Are these results ok? I feel terrible

[Steni]

Just taken me 3 attempts to post this, I'm so muddled. I just came out of my first NHS appointment with a young fellow who said I was 'Fine' am I ?

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Steni How do you feel?

I'm surprised he didn't freak out at your TSH result, many doctors would.

Your FT4 is a fair bit lower than 3 months ago. Are you still taking 150mcg Levo?

Did you question your high neutrophils and low GFR?

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

I feel appalling, so tired, asleep on my feet. Fatter than ever of course, sluggish, constipated the usual. What should he have been concerned about?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

Most doctors seeing a TSH that low would say you're overmedicated and reduce your dose. But your low FT4 shows that you are not overmedicated and if your FT3 had been tested I bet that would be very low too, again indicating that you are not overmedicated.

How are your levels of

Vit D

B12

Folate

Ferritin

You say in another thread that you have Hashi's. Are you strictly gluten free and supplementing with selenium L-selenomethionine 200mcg daily to helpreduce the antibodies?

[humanbean in reply to SeasideSusie]

Free T3 was tested.

It was 5.8 pmol/L (3.8 - 6)

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to humanbean]

Oh yeah!!! I have my specs on too!

The FT3 is surprisingly high considering the FT4 isn't much over half way through it's range.

Steni are you supplementing the low ferritin that Clutter pointed out in your thread 3 months ago?

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

I'm not supplementing them as when I asked for information of how to by my doctor they dismissed the idea and said my levels were fine.

I'm really grateful to you for your help.

So I'm going to supplement the Vit D, the selenium and the ferritin.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

The trouble is Steni, doctors know nothing about nutrition​ as they're not taught it. As far as they're concerned as long as something is within the range then it's fine and considered normal.

Look at your ferritin. The range is 15-250. So someone with a level of 15 is considered fine. Someone with a level of 250 is fine and someone with a level of 132.5 (exactly mid range) is fine according to the doctors. But actually, ferritin needs to be half way through it's range and an absolute minimum of 70 for thyroid hormone to work. This is why Clutter told you that optimal is half way through range and suggested that you supplement.

Doctors are very good at keeping us ill, they look at each symptom individually and treat accordingly, they don't connect things. Members on here have far more collective knowledge about thyroid than doctors. And this is why we always suggest vitamins and minerals are tested and suggestions made for supplementing where there are low levels. Also why we sometimes suggest getting thyroid tests done privately, because the important ones aren't usually done by the NHS.

With Vit D supplements there are important cofactors needed which you can read about here

vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

Something else doctors don't tell you - D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems.

D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day.

Magnesium comes in different forms, check here to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds (D3 four hours away from thyroid meds too).

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

Check the other cofactors too.

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

Sorry one more question. What dosage if Ferratin should I take, did they test my levels? Sorry I suddenly got confused again

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

In this post 3 months ago healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... your ferritin level was 38 (15-250). You need to get that up to half way through the range.

You could buy some Ferrous Fumerate (from Amazon, not your local pharmacy) and take one tablet twice daily with 1000mg Vit C each time. Finish the packet (84 tablets) and retest. You will have to test privately as I doubt your GP will do it. Medichecks do a reasonably priced iron status check which includes ferritin, or ferritin on it's now, both the same price.

Once you reach half way through the range you should be able to maintain the level by taking an iron tablet a couple of times a week or by eating liver once a week.

If ferrous fumerate is too harsh or constipates you, try iron bisglycinate such as Solgar Gentle Iron. It has less elemental iron so you'd need to take more, and it is more expensive.

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

What is Neutraphils? He said I was fat due to my lifestyle choices.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

You will need to Google high neutrophils and low GFR, I have no knowledge of them, it's just that they are flagged and I would have thought you might have asked about them.

[mrpenguin in reply to SeasideSusie]

It's not high neutrophils (White blood cells), it's low, it's 1.5.

[Steni in reply to mrpenguin]

Ah, low white cells, so you can guess my question 'is that significant?'

