I have suffered severe stress from age of 5 and depression was diagnosed 21 years ago at the age of 45. I have been on anti depressants since then. Later on, around the age of 50, I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and initially put on levo 50mg. This was increased after a few months to 75mg as still not feeling well. I was on this dose for approx. 15 years. My hair has thinned out and you can see my scalp on top of head.
I lost my mother 12 months ago and have been going through more stress as my wonderful companion, my border collie, Lady, was diagnosed with terminal kidney failure. Months later I seemed to be suffering from high cortisol(researched on web) as I could not sleep, was losing control of my temper, my memory was really failing and I was not in control of what I was talking about. I would lose my train of thought halfway through a sentence. Visited a GP in my practice who suggested CFS and I disagreed. she tested for T4 and 3 and Hashis but all came back within range. However my thyroid had suffered and she increased my dose to 100mg. Thyroid results looking good now. After taking advice from this website, I decided to test myself through Genova Labs for Adrenal stress profile. I have posted the results complete with ranges. I have seen an endo. privately who has tested me for cushings disease via a blood test and that came back with cortisol at 47. He wanted it at below 50 nmol/l to rule out cushings. He sent a letter to GP that if this was the case, I should just carry on with the therapy I was getting for sexual abuse which was ignored by my narcissistic mother. In other words if it's not cushings, it doesn't matter.
I am not feeling as tired as I was before GP increased levo to 100mg but I still get very tired easily, cannot get out of bed in the mornings, lack motivation in all aspects of life, ache all over and do not feel any joy etc. etc.
I have visited another GP in my practice and explained that maybe I am suffering from pregnenolone steal as a result of low DHEA and he said he had never heard of it but would research it!!??!! He asked me what I expected the NHS to do about my concerns as he said he did not hold out any hope that the nhs endo. would consider these results important enough to put me on his waiting list at all. I came away feeling absolutely defeated, hopeless and as if I am bashing my head against a wall.
I have read that low dhea can cause major health problems and I already have rheumatoid arthritis, osteoporosis and major depression. I had a dreadful upbringing and most of my life revolved around my dysfunctional family, now they are no longer alive, I feel as if I cannot move on due to the health problems I am experiencing. I am now 66 and would like to do some travelling but without medical help to feel better, I am unable to do so. I do not mind paying to see someone who could help me but finding and endo who can, seems to be impossible. I think I have wasted money in seeing an endocrinologist who has failed to help me already. Please can someone advise me in which direction I should go. If anyone knows someone, even if it is in Harley Street, I would willingly go and pay his/her fees to feel better than I am at the moment. Thank you so much for reading my post.
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When low thyroid is not adequately treated it can - over time - put a big stress on the adrenals. Perhaps this has happened to you and that the depression you were suffering all those years ago was indeed low thyroid.
Also LOW B12 - Folate - Ferritin - VitD can also have similar effects on mood and wellbeing. Have they been tested ? - and do you have the results ?
Someone with knowledge about Adrenals will be along soon to assist.
You can contact LouiseRoberts at Thyroid UK - she has a list of Endos/docs who are thyroid friendly.
Do post the Thyroid results with ranges - perhaps we can see if there is a need for an increase. Perhaps your T3 is low. rwt3.com
The problems of depression being hypo and having adrenal stress ( physics or mental) are usually all linked together with vitamin deficiency.
If it's ok it would be helpful to know your thyroid or if you have had any vitamins tested. Vit d b12 folate and ferritin especially. If not I'd suggest having them done through blue horizon which cost about £99 . If you are deficient it needs to be corrected asap. If you read dr Mercola fat soluble vitamins he writes that vit d deficiency alone can cause depression- I will send you the link.
Yes you are spot on you should be taking pregnenelone for the mid afternoon drop. See drmyhill.co.uk. and search adrenal gland. I buy mine from puritans pride. My dhea was 0 and I take 50 mg sublingual . Just be aware it should be prescribed by a specialist but since v few have heard of it I think you would waste cash looking for some one. And yes it can be life threatening if it reduces lower.
