Adrenaline surges. Reposting.

[mb008]

Hello, reposting again today as I didn't receive any answers. Hoping someone can tell me how to interpret what's going on... fingers crossed!

Thanks

--------------------------------

Hi there,

I'm on low dose Levo and have been trying to raise to 50mcg. A few days in and I can feel some negative effects.

In particular I am getting a real slump in the afternoon (around 3pm) where I can barely keep my eyes open. I tried to nap today, but I started to get adrenaline surges which jolted me out of my semi-sleep. I have definitely been more jumpy overall recently as well.

I've had this before (used to happen in the middle of the night) which was frightening and so I reduced my Levo then and tried to support my adrenals. A cortisol saliva test showed at the time that all 4 measures were elevated. I drank a lot of Tulsi tea and tried some Adrenavive II but didn't get on with it.

Anyway, a couple of months later (April) my cortisol readings showed that I had reduced my previously high levels except at the 3 pm reading.

My questions are:

- How do I reduce cortisol for one high reading when others are in normal-ish range?

- Does the adrenaline surge show that my adrenals aren't happy and that I need to support them more?

- If I do need to support adrenals,, do I reduce back on the Levo?

To be honest, despite all my reading, I still don't 'get' the adrenal part of this. puzzle.

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks

M

[fibrolinda]

Being shouted to hurry as about to go out but quickly my high and lows were finally sorted by HOLY BASIL EXTRACT 500 MG once or twice a day. Will try to get back to you later foggy brain allowing

[QUE6T-33 in reply to fibrolinda]

Hi fibrolinda - regarding Holy Basil, which you say regulated your Cortisol highs & lows. Did it have any affect in your DHEA levels please ?

[fibrolinda in reply to QUE6T-33]

Just by memory which is risky 🙄 no not much but my DHEA was okay t begin with. X

[QUE6T-33 in reply to fibrolinda]

Ok, thanks 😋

[startagaingirl]

Hi - just looking at your previous post, I see that you need to get your folate up and I can 't see a result for vit d - do you have one? Deficiencies in nutrients can cause difficulty in using levo and it could just be that you are particularly sensitive to that. As you have been supplementing b12 have you been taking a multi b as well to balance all those out?

I am asking this because your adrenal picture looks to be just one of fatigue caused by an under-medicated thyroid, rather than anything more involved. But I see you are having trouble raising levo. I suspect the slump is just the normal fatigue associated with under-medication and will subside once you are on optimum meds. It does take a while for the body to convert and then absorb each dose increase and if you are sensitive you can have some effects for the first couple of weeks.

I would address those nutrient deficiencies and stick it out with the dose increases. Chances are good that your adrenals will then sort themselves.

Gillian

[mb008 in reply to startagaingirl]

Thanks Gillian. I am using a b complex but only started that recently. My Vit D was low at previous reading and I have been supplementing 5000 iu daily.

Can I ask how you figured that it is under medicated thyroid that's causing issues? Useful to know how to look at results myself in the future.

Your post has made me feel better so thank you. Adrenaline surges are quite frightening when you don't know what's causing it.

Thanks again

M

[startagaingirl in reply to mb008]

Hi - when the body doesn't have enough thyroid hormone to keep it going, the adrenals will step in to try and compensate by pumping out extra cortisol to try to keep you functioning, moving, upright when required, etc. Your pattern - when used against the profile given by humanbean below- shows only slightly high in the middle of the day. We have seen some patterns here that are much more seriously out of whack than yours. Also the fact that your DHEA is mid-range, showing no serious underlying issue. Overall, none of your figures are badly out either.

I am guessing that you are taking levo at night and are fairly active through the day with less activity in evening? Hence your adrenals are compensating through the day - as you say you get a slump mid afternoon - but then can can't keep going to raise your evening level. To me that shows you start to run out of the active t3 (converted from your levo) during the day ie. you don't have enough in your system to carry on through.

I don't believe you have anything seriously wrong, you just may be slightly more sensitive than most to nutritional deficiencies and dose rises. Have you considered raising your levo more slowly? Maybe consider cutting tablets and doing 37.5 per day for a while instead of 50, or 25/50 on alternate days. It will take a bit longer to get there, but maybe cause less disturbing symptoms on the way.