[mrpenguin in reply to Steni]

I wouldn't say it's too much to be concerned about currently.. Do you have previous blood work you can compare it to? You should get another blood test in a month or so to check if its dropped any further then if it has the doctor will have to look into it. I don't know what all you're taking as some drugs can cause it to be lower. You should perhaps google a few of them "drug name" low neutrophils and see what you come up with.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to mrpenguin]

Yes, I see that now, I just saw the 36%. Sorry Steni . But anything that is flagged should be discussed with you, I don't know why doctors don't mention these things.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Steni]

So what does he know about your lifestyle? Nothing, I should think. And does he expect you to be running marathons when you are tired and constipated?

[Steni in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

What I meant to say to him was 'and did you come to this understanding based on your own weight issue' I've told everyone I did say that but I don't really!!

[humanbean]

You can investigate the results of different blood tests using this website - it is worth saving the link :

labtestsonline.org.uk/

Neutrophils are mentioned on this page :

labtestsonline.org.uk/under...

He said I was fat due to my lifestyle choices.

Doctors love blaming patients for as many things as they can. If they blame the patients it cuts their work load.

I've been blamed for loads of things throughout my life. It's a fine, old tradition amongst the medical profession.

[Steni]

I'm feeling scared about the neatrafils, I had a glimpse at the google answers and feel sick 😞

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

Discuss with your doctor, ask him what they mean and why these flagged items haven't been discussed with you. It's your health, you need to be involved. When you have test results in future, check them and question any that are out of range.

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks a lot for today. I got into a state over that stupid appointment and the smug plump 'doctor' but I feel so much better now.

Is there any particular form of Ferratin I should look out for

How much Vit D should I take

Do you think I am converting ok

Thank you again

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

Steni -

FT4 - 14.8 (8.4-19.1)

FT3 - 5.8 (3.8-6.0)

Your FT4 is just over mid range, your FT3 is almost at the top of it's range. If you are taking Levo only there's no problem at all with your conversion.

**

For your ferritin you can buy Ferrous Fumerate (from Amazon, not your local pharmacy who know you). Take one tablet twice daily then when you've finished the packet (84 tablets) retest. You can do a fingerprick iron test with Medichecks for a very reasonable​ price.

Take each iron tablet with 1000mg Vit C to aid absorption and help prevent constipation. Take iron four hours away from thyroid meds and two hours away from any other medication and supplements as it affects their absorption.

Eating liver regularly, maximum 200g per week, also helps raise ferritin. I've just had my weekly liver and onions, fried in butter, with some roasted cherry tomatoes, potatoes and petit pois - delish!!!!

**

Your Vit D needs a boost as it wasn't far off replete (75) and the recommended level is 100-150nmol/L. If it was me, for ease of taking one combined supplement instead of two separate ones, I would take a D3/K2-MK7 combo supplement. Or you could take D3 softgels (look at Doctor's Best) with a separate K2-MK7 supplement.

Take D3 and K2 with the fattiest meal of the a day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems.

Personally I would take 2000iu D3 until you reach the recommended level then maybe reduce to 1000iu daily in the summer, you might want 2000iu daily in the winter as a maintenance dose.

Another cofactor of D3, in addition to the K2, is magnesium and you should take that four hours away from thyroid meds, evening is best as it is calming.

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

So many many thanks.

To confirm your advice then

1. Take Vit D3 as described also magnesium, selenium, Vit C, and Ferratin

2. I am converting fine

3. My tsh is too high so I could drop dose from 175 to 150?

4. Go gluten free?

5. Don't worry about changing to NDT

I think I've got it

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

No, your TSH isn't too high, it's actually below range but that's nothing to worry about (unless you're a TSH obsessed doctor!).

Your FT3 is very close to the top of the range. However it's not over range so I would be inclined to leave your dose of Levo as it is at the moment, unless you feel overmedicated.

I would concentrate on getting all your vitamins and minerals to optimal levels. This is what to aim for

Vit D - 100-150nmol/L

B12 - very top of it's range, even 900-1000

Folate - at least half way through it's range

Ferritin - half way through it's range

If you get all these to their optimal levels, your thyroid hormone will have the best chance of working.

Go strictly gluten free to try and reduce the antibodies.

See how you feel in, say, 4-6 months (you need time for the supplements to improve your levels). NDT can be a consideration further down the line if things don't improve.

I'm not medically trained, these are just my suggestions of what I would be doing in this situation.

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

That's great thank you very much.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

You're welcome. I hope things improve for you

[Hidden in reply to SeasideSusie]

SSUSIE,if steni get her vitamins and minerals right, doesn't she need less levo? she might be overmedicated a few weeks down the trail. i thought i read that in here a while ago?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Hidden]

Who knows Mojas, she'll have to wait and see.

