Angel_of_the_North]

I found that seriphos gave me insomnia after the first month or so. Great to start with then not so good.

[mamajamma256 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Yes Angel....i am not sure if it is helping or hurting... I am going to give it a few more nights and then maybe just stick with magnesium and valerian? Out of ideas of ways to lower night cortisol...