Yes adrenaline and cortisol can produce funny effects and they definitely aren't nice at the time. They are common with under-treated hypo and most do settle on their own once thyroid is close to optimum.

Good luck

Gillian

[mb008 in reply to startagaingirl]

Hi

I take my Levo first thing in the morning but always lose energy mid afternoon. I thought that only happened on NDT hence people splitting doses. I know I have to increase dose but I just can't get there. I'll persevere. Thanks again for such a thoughtful response. M

[humanbean]

Optimal levels for cortisol are given on this link :

rt3-adrenals.org/cortisol_t...

Optimal levels

• Morning at the top of the range

• Noon approximately 75% of the range

• Evening close to 50% of the range

• Nighttime at the bottom of the range

Compare your results to the optimum results :

Sample 1 : Optimal : 9.30 --- Yours : 9.08 --- as a %age --- Yours is 97% of optimal

Sample 2 : Optimal : 2.385 --- Yours : 3.26 --- as a %age --- Yours is 137% of optimal

Sample 3 : Optimal : 1.12 --- Yours : 1.41 --- as a %age --- Yours is 126% of optimal

Sample 4 : Optimal : 0.3 --- Yours : 0.22 --- as a %age --- Yours is 73% of optimal

Totals : Optimal : 13.105 (Ref range : 4.09 - 15.05) --- Yours : 13.97 i.e. 107% of optimal

[I don't like the reference range given for sample 4. Theoretically it accepts a level of zero as healthy, and I don't think that could possibly be healthy for anyone. When I had saliva testing done a while ago the reference ranges were different. The lower limit for sample 4 was one third of the upper limit. So I've used the same proportions to get a lower limit for sample 4 of 0.3. If you don't like that idea you can obviously change it for yourself and re-do the arithmetic. ]

For some advice on how to interpret saliva tests which also covers DHEA, see this :

functionalmedicine.net/pdf/...

When your total production of cortisol is compared to the optimal total, yours is really very good, so any treatment you want to try should be conservative. Mostly you are trying to slightly reduce the cortisol at the times of sample 2 and 3, and trying marginally to increase it at the times of sample 1 and 4

I can suggest some things for you to research but I can't tell you definitely "this will work" or "do XYZ" - I'm not a doctor. :

1) "supplements for adrenal support"

2) "adrenal cocktail" - very popular and supposed to be good for the adrenals - there are lots of recipes but they don't differ that much, and are mostly very simple.

3) Another suggestion - eat a small snack close to bedtime which consists of complex carbs, to reduce the risk of low blood sugar during the night, which would really screw up your cortisol.

4) Go to this link : stopthethyroidmadness.com/s...

scroll down to the section on "Adrenal Information" and read the links.

5) You should probably avoid adrenal supplements like Adrenavive. They will increase your cortisol, and possibly your adrenaline. If you want to try them then take a small dose when you get up, no later. If you can slightly increase your cortisol first thing in the morning then you might find samples 2 and 3 will drop.

6) Info on Adrenavive : the-natural-choice.co.uk/do...

7) You could try Holy Basil supplements, say an hour before sample 2 was done and an hour before sample 3 was done. You wouldn't need a high dose and you probably wouldn't need it for very long. I take this one but there are plenty of others to try :

healthmonthly.co.uk/swanson...

8) If you try both Adrenavive and Holy Basil I would try them separately.

[mb008 in reply to humanbean]

Wow, what an amazing response. Thanks so much. Really grateful.

Am I correct in understanding that we treat each reading/sample result separately? So if high then treat accordingly around the time the saliva was taken? And treat differently for a low reading? We can't treat high and low readings together? Ie. There isn't a supplement to stabilise cortisol for entire day?

[humanbean in reply to mb008]

What sometimes happens is that doing something which affects one reading will change levels at other (usually later) times of day.

Unfortunately it seems to be trial and error, and the fact that you are trying to make fairly subtle differences actually makes it harder to suggest what you should do.

I do wonder if your night time adrenaline surges suggest you have adrenal issues at night. But if you did, and were tested during the night, I don't know what the optimal levels of cortisol are during the night.

I would definitely suggest you start by trying to follow suggestions online for "adrenal support" vitamins and minerals. And also try the adrenal cocktail if you can stomach it. (I couldn't cope with the salt - I just wanted to puke...)

Something you might find interesting - it's less than 4 minutes long :

vimeo.com/3818805