Higher than normal cortisol( yours is consistently elevated but thankfully not off the chart) you will feel anxious though. Reducing cortisol is harder to do than increasing it.
Mine was helped once I took the pregnenelone but I now drink tulsi tea and adaptagens are fab. Holy basil amongst others helps.
You need time for just you - no stress( easy to say) consider if you are well enough to do Pilates or things just for you. Also hard as negative people need to be left on the side lines.
Many people have depression and exhaustion due to lack of a balanced thyroid adrenal gland and being low in essential vitamins. Eat as well as you can. Do you have allergies to food? Absorbtion issues?
Sleep is always affected with high cortisol- you can wake feeling wired or just not get off. It may well have to be addressed too. But I'd suggest you go down the adaptagens route like motherwort and astragalus first.
The antidepressants can mess up your thyroid and adrenals but you may have to adjust meds accordingly to how you feel.
It's only my opinion as someone who has been there but sometimes you have to change many things to achieve good health.
I am only just realising how much childhood abuse still affects us now. I'm currently reading Pete Walker's Complex PTSD: from surviving to thriving, which has been a bit of an eye opener and made me cry. I fear that until we address the emotional problems and mental programmes we've been left with we're going to keep having a lot of these health problems.
There's a Facebook group for children of narcissistic mothers which I understand is really helpful.
I'm afraid you won't get much help from the NHS, as you've already discovered I think, but you've come to the right place here.
Holy Basil helped me with lowering my cortisol which I think is my key problem to resolve as I'm not sure how successfully the thyroid is treated with big adrenal imbalances. I'm not taking it at the moment as I've started seeing Sam Shohet (he's in Woking and Harley St) who has taken me off all the supplements I was taking (apart from my probiotics, and vit C) but it's early days so I can't say yet if his treatment is working better.
Hi Dina7 - you don't say how long you were taking Holy Basil, but wondered as it helped lower elevated Cortisol - did you find it helped improve level of DHEA ?
It's hard to get these adrenal charts interpreted, you can find a bit on the website Stop The Thyroid Madness. I've been working on my adrenals off and on for a couple of years.
Overall I think yours is good news. The shape of the graph is very important, and yours is perfect (it's possible to have one or more of the points enormously out of shape, like the early morning or late night very high or very low). Technically this is high cortisol, but I think this is the least bad it can be.
Messing around with prescription drugs for high cortisol can disrupt the whole systems, whereas things like Holy Basil can be better. Sometimes there are small discussions of this on the forum that you might be able to find with the search.
My hunch is that you might do better to make sure your thyroid dosage is optimal, and also the 4 vitamins people recommend for thyroid: Vit B12,vit D, folate, and ferritin. Your symptoms sound very much like hypothyoid. If you have any blood test results for these, post them in a new thread and you will get advice. Doctors tend to know nothing about thyroid. You mention 'in range', with thyroid that is very unlikely to be enough to get you well, you need to be high in the ranges (same for vitamins, the rule of thumb is to have them halfway up the range).
Thank you everyone for your advice, will try to get thyroid results but I gave my latest results to private endo who specialises in thyroid and he said results were now perfect. I was told bu gp from a former test that T3 was perfect too!
I will not let this rest and I am determined to feel better.
Yes, we need to see your thyroid results. FT3 and FT4, and do you have Hashimoto's? We need to see your antibody tests. There is no doubt that you should be on a comprehensive supplement plan, and that should include adaptive herbals like rhodiola that support the adrenals. The other adrenal issue (that nobody seems to know about) is that low protein can goad the adrenals into keeping you awake, as I learned from personal experience. BTW, why don't you just go on a low dose of DHEA? I use 25mg Douglas DHEA daily, along with my thyroid; a dose of 10-15mg daily would probably be appropriate for most females above 60. The idea with DHEA is to restore your DHEA-S blood level to that of, say, a 35-year-old. Your cortisol daily rhythm looks quite normal, other than that your level is too high; did the test you take, show you what the value is in the wee hours, say around 0200?
