Scientific evidence for Hashimoto's?

[njames50]

I am wondering whether there is scientific evidence that if basic thyroid tests are (just) within the normal range, but antibodies are well above normal, you can still feel extremely unwell with Hashimoto's alone, or is the evidence for this only patients' accounts and experience? (i.e., if you were in a court of law and said that Hashimoto's had made you ill in these circumstances, would that stand?) Thanks, and thanks too to all who commented on my previous post.

[Angel_of_the_North]

Considering that the normal range is very broad - esp for TSH and that most healthy people cluster at the low end of the normal range between TSH about 0.7 and 1.2, you could be feeling extremely unwell and BE extremely unwell and still be within the normal ranges for TSH and free T4 (I doubt they did free T3).

[Baobabs in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Yes, many of my friends, family and colleagues including my husband are within the range you quote for t stimulating hormone following general blood test results. One would hope a ‘range’ was based on the norm and yet given what you and I experience this is not the case. I appreciate our sample may be a small one but it still begs the question is the stimulating hormone range based on the norm? Given that in UK they wouldn’t consider treatment under 10 there must be an awful lot of sick under active thyroid people about. I certainly feel much worse when my antibodies rise regardless of stimulating hormone , T4 and T3 levels.

[njames50 in reply to Baobabs]

Thank you. This really is a big concern. Are there any academics or others who speak out on this issue other than the patients?

[njames50 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Thanks so much. They did in fact test free T3 which was normal. What is the difference between free T3 and T3?

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to njames50]

Total T3 is the sum of both free T3 and bound T3. Bound T3 cannot be used by the cells; freeT3 can. This article includes a picture of TSH distribution, which makes it obvious that anything over 2,5 or so is statistically very unlikely to mean that you are healthy. tpauk.com/main/article/tpa-... Most GPs don't understand statitics and don't know that it is not a normal distribution. A TSH of 10 is just stupid and it must cost the NHS a fortune in prescribing for all the hypo symptoms instead of treating the problem.

[SilverAvocado]

Njamess50, unfortunately very very few studies even mention the patient experience of being ill, such as having symptoms You might have more luck trying to demonstrate that such numbers are extremely unlikely in healthy people.

Here's one about distribution of TSH. Although I've seen better, and this is a summary of other studies:

web.archive.org/web/2004060...

Diogenes recently published a paper discussing the meaningfulness of TSH and freeT4. I hope I'm directing you to the right one here:

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

Dr Toft, a big cheese in the endocrine world recently wrote an essay saying the current guidelines are rubbish:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[SilverAvocado in reply to SilverAvocado]

Just realised you mentioned very low free T3 and freeT4, high antibodies, and symptoms. I think even the NICE guidelines recommend treatment of that is the case. Individual GPs are often even more stingy than the guidelines instruct them to be.

[njames50 in reply to SilverAvocado]

Thank you very much for all the information. Really appreciated.

[SilverAvocado in reply to njames50]

I tried to look up the NICE guidelines after making this post, but I couldn't make head or tail of how to find them. They are the guidelines doctors should be following them, but often they don't do it very well. So if you are getting care that falls short of that, you can bring in a copy and argue from that - it's the strongest case you can have, because it's what they're supposed to be following already!

[njames50 in reply to SilverAvocado]

Thanks so much. Will try to find them.

[SilverAvocado in reply to njames50]

I'm sure you will see them linked elsewhere in the forum. Many people here are a lot better w links than I am!