As a long term diagnosed/treated hypo patient I was unwell for many years, eventually discovered all vits and mins were deficient except B12. Plus I wasn't converting well enough.

I got all my vits and mins to optimal levels, added T3 to a lower dose of Levo. In a better place now but when I work out the Levo equivalent of the combined T3 and Levo doses, it's actually more than I was taking when on Levo alone.

It's all trial and error and what works for us as individuals.

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi again,

I'm feeling a lot better, I have bought all the suggested supplements and have rightly or wrongly upped my Levo to 200 from 175 I think I feel better for it but it's only been about a week. One question roughly how many IU's of vitamin D should I be taking?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

Mentioned in my post further up Steni

"Your Vit D needs a boost as it wasn't far off replete (75) and the recommended level is 100-150nmol/L. If it was me, for ease of taking one combined supplement instead of two separate ones, I would take a D3/K2-MK7 combo supplement. Or you could take D3 softgels (look at Doctor's Best) with a separate K2-MK7 supplement.

Take D3 and K2 with the fattiest meal of the a day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems.

Personally I would take 2000iu D3 until you reach the recommended level then maybe reduce to 1000iu daily in the summer, you might want 2000iu daily in the winter as a maintenance dose.

Another cofactor of D3, in addition to the K2, is magnesium and you should take that four hours away from thyroid meds, evening is best as it is calming."

[Steni in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks Susie I knew you'd suggested similar. It I couldn't find it in the thread. Many thanks, I'll post again with my developments, fingers crossed !

[Steni]

Do you agree Susie? Overnight I have been wondering that too. My understanding is that

1. the Levo is obs working because the TSH is at the right level BUT

2. I feel no better because the Vitamins etc are low.

Is that the conclusion ?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Steni]

Steni, see reply to Mojas above. There is no one size fits all, we have to experiment to see what is right for us as an individual. I cannot explain your high in range FT3 compared to your FT4.

Maggie0652 has mentioned adrenals and that could very likely be involved. It was with me to a certain extent but my cortisol wasn't out of range, just high in range, yet my DHEA was rock bottom. I also had extremely low sex hormones. All the hormones are connected - thyroid, adrenals, sex hormones. Everything has to be balanced.

[Maggie0652]

Are you, or have you been, under a lot of stress? If so it could be your adrenals - another area that GPS won't check properly. Adrenal and thyroid function are very closely connected and the symptoms are very similar if the adrenals are struggling.

[Steni in reply to Maggie0652]

I have and continue to be under great stress, what would I do to fix the adrenals?

[Maggie0652]

You can get a cortisol saliva test through the Thyroid UK site either from medichecks or Regenerus (see which one has the best offer at the moment).

You could have low or high cortisol due to stress, but both have similar symptoms to hypothyroidism and will stop your meds from working properly.

There's a very good book on kindle by Dr Eric Berg that goes into a lot of detail about the adrenals and how dysfunction affects the rest of your body. "Adrenal Fatigue: Understanding the symptoms of Adrenal Fatigue". It's very cheap to buy and is excellent information.

Treatment is a combination of rest/relaxation. Reducing stressors in your life and adjusting your diet. There are supplements you can take but that, and whether to exercise would depend on whether your cortisol is low or high.

[Steni in reply to Maggie0652]

Thank you. I am thinking though that as I mentioned after the invaluable help from SSusie that my thyroid mess ARE working at least that's what the tests show it's just that I don't feel like they are in myself.

[Maggie0652]

Yes, they are working to an extent, but it could be your adrenals that are causing your symptoms. If the adrenals are working properly you will feel better on your meds and may even find you can lower the dose and still feel good.

Have a look at the 'Stop the thyroid madness' website. There's a lot of info about the link between thyroid and adrenals.

I had been skipping reading the adrenal stuff, when I did my research, convinced that it was just my thyroid that was making me feel ill. It's in every book and website about thyroid disorder. Then, when I went to the private doctor he tested my adrenals and they were way out.

I also did a timeline of the stressors during my life and the progress of my thyroid disorder and the worst thyroid results tallied with the worst stress.

If you have hashimoto's you might also have adrenal antibodies. Check it out.