Hi, i have been considering trying either pregnenolone or dhea myself but have been frightened because people say you must do so under medical supervision. Gp tested "iron" and i take 5mg weekly folic acid because i am on 10mg weekly of methotrexate. Eddie, i have read one should start pregnenolone and dhea on very small doses. Where would i get these from and would u recommend me just trying them without gp assistance?
It's a shame that doctors have control over hormones in most western countries. So long as you dose at a biologically-appropriate level, it's quite safe. Problem is, some people overdose and then get in trouble. There are antiaging docs out there who recommend that males keep their DHEA-S in the 300-400 mcg/dl range, and I find a daily 25mg dose puts me there. The recommended range for females would be lower, although I don't know offhand what it would be. The Quest Diagnostics range for a 35-yo female is 23-266; aiming for the top of that range should be a good target.
I have found very few MDs (including many endos) know much about hormones, and even fewer know anything about lower-level hormones from the thyroid or adrenal. (Of course, they do like to push estrogen and testosterone, because those are money makers. :()
As I said, your regular doc probably doesn't know much about hormones. There are a lot of videos and books out there which help patients with this sort of thing; you can gain confidence in how to use hormones, by getting yourself a couple relevant books. You can find some materials, like the hormone cascade chart, via internet search. There is probably even something on youtube, although not of high quality.
I'm in the USA; I buy the Douglas brand of micronized DHEA from PureFormulas.com. This company makes DHEA tabs in both 5mg and 25mg strengths. I would suggest you get a DHEA-S test before starting, then go on a low dose of 5mg and see how you feel, and re-test after being on it at least a month.
I don’t know enough and am not confident enough to advise someone else how to treat their own high cortisol, but your adrenal stress results are similar to mine, although my cortisol was even higher on all four points. My DHEA is also extremely low. I have Hashimoto’s and other auto-immune diseases and health issues, and was on anti-depressants for most of my adult life.
I have relied on my private nutritionist to help me as my GP was totally disinterested in any of it. My GP said I clearly didn’t have Cushing’s as I didn’t have other symptoms (not that he even checked or asked anything), I don’t know why I even bothered seeing him about it. I have little faith in doctors any more. I think it needs someone “properly medical” to address low DHEA, my nutritionist was going to take advice on it, but I’m not sure about it to be honest.
I have been taking Phosphatidyl Serine to reduce the cortisol, and was also taking Zen for a while. I know others take Holy Basil.
I started self-medicating with T3 just over a year ago, as well as taking prescribed levothyroxine. I don’t know what your T3/T4/TSH results are, but I don’t trust any doctor who tells you “normal” or “in range”. It’s WHERE in range which is all-important. Like others have said, getting all the usual things like vitamins B12, D, etc. optimal is also extremely important. I get mine privately tested these days, and take appropriate supplements.
I have had multiple nutrient deficiencies and gut issues, so have drastically changed my diet and take a pile of supplements.
The symptoms of high cortisol were horrendous and debilitating. I have worked very hard to reduce the stress in my life, and have learned to pace what I do, and am kinder to myself. Addressing historic stress has been immeasurably harder, I had a lot of therapy in my younger years to help me deal with issues, but it always simmered away to be honest. I have to say that getting my Hashimoto’s optimally treated (although it is a constant work-in-progress) has been the most life-changing event, and my whole way of thinking is much more positive, and very very different since doing so. I try not to feel bitter about all the years I battled with depression and gut issues, and the fobbing-off I had by doctors.
It’s easier said than done, but try not to stress out about it all. I made small changes, bit by bit, and it all slowly started working. You absolutely CAN get things sorted out though.
Thank you Beansmummy for your reply, I have a few results but surgery could not find my free T3 or hashis results, so I had these blood tests requested today and hopefully by the end of week I will have all necessary results and will be able to update on these.
So the lab didn't test t3 as requested by nurse in surgery but free t4 was 19.6 yesterday and range is 11-25. Tsh 0.34 (range0.27-4.20). These results seem ok to me so i think i should try self medicating with either dhea or pregnenolone? Any advice on where i can obtain these please?
I don't know anything about those, but it's probably worth writing a new post to ensure as many people see it as possible, as they may miss it as it's tagged onto this post.
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